Christians must NOT be be called a sinner!!!

From [url=http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dx8b23s_3gg2ghmcw]No Longer a sinner[/url]

I said, "I [b]WAS[/b] a sinner saved by grace". He then said " Yea but you still sin, doesn't that make you a sinner?"

The fact that we still sin does not make us sinners.
IOW, just because you sin, doesn't mean that you are a sinner.

Some people have a saying which they twist the truth around to suit there theology:
"I'm not a sinner because I sin; but I sin because I'm a sinner".

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

the Suffix "[b]er[/b]"
[b]1.[/b]\t(added to verbs) person or thing that (does the action indicated by verb); used to form an agent noun.
[b]Example:[/b] reader, cooker, computer, runner-up, do-gooder

[b]2.[/b]\t(added to a proper noun) resident or inhabitant of (the place denoted by the proper noun); used to form a [u]demonym[/u] (Ancient Greek (dēmos, “country).
[b]Example:[/b] New Yorker

[b]3.[/b]\t(added to a noun denoting an occupation) person whose occupation is (the noun).
[b]Example:[/b] astrologer, cricketer, trumpeter

[b]4.[/b]\t(added to a number, measurement or noun denoting a quantified set) person or thing ranked by (the number) or having (the measurement or quantified set).
[b]Example:[/b] sixer, six-footer, three-wheeler

Therefore, the truth is we are sinners because we fit under any of the examples below:

Sinners love sin.
Sinners sin habitually.
Sinners practice sin; all of which are based on No.# 1
Sinners are under the dominion of sin, which is based on No.# 2
Sinners employ themselves in sin, which is based on No.# 3
Christians must never relate to any of these!

Hello Fellow Brother/Sister in Christ,

I consider myself a Christian, even though I struggle daily with sin (sometimes a spiteful thought overtakes my thoughts by what seems like force, and I struggle to get rid of it, or my temper flairs up over the smallest insignificant things, like dropping something on the floor, etc). I hate sinning, not just because I can come under judgement for it (God does rebuke His Children), but more importantly, because I love God and wish to never displease Him!

Sometimes it seems like I'm under the dominion of sin, yet I don't want to be in sin anymore! I read my Bible daily, yet the old man nature can become overwhelming, even though I pray and repent, pray and repent. How can I grow further in Christ and finally defeat sin once and for all? How long before I become free from the old man nature?

Thank you for any help you can offer me. :-) God bless!

A good post by the way, because it raised these questions in me.

So true.

If you notice Pauls' greeting in his letters to the churches he addressed them as saints, never written to the sinners at.....

So, are you Saint Logic? Don't you like the ring of it? I am not making sport...it just is something we are not accustomed to - calling each other saints although Greg Gordon does when he addresses the Believers here on SI.

ginnyrose

Hello jmooney6, welcome to Sermonindex. Thanx for replying.

jmooney6 wrote:
sometimes a spiteful thought overtakes my thoughts by what seems like force, and I struggle to get rid of it

Even Jesus had a thought to turn stones into bread when He was tempted in the wilderness. However, He did not entertain that thought; He did not sin.

or my temper flairs up over the smallest insignificant things, like dropping something on the floor, etc).

I hate sinning, not just because I can come under judgment for it (God does rebuke His Children), but more importantly, because I love God and wish to never displease Him!

Sometimes it seems like I'm under the dominion of sin, yet I don't want to be in sin anymore!

I read my Bible daily, yet the old man nature can become overwhelming, even though I pray and repent, pray and repent. How can I grow further in Christ and finally defeat sin once and for all?

How long before I become free from the old man nature?

The "old man" would be the person that Paul was before salvation (the “old man” is [b]who[/b] we [b]were[/b] before).
Our old man (or who we were before we were saved) is the one that walked after the flesh in regards to our former behavior (Eph 4:22), having been corrupted according to the deceitful lusts.

Our soul that was ruled by the flesh & its passions was crucified with Him, that the (whole) body of those passions might be nullified, so that we no longer [b]serve[/b] those passions.
As long as we do not give in, we will not sin.

All sin is always a willful, intentional, volitional choice; it is never an “ooops”.

Thank you for any help you can offer me. :-) God bless!

A good post by the way, because it raised these questions in me.

It irks me every time I hear a Christian say that we are sinners.

[color=990000]The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for [b]SINNERS[/b]...[/color](1Tim 1:9)

If we are still sinner, then the law is for us also.
However, [color=990000]we are not under the[/color] (letter of the) [color=990000]law, but under grace![/color] (Rom 6:14)

Moreover, God says that you can stop sinning by His command not to.
Some people call God a liar by telling Him that they can't stop sinning.
And we know that [color=990000]sin shall not have dominion over you:[/color] (Rom 6:14) meaning that we can stop sinning.

jmooney6 wrote:
Hello Fellow Brother/Sister in Christ,

I consider myself a Christian, even though I struggle daily with sin (sometimes a spiteful thought overtakes my thoughts by what seems like force, and I struggle to get rid of it, or my temper flairs up over the smallest insignificant things, like dropping something on the floor, etc). I hate sinning, not just because I can come under judgement for it (God does rebuke His Children), but more importantly, because I love God and wish to never displease Him!

Sometimes it seems like I'm under the dominion of sin, yet I don't want to be in sin anymore! I read my Bible daily, yet the old man nature can become overwhelming, even though I pray and repent, pray and repent. How can I grow further in Christ and finally defeat sin once and for all? How long before I become free from the old man nature?

Romans 8:12-14 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Ezekiel 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ezekiel 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

Ezekiel 36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

This is just a few scriptures showing what Christ has done for us in the new covenant made everlasting by the blood of his sacrifice for us. God has made a new covenant with us in Christ. The holy Spirit we received at the new birth gave us a new heart and also was put within us to be filled with and walk in, so that we will be able to please God. It is impossible to please God apart from faith in God. We are save by grace through faith. We are kept by the power of God through faith. We are to live in the Spirit and walk in the Spirit of God. We can do nothing of ourselves for we must abide in Christ and be led of his Spirit. It is through the spirit that we mortify the deeds of the body. It is by walking in the Spirit that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

We will all go through trials in this life but God is faithful to his covenant with us in Christ and will not forsake us but will evermore teach us to trust Him completely.

Blessings to you!

Interesting topic. How would you reconcile this with Romans 7:24 and also 1 Timothy 1:15?

I agree with much of your reasoning because I do not believe a true Christian should live in habitual sin. I remember hearing a message by Leonard Ravenhill where he said someone misquoted a verse to him and that verse was 1 John 2:1 and the person said "..when any man sins, we have an Advocate.." Ravenhill said it's not "when", it is "IF". HE stated that the "IF" is important because it should NOT be the norm for the Christian.

The trouble I have with this type of thinking is that I have never encountered a sinless Christian or Saint in my years serving God. Yes, we are Saints through the blood of Jesus but each of us daily deals with sin so in fact we are still sinners at times.. As we get convicted, we daily cry out to Him and provides the Victory but none of us have arrived at sinless perfection. I recently quoted these verses in another topic but the story of the two men who went up to the temple in Luke 18:9-14 comes to mind again. Especially verse 13.. I'd rather keep in mind that I am a sinner in need of his mercy every day then to be seeing myself as a Saint. Also, the more I know Him the more I see how short I fall and the more work that needs to be done in me.

I tend to agree with my pastor here below as far as our continuing struggle with sin and the sanctification process:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-4bJg6sH34]Pleasures of Sin[/url]
Each of us if we are honest realize we are a work in progress. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's okay to sin. Just that when we call ourselves Saints we need to remember it's only by the Blood of Jesus and the work of His Holy Spirit.

My last point: I'm not saying all of you here that consider yourselves Saints do this, but I know of some that see the message of the Cross as just for the unsaved. Basically like the Cross is just the door into the Christian life. In Colossians 2:6 it says "Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him". That tells me that we need to remember how we received Him. We received Him in humility and acknowledgement that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

Hello Saints [yes, sister ginnyrose, it does have a nice ring to it]

Here's my $.0.02:
Dear jmooney6,
I think I understand where you are. You see, as believers, we have a living, breathing enemy, Satan, who's goal is to
a] prevent folks from coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Failing that

b] Prevent the saints from being spiritually productive e.g. growing daily in our experiential knowledge of the Trinity [Eph 1:17 -20, Eph 3"16- 19 etc], growing up and manifesting the fruit of the Spirit [Eph 4:14-16, Gal. 5:22-26]

On top of that the enemy has an ally within us: our flesh i.e. body and unrenewed mind.
The path to victory is two-pronged.
a] In I Cor 9:27. The Lord shows us what to do with our bodies. He gives us grace but He won't discipline our bodies for us.

b] Rom 12:1-2
Notice also, we are to do something here too.
Falling into sin isn't like catching a cold-you know, totally without your consent.

The enemy will come at you using everything in his arsenal, having studied humans for some 6,000 years or so.
Our victory is in knowing how to skillfully wield the Sword of the Spirit [the Word of God] and being sober and vigilant.
Say for instance, I have a problem with thinking unworthy thoughts of a particular person who just manages to always rub me the wrong way. I could
a] resign myself to it and justify it with,'I'm impatient by nature. It's their fault. They just like to push my buttons' Believe me, there are believers like that.
OR

b] realize i'm not walking in love i.e. being short-tempered [contrary to I Cor 13:4]. I would
i] repent
ii]ask the Lord for grace to bear with them
iii] ask the Lord for strategies to practically express love to them
iv] know when to whip out the Word at the devil e.g. Boldly declaare, 'It is written, 'I am a child of God [I John3:1]. I have been given His nature. He is at work in me giving me the desire and ability to do that which pleases Him [Phil 2:13]. I refuse these sinful thoughts. I refuse to dwell on them. In the name of Jesus Christ, begone!'
v] Confess God's word about my new nature in Christ. There was a time we had I Cor 13 up on our fridge, bathroom door, bedroom door, living room walls until some of it sunk in. We've got to put the Word before our eyes...

You might have to stand your ground a few times until the enemy realizes u do believe what u're saying. He'll go off to bother someone else and return another season.

Hope this helps...

It is well.

Tolu

JCGarc55 wrote:
Interesting topic. How would you reconcile this with Romans 7:24

and also 1 Timothy 1:15?

Paul is a righteous man and the law is not made for such, therefore, he is not a sinner.
Or
Paul is lawless, disobedient, ungodly and a sinner, He is also unholy and profane, He is a murderer of fathers and a murderer of mothers, He is a manslayer, a fornicator, maybe a homosexual, He might be a slave trader, a liars, a perjurer...etc...

Paul said that he is chief of sinners out of regret and remorse, not making a doctrine that contradict what he just said in verses 9 & 10.

JCGarc55 wrote:
The trouble I have with this type of thinking is that I have never encountered a sinless Christian or Saint in my years serving God.

Yes, we are Saints through the blood of Jesus but each of us daily deals with sin so in fact we are still sinners at times.

As we get convicted, we daily cry out to Him and provides the Victory but none of us have arrived at sinless perfection.

"say Christians are nor sinless, they just sin less. Well, I got news for you; if you're a Christian, you don't sin! You've got victory over sin! The Lord Jesus Christ came to purify us unto holiness and nothing but purity will satisfy Him!" (LEONARD RAVENHILL)

I recently quoted these verses in another topic but the story of the two men who went up to the temple in Luke 18:9-14 comes to mind again.

I'd rather keep in mind that I am a sinner in need of his mercy every day then to be seeing myself as a Saint. Also, the more I know Him the more I see how short I fall and the more work that needs to be done in me.

I tend to agree with my pastor here below as far as our continuing struggle with sin and the sanctification process:

That main this thread is about calling yourself a sinner.

Each of us if we are honest realize we are a work in progress. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's okay to sin. Just that when we call ourselves Saints we need to remember it's only by the Blood of Jesus and the work of His Holy Spirit.

My last point: I'm not saying all of you here that consider yourselves Saints do this, but I know of some that see the message of the Cross as just for the unsaved. Basically like the Cross is just the door into the Christian life. In Colossians 2:6 it says "Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him". That tells me that we need to remember how we received Him. We received Him in humility and acknowledgement that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

Paul is speaking as in a pre-salvation state.

I had a feeling you probably believed that way. My convictions are more along the lines of David Wilkerson. Have you read "Two of Me"? Specifically chapter 6:
[b] I love to do God's will so far as my new nature is concerned; but there is something else deep within me, in my lower nature, that is at war in my mind and wins the fight and enslaves me again to the sin still in me. ...In my mind I want to be God's willing servant but instead I FIND MYSELF STILL ENSLAVED WITH SIN (Romans 7:22-25 Living Bible). Paul wasn't talking about an experience before accepting Christ--because He states, "I love to do God's will." He also speaks of his "new life" that tells him to do right. That is not the testimony of a sinner. Paul, at one time, fought this battle after his conversion, and he opened to us his inner struggle. It has been the personal battle of all honest Christians.[/b]
As for 1 Timothy 1:15, I've always believed that Paul was acknowledging what he is outside of the redeeming work of Christ and also sharing how God has saved him as an example of His mercy. By the way, I agree of course that he is no longer practicing the sins mentioned in that chapter.

But the Tax collector became saved and stopped employing himself in sin & stopped loving sin and habitually doing it.

Brother how do you know that? It is nowhere in the text. For all we know, he could have gone back to being a tax collector, a justified tax collector, but a tax collector none the less.

I think you're reading into the text something that is not there, it just says that he went to his house justified.

JCGarc55 wrote:

Paul is speaking as in a pre-salvation state.

I had a feeling you probably believed that way.

My convictions are more along the lines of David Wilkerson. Have you read "Two of Me"? Specifically chapter 6:

because we have "freed from sin" as our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed; For he that is dead is freed from sin.(Romans 6:6-8)

[color=990000]Let not sin therefore[/color] (be in bondage under the) [color=990000]reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.[/color] (Romans 6:12-13)

I love to do God's will so far as my new nature is concerned; but there is something else deep within me, in my lower nature, that is at war in my mind and wins the fight and enslaves me again to the sin still in me. ...In my mind I want to be God's willing servant but instead I FIND MYSELF STILL ENSLAVED WITH SIN (Romans 7:22-25 Living Bible).

Paul wasn't talking about an experience before accepting Christ--because He states, "I love to do God's will." He also speaks of his "new life" that tells him to do right.

[b]Rom 7:14[/b] [color=990000]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.[/color]
Christians are not carnal & no longer sold under sin.

[b]Rom 7:15[/b] [color=990000]For that which I do I know not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.[/color]

or IOW: I don't understand what I'm doing. I habitually don't do what I prefer to do, because I habitually do what I hate.

Christians do not habitually sin.

[b]Rom 7:18[/b] [color=990000]For I know that in me[/color] (that is, in my flesh) [color=990000]dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.[/color]

Or IOW: I know that nothing of virtue is in my flesh. However, I am willing to do good (willing to have the right affections), but, I don't know how to do it.

Christians know how to perform that which is good.

That is not the testimony of a sinner.

[quot]Paul, at one time, fought this battle after his conversion, and he opened to us his inner struggle. It has been the personal battle of all honest Christians.Manichaeism Theology (a form of Gnosticism) teaches that mankind is a "battleground" for good & evil: the good part is the soul, and the bad part is the body (flesh) which is composed of Earth (the Earth part is true). The soul defines the person and is incorruptible, but it is under the domination of a foreign power (of the body/flesh)

Are you in a Gnostic religion?

As for 1 Timothy 1:15, I've always believed that Paul was acknowledging what he is outside of the redeeming work of Christ and also sharing how God has saved him as an example of His mercy. By the way, I agree of course that he is no longer practicing the sins mentioned in that chapter.

The word sinner(s) is in the Scriptures 67 times, and not one is describing the righteous. How is it that you think that you are still a sinner if you are a Christian.
How do you define yourself a sinner in my opening post?

roaringlamb wrote:

But the Tax collector became saved and stopped employing himself in sin & stopped loving sin and habitually doing it.

Brother how do you know that?

It is nowhere in the text. For all we know, he could have gone back to being a tax collector, a justified tax collector, but a tax collector none the less.

I think you're reading into the text something that is not there, it just says that he went to his house justified.

Wanting mercy for/from what if he stayed the same?
Was he crying for mercy from his guilt of sin or from the punishment from it?

If it was from the guilt of sin, then he would stop sinning once he found that he got mercy.

If it was only from the punishment from sin, and stayed in his sin, then He still wanted to sin but not have the consequence from it.

Why are you arguing that you are still a sinner?

Just because you sin does not make you a sinner.
I can bark like a dog, but that don't make me a dog.

Only sinners love sin.
Sinners sin habitually.
Sinners practice sin
Sinners are under the dominion of sin
Sinners employ themselves in sin

When you say that your a sinner, you imply that you fall under any of these.

Then he did not stay justified; he was not sincere in his cry for mercy

But again, you are reading into the text what is not there, and this idea is at odds with Paul's words in Romans 8 where he says that those whom God justified were also glorified(all in past tense).

So which is it?

Just because you sin does not make you a sinner. I can bark like a dog, but that don't make me a dog.

Actually yes sinning makes me a sinner. But being justified makes me right with God. My sin nature is not completely removed from me until I am glorified, however there is a new King who wars with the old tyrant.

You are right that barking won't make you a dog, but if there was some change of nature, you could be a dog. Let's go one step further, let's say you were changed into a dog, yet the human part remained. At times, you might walk on two legs because that part of your new nature wasn't matured yet. But quickly, you would realize that it was not fitting with the new nature of being a dog.

See you are overlooking the fact that the old man is still there along with the new man. If this were not so, Scripture would not say to walk according to the new man and not according to the old man, and those words are written to believers, not unsaved people who would only walk according to the old man.

Another point to remember is that there are imperatives(do this) based on indicatives(what has been done) that are used frequently throughout the Epistles and Gospels. This is important to know.

For example, I am American(indicative) therefore I must obey Federal Laws(imperative). BUT I cannot become American by obeying the Federal Law(yes I know about green cards and such, but for sake of this argument use this poor example).

I cannot become a Christian by obeying the imperatives(do this), but rather because I am a Christian(indicative) I obey(imperative).

Hope this helps

The word sinner(s) is in the Scriptures 67 times, and not one is describing the righteous. How is it that you think that you are still a sinner if you are a Christian. How do you define yourself a sinner in my opening post?

Paul's letters were written to the church right? In the letters he addresses sin so obviously the Church and His Saints sometimes fall into sin. If all of us were in a state of sainthood 24/7 after conversion, then Paul wasted a lot of time speaking on topics like immorality and legalism, etc. to the Church.. Why preach convicting messages since were all saints and each of us has done away with our flesh? ...supposedly.

Romans 7 is helpful in that it illustrates to us the struggle of trying to serve God in our flesh and Paul then points us to the victory provided through Christ. Many times I've had failures in areas of the flesh whether it be through laziness, anger and other times with trying to serve Him in my flesh. I could go on and on. I'm not just talking about being tempted either. I've acted out and sinned. Does that make me light on sin? I hope not. I don't believe a true Christian should be in bondage and I'm not in bondage by the way, but I do fall short... but I get convicted and then call on the Lord to forgive and strengthen me in that area and ask for wisdom if anything needs to be done so it does not happen again.

As to my view of myself. I consider myself a sinner called by His grace to be Holy, sanctified and yes, a Saint.

BTW- I just listened to an awesome message by Carter Conlon today. It's called "The Groanings of the Righteous". It's a beautiful message which addresses some of what we are discussing.

Lastly, I hope I'm not frustrating you. I'm trying to understand your view but it's just not confirming. I'll reread it again and prayerfully consider what you are saying. Thanks for your patience. :-)

A Saint keep's God's commandments, a sinner breaks God's commandments.

So how are YOU doing with this?

Do you love God every moment of every day with every thought? and do you love your neighbor as you love yourself(with the same attention to their needs as you pay to yours).

There is a reason why Scripture condemns those who seek to be justified by the Law, because it can't be done.

The Pharisees kept the Law, but weren't saved. Actually, they didn't even understand the fullness of what the Law meant(i.e. the need for God to save man from outside of man).

I know that Ravenhill is kind of an icon here, but that view isn't responsible to Scripture, nor is it in line with the Law and its demands.

The Law demands perfection ALL THE TIME. There is only one way to get this ad that is by faith in the One who is always faithful and who has fulfilled the Law perfectly and having that put to our account as if we really were righteous. That's the Gospel, that God in Christ has done something to be both just and the justifier of ungodly people.