Clear evidence of a post trib rapture.

C

CrossCarrier Oct 30, 2009

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

He said that the day of the Lord will not come until the Antichrist is revealed. The pre trib rapture teaching is leaving the church unprepared. It has left the church fat, lazy, and out of breath.

sermonindex Oct 30, 2009

??what... ughh.. hold on..(trying to get up from couch)...whew, I gotta start that diet program...yawn..(stretching) ahh.. Now what where you saying?? something about day of the Lord coming 'after' man of sin revealed?? oh yea o.k.

(he, he,) hope you don't mind. Yes, I agree that the temptation can be to think that we won't have to go through it. We then don't prepare, and will then be more tempted to fall away! yep! I agree!

Also welcome crosscarrier, I like that name of yours.
Lord bless you!

L

Leo_Grace Oct 30, 2009

:-)

B

Blunt Oct 30, 2009

Pre Trib! Pre Trib! Pre Trib!

Remember We are all supposed to be ready regardless of your christian eschatology Trip Brothers. You guys crack me up.

Looking forward to that Blessed hope!

C

CrossCarrier Oct 30, 2009

These are specific instructions to guard you from deception.
"do not let anyone decieve you"
most of the church doesn't even want to look at the truth much less proclaim it

M

Miccah Oct 30, 2009

I am either pre, mid or post... This I know for sure. 8-)

K

KingJimmy Oct 30, 2009

Romans 11 clearly teaches there can be no resurrection of the dead without the conversion of unsaved Israel, which happens at the end of the age according to the prophets.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 30, 2009

Miccah wrote:
I am either pre, mid or post... This I know for sure. 8-)

Ditto! Of course, we can be what David Wilkerson calls "pan-trib" -- in which we realize that it will all "pan" out in the end. We should be ready for ANYTHING.

I currently lean toward a rapture that takes place before the wrath of God is poured out upon the Earth. Of course, I don't want to list my reasons (again). They are included in the other threads that debate the timing of the Lord's return.

I just think that we should be ready for anything (including suffering) regardless of the exact manner and timing of the Lord's return.

:-)

sermonindex Oct 30, 2009

The bible tells us to watch and warn those who are not ready. Watch men are seers they warn even kings at times. The prophet has warned nations and they sometimes turn but most of the time they do not. No doubt YOU may be ready but that does not change the fact that there are many who are not ready. If we believe a lie we are deceived. Jesus came to set us free from the lie of Satan. This pre-trib teaching is a destructive teaching. If it was not important why did Jesus warn so much about not believing a report of him coming back on Earth? He said make no mistake he would come back for all to see in the clouds . That is the blessed hope !! His return not a rapture. If we were not going to be here why did he give so many warnings to keep us from falling for the anti-christ. Why would he warn us about the anti - christ if we were not going to be here and why would he warn us if it was not important .Brother I love you and I know however I treat you is how I treat Jesus . So let me ask you a question are you ready to be tortured and not get offended because that is what the end time church will be asked to walk though. Jesus said woe to the pregnant women and those nursing in those days pray that your flight is not in this time. Jesus said woe!!! The reason I am passionate about this is not to be right but to make sure people have settled this in there hart . The bible tells us that many will fall away during this time.(Matt. 24) I will do what ever I can to make sure that does not happen on my watch !!!
Ezekiel 33
Ezekiel a Watchman
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, speak to your countrymen and say to them: 'When I bring the sword against a land, and the people of the land choose one of their men and make him their watchman, 3 and he sees the sword coming against the land and blows the trumpet to warn the people, 4 then if anyone hears the trumpet but does not take warning and the sword comes and takes his life, his blood will be on his own head. 5 Since he heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning, his blood will be on his own head. If he had taken warning, he would have saved himself. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them, that man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman accountable for his blood.'

All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing .
Daniel 11:32-35 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.
33 "Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered. 34 When they fall, they will receive A LITTLE HELP , and many who are not sincere will join them. 35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, PURIFIED and MADE SPOTLESS until the time of the END, for it will still come at the APPOINTED TIME .
I do not like it any more than you do but I have prepared my self . PEOPLE GET READY !!!

L

Lysa Oct 30, 2009

CrossCarrier wrote:
The Man of Lawlessness
....
He said that the day of the Lord will not come until the Antichrist is revealed. The pre trib rapture teaching is leaving the church unprepared. It has left the church fat, lazy, and out of breath.

1 Thess 4.13 But ~~[i]~~I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 ~~[b]~~Wherefore comfort one another with these words.[/b][/i]

Crosscarrier, I used to argue adamently about the topic you have brought up! (edit) I leaned heavily toward post trib as you (/edit) but the Lord has allowed me to see that we (or I) should focus on what is right (with people's salvation) rather than what is wrong. If they are saved, woo hooo; let's get them discipled so that they will not lose hope (during what may be a long life) and (become like the) evil servant as in Matt 24 and Luke 12

Jesus is coming soon, period. If I live to see Him coming in the clouds of glory, (praise God!) (if I don't), then I will close my eyes in faith to this life and lie in waiting for the sound of the trumpet (when the dead in Christ rises to meet Him in the air to ever be with the Lord)!!

Now, (one of my points in even sharing this with you is that) people are dying daily who are not ready to meet Him, whether He comes in the clouds or (in a car accident or by natural death) and what was I doing about it? Nothing, because I was arguing over the tribulation while people THAT I KNEW were dying without Jesus. God have mercy on me.

Luke 12.42 ~~[i]~~And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 ~~[b]~~Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.[/b] 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

My priorities have changed instead to helping disciple (those to be) the kinds of servants like above! Because none of us wants to turn out like the evil servant in Luke 12.45, 46, 47, 48.

(My point for even writing this was to say we are supposed to comforting one another with the thought that Jesus is coming soon!)

God bless you crosscarrier... your name sounds like a great spreading virus!! I know what your name is but I like a virus for Jesus! (huge grin)

God bless up!!

( ) = edited or added

T

twayneb Oct 30, 2009

Chris Wrote:I currently lean toward a rapture that takes place before the wrath of God is poured out upon the Earth. Of course, I don't want to list my reasons (again). They are included in the other threads that debate the timing of the Lord's return.

Bob, I can answer that question in one word....
Soon! ;-)

I have also heard this one from all directions and lean more toward no special rapture at all, but rather the body of Christ being caught away immediately after the dead in Christ rise. I guess you would call this a pre-wrath rapture as most people see it.

This one thing I do know. I will be more and more sure of my eschatology as I see it happening. In the mean time.........occupy!

Even so Lord come quickly! How my heart longs to see Him face to face.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 31, 2009

Hi twayneb...

Even so Lord come quickly! How my heart longs to see Him face to face.

Amen!!! What a wonderful day that will be!!!

BTW, CrossCarrier...

The pre trib rapture teaching is leaving the church unprepared. It has left the church fat, lazy, and out of breath.

I don't think that pre-trib believers have a monopoly on this. I have known plenty of of post and mid-tribbers who are just as fat, lazy and out of (spiritual) breath. I think that this has less to do with personal views on eschatology...and perhaps something to do with an inadequate prayer life.

T

twayneb Oct 31, 2009

Chris, I think you might be right brother. I am not so sure it has a lot to do with eschatology unless you are basing your relationship with Christ on your knowledge of when He is coming. I am not even sure it is a symptom of a prayerless life. I think the prayerless life is the symptom of something deeper still. I do know this one thing. I am so in love with Him and the time I spend with Him is so glorious. I find myself from time to time imagining what it will be like to finally see Him face to face, and it fills me with such desire for Him.

CrossCarrier, welcome to SI. The resources you will find here are outstanding. I have been blessed especially by audio teachings by Tozer, Ravenhill, and Duncan Campbell. Downloadable to my MP3 player. They are some of my favorite. I don't know why, but I really like listening to the older men who have paved the way. Enjoy the resources. Good to have you here.

J

jimp Oct 31, 2009

hi, when Jesus came the first time less than ten people got it right originally. be ready today...jimp

sermonindex Oct 31, 2009

amen !!

sermonindex Oct 31, 2009

LUKE 17:26-35:

It tells us it will be just like the days of Noah and Lot until the last day no one repented. Noah built the Ark for many years but no one wanted to get in Ark. They said it has never rained before. Much like this generation that says we will not go through the persecution that God has already told us we will go through. In the Days of Noah there was not a three year period when the water was only waist deep; that people would have another opportunity to enter the Ark. In the days of Lot there was not a second chance to get out of Sodom. In fact, the one that even looked back was turned to salt. In verse 32 it says “Remember Lot’s wife.” Even if you make it through the coming holocaust and your heart is still attached to this world, you will be left when Jesus does come back at the Last Seal, Last Trumpet and Last Bowl. And just like in the Days of Noah and Lot, all who are here will be destroyed. Matthew 13:41-43. Just like in the Days of Noah and Lot all will be destroyed Luke 37. People get ready. Jesus told us watch out that you are not deceived! Christians need to settle it in their hearts. If Jesus thought it was important for Peter to know that he would glorify God through his death in John 21:18-19. Then I believe it is equally important for us to know. Love always protects!!!!!
:-D

sermonindex Oct 31, 2009

Luke 17:37

E

Earendel Oct 31, 2009

The pre-trib rapture view states that ALL Christians will be removed from the Earth before the 7-year tribulation begins.

A common biblical phrase used for this view is the “The Body of Christ” is NOT appointed to wrath.

Well...this is true, we are not.

The Body of Christ is not appointed to wrath. But if the Body of Christ is not appointed to wrath, then neither is the Christian saints that go through the Tribulation, because the Body of Christ is not appointed to wrath, and they are the body of Christ too.

Although, the Body of Christ is not appointed to wrath, they are appointed to judgement.

Is it not the Apostle Peter who wrote that the judgement of God must begin at the house of God, and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where will the ungodly and sinner appear?

If the pre-trib rapture view is to be taken seriously by true students of bible prophecy, then there are two raptures at the time of the end, one before the Tribulation and one sometime before the end of the Great Tribulation, ...because both groups of saints are a part of the “First Resurrection” and rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years!

Pre-trib viewpoint rests heavily on Rev 3:10 which states: Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

And herein is the crux of the matter...the Lord Jesus does not state that the rapture will take place here at this point, only that: “ I also will keep you from the hour of testing”

It has been pointed out that over a billion evangelical Christians exist on the earth today; it has also been pointed out that the “Bible Belt USA” has the worst morality of any place in America. Just because a person calls themselves a Christian does not make it so.

I believe only a remnant of those who call themselves Christians will be “kept from the hour of testing” but so as through the fire, just like the 3 Hebrew Children was kept by the super-natural power of God.

The Apostle Paul seemed to know when the rapture would take place. 1 Corinthians 15:52 states: in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ~~[b]~~at the last trumpet.[/b] For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The only other place in the New Testament where it talks about trumpets at the time of the end is in the Book of Revelation; the last trumpet is the seventh trumpet where the Kingdom is proclaimed. The seven trumpets precede the bowl judgements, or the wrath of God.

I do not believe that Christians will be on the earth during the bowl judgements; I believe the rapture takes place at the seventh trumpet. There will be a remnant of man left on the earth from the nations after the Tribulation.