Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

Hey everyone...I'm a bit confused on this passage from Paul...verse 7 says "to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life"...what exactly does he mean by that if eternal life can only be had through faith in Jesus? I know in chapter 3 he mentions faith in Christ as our reconciliation with God, but what does he mean about the aforementioned verses?
Also, this one I have struggled with for a while...Jesus says, in Luke 13:24, to strive/agonize through the narrow door...I'm not sure where the balance is between agonizing and a simple rest of faith in Christ...I always used to be afraid of trusting in Christ because I would always think "well, did I agonize enough?"...ya know? Any thoughts on these? Thanks guys

This is a very misinterpreted passage even among Christians.

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.

God bless,
-Eli

Eli_Barnabas wrote:
This is a very misinterpreted passage even among Christians.

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.

God bless,
-Eli

Very helpful. :-)

Jdl: Remember that originally Paul's letter to the Romans was not written as chapter and verse. These were added to make it easier for us to find things. To get the point of Romans 2:6-8, go back to Romans 1:18 or so and read through nonstop to Romans 2:29. Paul talks first about the Gentiles and the level of spiritual and moral depravity that was existent among them. Then he addresses the Jews in chapter 2. Verses 6-8 are, in context, making the point that God is going to judge each man individually according to his works and that there is no special favor granted by God to the Jews when it comes to judgment. Later in chapter 3 verse 9 he gets to the point that what he had written up to this point was meant to lead to the conclusion that all men, both Jew and Gentile, were under sin.

Again, Luke 13:24 must be read in the context of Jesus teaching. He was here answering the question of, "are there few that will enter in?" Jesus said to strive to enter the narrow gate, because there are many who will say we were with you, ate and drank with you, heard you teach, but He will say to them I never knew you. Many today are saying, "Lord, we have been to church for years and heard your words. We have been around you, and He will say depart, I never knew you. Why? Because they did not come in by the narrow gate but sought some other way.

Don't be afraid to trust in Christ. Who else is there who can trusted like He can? God never asked you to meet a certain level on the "agony-o-meter" before you qualify. There are many who go through painful mock crucifictions, crawl through glass, etc, etc, in some attempt to "suffer enough" that God will be appeased. It is self effort and leads only to pain and dissapointment as well as opening the door for the enemy to have a hay day with them. No agony required. Only repentance and acceptance of Christ as your ONLY sacrifice for sin.

I believe Paul is here laying a prescription for salvation. However, you have to read what he says here in context to his whole epistle. He says salvation is by faith and not works and of course will not contradict himself. In this specific statement by Paul he just did not lay out the whole of what he was saying.

He was basically saying that you must do these works to be saved. Yet, it is not these works that save you, but are acts of faith. One must have faith to be saved therefore one must act in faith to be saved faith must be activated.

If you truly have faith you will truly have works as a result and corresponding.

Regarding Luke 13:24, the NIV has it as:

Lk 13:24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

So the "strive" in KJV actually means "make every effort", and not "agonize" or suffer things. It is an encouragement to persevere.

Jdl wrote:
Hey everyone...I'm a bit confused on this passage from Paul...verse 7 says "to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life"...what exactly does he mean by that if eternal life can only be had through faith in Jesus? I know in chapter 3 he mentions faith in Christ as our reconciliation with God, but what does he mean about the aforementioned verses?

[b]:7[/b] [color=660000]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:[/color]
They who do such in this verse are meeting the criteria of election which is not contrary to salvation. The criteria are in well doing, which is the obedience of repentance & faith in Christ; in doing these they seek them. These are our reasonable service. Luke 17:10

[b]:8[/b] [color=660000]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath...[/color]
They should be fearful of persisting in the habit of obeying unrighteousness but obey the truth. If they they do not begin to obey the truth, the thing which they should fear is indignation and wrath

Also, this one I have struggled with for a while...Jesus says, in Luke 13:24, to strive/agonize through the narrow door...I'm not sure where the balance is between agonizing and a simple rest of faith in Christ...

The point is that we have a part to play in our relationship with Jesus (eternal life [John 17:3]).

I always used to be afraid of trusting in Christ because I would always think "well, did I agonize enough?"...ya know? Any thoughts on these? Thanks guys

Hi everyone...thanks for the replies, they have been helpful...I guess I'm still having trouble with reconciling striving and trusting/resting...For a while there I used to think that I couldn't do ANYTHING except seek after God for my salvation...in fact, a few months ago I feared even going to get a haircut or baseball game with my father because I thought God would strike me down and tell me "You should have used that time to seek me and find me"...I think that type of thinking somehow caused seeds of doubt to be planted about God...I guess now I'm confused about how to live my life...I feel that anytime I'm not on my knees in prayer seeking salvation or reading the Bible or reading apologetics to get a firm grip on faith in God, then it is time being wasted...how do I reconcile seeking and striving with actually just the nuances and pleasures of living (spending time with family, friends, etc...i think maybe i have a distorted image of God perhaps

Jdl,

Remember what Jesus taught us: "love your neighbor." He did not teach us "love your navel."

I wasted so much time in college being "super spiritual" when I could have been serving others. I don't want to see others make the same mistake.

Is that to say that Bible study and prayer are not important? By no means, but they must be viewed in harmony with the rest of our Lord's teaching regarding the Christian life.

Rest in Christ's finished saving work on the cross, then go forth and bring others into that rest.

With care in Christ,
Taylor

Hey guys...Taylor, Deepthinker, I'm kinda confused about wut you meant by loving your navel...if I missed sumthin please let me know, thanks!

Hi everyone,

I'd like to suggest a few things in relation to some of the responses here if I could:

"In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law."

I agree that this is part of the overall context that this passage appeares in but I do not think it fully relates what is being said in that passage or in these verses specifically.

The contrast in this passage is not specifically between works and faith, but rather of seeking to be justified by works, [b]apart from faith[/b](Rom 9:31-32).

Paul's declaration in verse 7 is not about those who seek eternal life [b]by perfect obedience[/b] to God's law(Mat 23:23, Luke 18:21, Lev 18:5, Gal 3:10), but of those who have acknowleged the truth of the Gospel and are seeking to live in accord with it(Php 1:27, Col 1:5-10)(1John 1:6-10), by patient continuance in doing good, not doing perfectly, or being without sin, or not having ever fallen from the perfection of the Law, but in doing good(both in coming to Christ to be justified(John 6:29) and in following after Him afterwards(John 8:31).

This is in contrast to verse 8, where, according to Strong's the word being translated [i]do not obey[/i] is:

G544
ἀπειθέω
apeitheō
ap-i-theh'-o
From G545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving.

and

G3303
μέν
men
men
A primary particle; properly indicative of affirmation or concession (in fact); usually followed by a contrasted clause with G1161 (this one, the former, etc.: - even, indeed, so, some, truly, verily. Often compounded with other particles in an intensive or asseverative sense.

I think this is important to distiguish for at least a couple of reasons:

One because, while I understand that Paul at times and in several places makes a sharp distinction between works and faith, I believe this is in order to make specific points, and namely, [i]that no one will merit eternal life[/i] [u]on the grounds[/u] [b]of their own goodness[/b].

This is ultimaltely the essence of our fall in Adam; that man, being made in the image of God, and being placed in a paradise, with no moral requirements for having had life or keeping it untill the commandment from God was given to him, having not kept it, was thrust out of the garden and now required to live as God(Gen 3:22). Without being God(Gen 3:19).

But Christ being not [b]an image of God[/b] but [b]the image of God[/b], under all the pressures and stresses and under the weight of Divine Life, lived perfectly as God. When we could not. And He merited eternal Life(Ps 45:7, Is 53:9-12) on the basis of His own goodness.

And this I think Paul wants anyone to understand that might think they could gain eternal life on the basis of their own goodness. Clearly none of us can! God alone merits having Eternal Life on the basis of His own goodness(Luke 18:19, John 5:26).

But this I think leads to the other reason why I believe these distinctions need to be made, and that is, that I believe the scriptures do teach that eternal life is the reward of the righteous.

I believe the scriptures teach that eternal life is the reward of the righteous, not on the basis of their own moral perfection and goodness, but as of stewards, and of those who have used what was [b]given to them[/b](1Pe 4:10, Mat 25:21, 2Co 6:1).

Time and again I think that the things in verse 7 are held out to believers as a reward and I think it is an error to say otherwise.

Wish you all well.