Can Jesus Make A Man Holy? Self-Righteous Pharisees

sermonindex Oct 24, 2009

Why is it that whenever a person says that Jesus Christ has freed them from sin, so that they are living a holy life instead of a sinful life, so that they have an obedient heart instead of a disobedient heart, they are accused of being a self-righteous Pharisee? Isn't that a fallacious argument? If we stop sinning, because of the influence of God in our life, how is that self-righteousness?

Isn't it the work of grace to set us free from sin? Isn't it the design of the atonement to purify us from all iniquity? Yet if a man claims to be free from sin, he is told that he doesn't understand grace and that he is saying he doesn't need the atonement, as if the atonement was nothing more than a license to sin instead of what liberates us from sinning.

K

KingJimmy Oct 24, 2009

Why is that the only topic you want to talk about? Has grace been so multiplied to you that you know how to live a life free from sin, but have little to no interests in any of the other deep things of God?

sermonindex Oct 24, 2009

These topics sound like something so consistently narrow.... that it's possible that it could be perfected and taken to a college campus.

L

Leo_Grace Oct 24, 2009

truefaithsav wrote:
Why is it that whenever a person says that Jesus Christ has freed them from sin, so that they are living a holy life instead of a sinful life, so that they have an obedient heart instead of a disobedient heart, they are accused of being a self-righteous Pharisee? Isn't that a fallacious argument? If we stop sinning, because of the influence of God in our life, how is that self-righteousness?
Isn't it the work of grace to set us free from sin? Isn't it the design of the atonement to purify us from all iniquity? Yet if a man claims to be free from sin, he is told that he doesn't understand grace and that he is saying he doesn't need the atonement, as if the atonement was nothing more than a license to sin instead of what liberates us from sinning.

truefaithsav,

When you claim that you are living a sinless holy life, you are denying the Word of God, and are calling Him a liar, as Scripture says:

~~[i]~~1Jn 1:8-10 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.[/i]

You speak as a hypocrite, claiming the Word of God and denying it in the same breath - like a self-righteous Pharisee.

One either believes the entire Word of God, or none at all. There are no half-measures to the Christian faith.

sermonindex Oct 25, 2009

Does the Word of God teach that Jesus can't save his people from sinning? Does a person disbelieve the word of God if they believe in the power of grace to save a man from sin? Is the devil stronger than God? Is the power of sin greater than the power of grace? Is Jesus a great physician, if He cannot even heal his patients? Are all the talks in the Bible about being holy, being free from sin, keeping the commandments of God, just vain babble?

There is not a single sin that you can't stop doing. And there is not a single sin that you can hold on to and still go to Heaven. Without repentance there is no salvation. And if your heart holds on to any sin, if it does not reject all sin, then it is not a repentant heart but is impenitent still.

So much for 1 John 2:3-4.

J

jimp Oct 25, 2009

hi, paul met Jesus on the road,got saved,carried off to the third heaven, healed,spent time in the wilderness,evangelized the known world,was shipwrecked,beaten and left for dead,stoned,all in carrying out his commission from God to preach the gospel,wrote a lot of what you quote from the bible, yet at the end of his ministry he called himself the chief of sinners. now tell me about your holiness and your testimony. jimp

sermonindex Oct 25, 2009

Paul said he was the chief of sinners because he was previously a blasphemer and a persecutor of the Church (1 Tim. 1:13-15).

Paul said that He exercised himself to have a conscience void of offense (Acts 24:16). He could not say that unless he was living holy instead of sinful.

Paul said follow me as I follow Christ (1 Cor. 11:1). He could not say that unless he was living holy instead of sinful.

Paul wrote Holy Scriptures (2 Peter 3:16) which he could not do if he was not a holy man (2 Peter 1:21).

Paul told the Church to banish to incestuous Corinthian (1 Cor. 5:2), but if he was himself living a sinful life he would have been a hypocrite (Matt. 7:5).

Paul said a leader in the Church must be blameless (1 Tim. 3:2), but if Paul himself was living sinful instead of living holy, then Paul himself was not qualified to be a leader in the Church.

Paul's ministry was to call Gentiles to repentance (Acts 26:20) but if Paul did not repent of his own sins, but remained in them still, he was not qualified to call anyone to repentance.

J

jimp Oct 25, 2009

hi, he said i am not i was.

I

IWantAnguish Oct 25, 2009

truefaithsav, do you love God with all your heart soul and mind every day?

C

ceedub Oct 26, 2009

Truefaithsav. That's an interesting handle. True faith is a faith that rests on Christ's righteousness and not one's own. That's what makes it true and effectual. You believe that right?

I'm trying to picture Paul on this forum telling us over and over again how righteous he is. I'm having trouble.

But I can see Paul encouraging his brothers because of who they are to walk worthy of the calling instead of a backwards condescention.

There's a big difference in the motive and the method. One is easy to entreat, the other not so.

Encouraging a brother instead of looking down on him. That would be a decent thread.

sermonindex Oct 26, 2009

I can't image the Apostle Paul coming on this forum, attacking holiness and defending sin, and teaching that Jesus Christ is powerless to save. A Gospel that doesn't save men from sin is not a Gospel at all.

It is only because of Jesus Christ in our lives that we will walk in victory over sin. On our own, we sin every day. But with Jesus Christ, we are more than conquerors. The proof that we have the Holy Spirit in our lives is that we live a holy life (Ravenhill).

This should be a place where brothers are encouraged in holiness, not attacked and discouraged even for believing in it!

L

Leo_Grace Oct 26, 2009

Truefaithsav,

Holiness begins with humility, not pride. It begins by acknowledging weakness, not denying it. The Lord Jesus moves with power in our lives when we are contrite, not when we are gloating.

~~[i]~~2Co 12:9 But he said to me, [color=CC3300]“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. ”[/color] Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.[/i]

C

ceedub Oct 26, 2009

I can't image the Apostle Paul coming on this forum, attacking holiness and defending sin, and teaching that Jesus Christ is powerless to save. A Gospel that doesn't save men from sin is not a Gospel at all.

So, after all this discussion, you believe that those that disagree with you...

a) are attacking righteousness
b) are defending sin
c) are teaching that Christ is powerless

You see, when you attempt 'straw men' arguments like this one, you not only prove your arguments as incredibly weak, but also alienate everyone from you. What are you thinking with that response?

Do you think we all love sin, hate righteousness and see Christ as weak? Or is it more to do with someone that has forgotten from where he's fallen, and who holds him up?

I've said before that I appreciate the zeal. Why don't you quit looking down on everyone that doesn't confess to be as righteous as you do, and rather encourage your brothers?