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Britain vs Christianity - coming to America unless we stop it now

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnplayer.swf?aid=9425
- a warning from Britain

My family and I lived in England in the 70's and it was nothing like it is today. I've since returned occasionally and see how it has become anti Christian. They don't have the nerve to become anti Muslim. I've stopped giving to the local PBS station. They air many British programs that go out of their way to state their anti Christianity in ways that have nothing to do with the story line. by rep140

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-404052/How-Britain-turning-Christianity-crime.html

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

"Unless we stop it now".

Why?

Have you ever considered God's will in this matter?

Our position in Christ is not to stop world events from taking place. The great commission is to save that which is lost. We leave the tearing down and the setting up to the Grand Architect..God.

Before every great move of God when you read the history before that sweeping wave of God's power and presence, there is always people saying that "God is dead". Iniquity reaches an all time high, crime is rampant and immorality has stooped lower than it's ever been.

We say, "bring it on", the more the merrier. The greater the sin the greater the grace that God will pour out. In the meantime, love your nieghbour who is anti God, love the Muslim who has no enlightenment of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Do we just stand back and allow things to take place? Absolutely not. When we see in an injustice we pray and make our petitions known unto God, but as for trying to change what God has ordained to take place, we cannot change it. These things are inevitable, they are for our good and especially for His good pleasure. That is why it says, "Thine will be done". We must bend to the will of God even though we don't agree with it.

Believe it or not, but it was God Almighty who wooed the people of the United States to vote for President Barack Obama. We must respect God's decision. Speaking against the President is speaking against God, because God put him there. And we are saying in effect that God doesn't know what He is doing. Therefore, the admonition of the Apostle is to pray for our leaders.

This is hard I know. It goes against the grain. But our citizenship is not here folks. It's in Christ Jesus our LORD. Where He is, it's there we want to be.

W
White_Stone Oct 10, 2009

Dear DeepThinker,

Thanks for the reminder. I believe you are right, it is God's will. I also know how God hates lies and I am filled with righteous anger with the flood of them. At times I may find myself ranting about it. God is working on me, I hope others will be understanding.

The dismay may not be as strong on your side of the border. :-P

kindest regards,
white stone

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 10, 2009

Hi DeepThinker...

Believe it or not, but it was God Almighty who wooed the people of the United States to vote for President Barack Obama. We must respect God's decision.

Of course, this same rationale could be used of EVERYTHING that happens upon the Earth too (good or bad). I do believe that God raises up authorities to disperse justice. Yet, this government in America is one of "consent." The United States is a democratic republic, where individuals are selected by their fellow citizens to be short-term governors (depending upon the term of office) with the notion that they, as good temporary stewards, will "faithfully uphold the laws of the land and the Constitution."

Those same people who vote them into office can also vote them out of office. Likewise, those same individuals are also given an ability to petition their governors and authorities to act on behalf of what they think is right. It is a lot like the story of a persistent widow during Jesus's day who did the same thing with an unrighteous "judge." Perhaps the same God who you say "wooed the people to vote" for a man might also be "wooed" to petition on the side of righteousness?

This is hard I know. It goes against the grain. But our citizenship is not here folks. It's in Christ Jesus our LORD. Where He is, it's there we want to be.
I agree...but I would add that we are ALSO citizens of the land in which the Lord placed us. We are under the government that God placed us. When asked by a Roman soldier who was about to beat him unlawfully whether he was a Roman citizen, Paul did not claim that his citizenship was solely in heaven. Rather, he cited his natural born Roman citizenship (Acts 22:22-29). He later used his "right" as a Roman citizen to "appeal unto Caesar." Of course, Paul used the Roman legal system, traveling along the Roman roads, that were built using taxes paid to Roman authorities, in order to take the Gospel to Rome...and to Caesar's house.

I do understand what you mean, though. Our allegiance is first and foremost to our Eternal King. Yet, I personally don't see anything in Scripture that forbids believers from petitioning or exerting influence on the people and governments around us. The Old Testament is filled with men like Moses, Joseph, Daniel and others who exerted righteous influence upon secular governments. Likewise, John the Baptist spoke to Herod about matters of righteousness -- and later lost his head for it (Matthew 14:3-5). The persistent widow petitioned an unrighteous "judge." In fact, Paul was compelled to present the Gospel to Caesar himself (Acts 27:24 and Acts 28:19), and it appears that he might have been successful (Philippians 4:22).

Yet, I also agree that we should pray for those who are in authority (regardless of whether they are appointed, voted in, or kings and queens). In addition, we should be examples of Christ who do not hide our light under a bushel of religious sectarianism. Like a city on a hill, we cannot and should not be hidden (Matthew 5:14-16). Our hearts, of course, are set apart as belonging to Christ Jesus even as we live in the world and nation that God has not yet taken us out of.

As for England: I have long had a burden for the people in that nation. I have read so many stories about the things that God has done in the past within that nation. I have spoken with old revival ministers from the nation who recall great things that happened years ago. Today, so many in the nation have turned from God.

I know a professor at Oxford who was going to serve as a faculty mentor for me on a scholarship that I was given during my undergraduate study. This professor is so honest in his hostility to the Gospel and even in regard to the very existence of God! I never accepted the scholarship to study there (due to a conflict with the graduate program that I was beginning). However, I have kept in touch with this particular professor. We have carried on long conversations about his professed atheism and the state of faith in his homeland. He admits that England has experienced a moral degradation in accordance with the decline of significance seen in the Christian faith. Slowly, I see God having an impact on his heart. I sent him a couple of books that I thought might help. He has even allowed me to pray for him via the telephone.

While I believe in petitioning the governments of the land into which God placed us, those are limited to legislative edicts that may or may not govern in what is right. What is vastly more important is the hearts of the people in the land. We need a revival! I don't mean a "revival" that is seen almost as a "mystical" thing. We need a great and sudden awakening of people in and out of the Church who quickly realize the futility of life without knowing the one true Living God! We need a waking up of the souls of men...whose hearts will begin to ache with an unquenchable yearning and thirst to know the Lord! We need a sudden realization in the hearts of men everywhere (starting in the Church) that the fleeting pleasures of this life cannot compare even remotely with just a moment spent in pure intimacy with God. We need such a revival!

G
Greenlea Oct 10, 2009

Our position in Christ is not to stop world events from taking place. The great commission is to save that which is lost. We leave the tearing down and the setting up to the Grand Architect..God.

Thank you for the reminder once again that God is sovereign. There is nothing that He is not designing. Nothing!!

Believe it or not, but it was God Almighty who wooed the people of the United States to vote for President Barack Obama. We must respect God's decision. Speaking against the President is speaking against God, because God put him there.

I was reading in Genesis today and came across this passage and it struck me once again that God is the potter we are the clay.

Gen 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance
Gen 45:8 So now [it was] not you [that] sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt

[b]So now [it was] not you [that] sent me hither, but God[/b]

It is God that works all things according to His good pleasure. Even the election of the president.

Believe it or not, but it was God Almighty who wooed the people of the United States to vote for President Barack Obama. We must respect God's decision. Speaking against the President is speaking against God, because God put him there.

Gen 50:20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; [but] God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as [it is] this day, to save many people alive.

Somehow, someway the Lord is working this out for our good. Let us continue to pray for our leaders as Paul commands, for our nation, for our brothers and sisters and what our hands find to do (in the Lord) let us do with all our might.

Blessing!!

C
ChrisJD Oct 10, 2009

"Let us continue to pray for our leaders as Paul commands, for our nation, for our brothers and sisters and what our hands find to do (in the Lord) let us do with all our might."


If I may add something along with this, may we also continue to be salt as well, in whatever part of the [b]earth[/b], or its kingdoms we find ourselves in.

Salt acts as a preservative, keeping things from rotting.


God may certainly have Soveriegn pleasure and delight in working in us to be so, and to do(Php 2:12-15, 1Pe 2:9-17, Luke 19:13).

I
InTheLight Oct 10, 2009

Do we just stand back and allow things to take place? Absolutely not. When we see in an injustice we pray and make our petitions known unto God, but as for trying to change what God has ordained to take place, we cannot change it. These things are inevitable, they are for our good and especially for His good pleasure. That is why it says, "Thine will be done". We must bend to the will of God even though we don't agree with it.

I'm sure glad that this kind of advice wasn't offered to Esther when Haman's wicked plot came to light. Oh yes, there was prayer and fasting, then there was action.

[i]For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father's house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this?"[/i]
(Est 4:14 ESV)

In Christ,

Ron

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

"This is hard I know. It goes against the grain. But our citizenship is not here folks. It's in Christ Jesus our LORD. Where He is, it's there we want to be"

Amen deep thinker........Frank

C
ChrisJD Oct 10, 2009

"Where He is, it's there we want to be"

Amen.


Acts 23:11, 19:21, 25:10-12, 26:32, Is 52:15.

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

Deepthinker you should be a tad more carefull of assuming Gods will and also saying "we" say...

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

I detect a bit of this attitude in you post.

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

Deepthinker, you said,

"Speaking against the President is speaking against God, because God put him there. And we are saying in effect that God doesn't know what He is doing."

Really? huh... I guess Jesus was speaking against God the father when he called Herod a fox.

Luke 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

I hope others don't fall into your narrow view.

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

Really? huh... I guess Jesus was speaking against God the father when he called Herod a fox.

John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I SEEK NOT MINE OWN WILL, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

By calling Herod a Fox, Jesus FIRST heard it from the Father, and then He spoke.

We do not judge by what we see, but what we HEAR the Father say to us. If your not hearing, keep your mouth shut. Lest you find yourself being judged. And that goes for every single one of us, including yours truly.

sermonindex Oct 10, 2009

I'm sure glad that this kind of advice wasn't offered to Esther when Haman's wicked plot came to light. Oh yes, there was prayer and fasting, then there was action.
So we should plot against that wicked Haman? And get a petition from the king to have the Church arm themselves and be ready on a set day to kill anyone who had a thought to kill us?

This is the action that was carried out.

Do you know why Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom was taken from him for the period of seven years? Because he lifted himself up as the sole founder, and yet it was given to him by God. And God made him an example, that it's He that ruleth in the heavens.

Dan 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, [b]till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.[/b]
The Kingdom of Grace and Truth excludes physical violence, plots against our neighbour, we are as dumb sheep ready for the slaughter. Why? Because at the cross we died with Jesus. We are dead and all the lust of vengeance and this flesh has been crucified to Christ.

If Esther was under the New Covenant and she went to the King to tell him all that was happening, she would have done everything that she could to keep Haman from being hanged. Why? Because she is dead with Christ and Haman is not her enemy.

I
InTheLight Oct 10, 2009

So we should plot against that wicked Haman? And get a petition from the king to have the Church arm themselves and be ready on a set day to kill anyone who had a thought to kill us?

Well, with all due respect, you certainly stretched that one to it's limits.

The point is that when an opportunity arises to serve God and our generation, we must not let it slip by.

In Christ,

Ron

G
ginnyrose Oct 10, 2009

I did not read all the posts on this thread, so if someone else said this, I guess that would mean we are of the same mind!

The fact that Islam appeals to the masses has me completely befuddled. Something does not compute. Sharia law (I think it is called) has strong unmerciful penalties against certain sins, like homosexuality, adultery, thievery...Their philosophy concerning females .... why does this religion enjoy such popular appeal to the masses? If Christianity would advocate the penalties that Islam does we would be experience such wide spread oppression....

Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

ginnyrose

sermonindex Oct 11, 2009

ginnyrose,
Islam in America primarly appeals to the prison population secondarly to 'some' in the general population. I would not say that it appeals to the 'masses' in America.
However sometimes a minority can wield power and influence. Then when that minority uses our legal system to get its way,(much like the athiests have done) then it becomes more of a threat to our liberties in America.

Thats what I have seen so far. I do not claim to be all knowing on this subject.

M
MaryJane Oct 11, 2009

Greetings ginnyrose

I have to admit I have wondered the same thing. There is a lady that I see in the grocery store once in awhile. She is white and clearly born here in the United States and yet she dresses in the full garb of the Muslim religion with only a her face showing. I do not understand it at all. Why a woman who is clearly American, raised here would ever embrace a religion that is so hostel toward women. It just does not make any sense to me at all.

God Bless
maryjane

sermonindex Oct 11, 2009

I do not understand it at all. Why a woman who is clearly American, raised here would ever embrace a religion that is so hostel toward women. It just does not make any sense to me at all.
Since we don't know her motive, we can only speculate. In some strains of Christianity there are groups that are hostile towards women. There are women that actually like this type of bondage. They want to be "put in their place" so to speak, it's almost like a "fetish" for lack of a better word.

The woman that you know of probably has no idea what Muslim women face in those countries where the laws are in favour of men. If she were there, I am sure she'd do everything she could to get out.

sermonindex Oct 11, 2009

Well, with all due respect, you certainly stretched that one to it's limits.
:-P :-P

sermonindex Oct 11, 2009

To thingsabove,

Really? huh... I guess Jesus was speaking against God the father when he called Herod a fox.
1 Pet 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well... 18 Servants, [be] subject to [your] masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 19 For this [is] thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Ezra 5:12, Jer 27:8, Jer 28:11, 14; 1 Chron 5:26, Isa 10:12.


When Jesus remarked that Herod was a 'fox', He was stating truth, in love. He was not [i]misrepresenting[/i] the man to those to whom He was speaking.

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