Between Adam and Moses

So my wife and I have been going through the Bible, beginning from Genesis, and have run into a couple of BIG questions.

So, I'm going to begin with a question from Romans 5, dealing with the book of Genesis (and Exodus until the Law).

Question #1: What does it mean when it says death reigned from Adam to Moses, even those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam? Specifically what does "death reigned" mean?

Question #2: Why does it seem that God overlooks the sins of man after Adam? (i.e. all the pluralism in marriage, Genesis 29 why God blesses Leah even through Sin of Jacob having multiple wives)

Question #3: Does God just not care about the wickedness of Abraham's offspring?

Question #4: Does God just have His way with the people regardless of what they do? It seems that He destroys Sodom and Gomorrah for being "wicked," but basically everyone in Genesis seems to be deceitful, why not punish them?

Any help with these, or further explanation to clear things up for me would be great.

Thanks,
Rhgray

1. It means even though the Law had been given, all men still died because of sin. Officially they hadn't broken commands of God. They hadn't eaten the fruit like Adam did when told not too and had not the commandments. But death reigned, because of inborn sin.

2. Romans 3:23-27 "23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, >>>>because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

He passed them over because Christ was coming.

3. God cares about all wickedness.

4. Yes and no. We're not supposed to talk about Calvanism here ;) But I believe God is sovereign. As for Genesis, they got it the worst. Remember the flood? He wiped em all out and started again. As for Covenant people, they seemingly got by with their wicked because of the promises and were later vindicated by Christ as per the Romans passage up there ^. But depending on the situation they did have small prices to pay along the way. The consequences are just woven into the narrative so it seems different. Like Judah's sin and losing his firstborn blessing.

Welcome RHGray.

The period of time between Adam and Moses is, obviously, pre-law. The point Paul makes in Romans 5 is this. He says that it was by one man that sin entered the world, and the result of that sin was death to all men, spiritually and physically. Then he makes this statement. Even though sin was in the world, it was not held to the account of the sinner since there was no law yet given. Nevertheless, the physical consequence of sin, death, reigned even before there was a law under which the transgression could be imputed. It is interesting that Paul says that sins were not imputed before the law. Recall the attitude of Lamech in Gen. 4:23 and 24. Instead of lamenting his own sin of murder, he points to God's protection of Cain and boldly states that God will protect him seventy and seven fold. Paul says in Galatians 3:9 that the law was added because of transgressions until Christ should come. The law made sin exceeding sinful. It both made us painfully aware that we were sinners and hopelessly so, and it also restrained sin in the earth because of the severity of the consequences of breaking the law. So Paul is basically saying that although there was not a law given at this time, yet sin was still sin and was evident by the consequence of death that reigned over mankind.

As to God's apparent oversight of the sins of many of the patriarchs in the Old Testament, I am not sure I can give you an entirely satisfactory answer, but I can share some thoughts that I have had on the issue. We as born again believers have something that none of the men and women of who lived either before the law or under the law had, although some like Abraham and David had a revelation. We have righteousness and right standing with God through Christ and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. This prompted Jesus to say this in Luke 7:28 "For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." Me, greater than John the baptist??? According to Jesus YES!!! Now look at Acts 17:30. Paul tells the gentiles at Athens that at one time God winked at their ignorance but now calls men everywhere to repent. Before the law, there was great ignorance of the ways of God. Noah and his sons had known God, but much of that knowledge had been abandoned. {This is extrabiblical, but my opinion. Noah still had, I believe, the writings of Adam, Enoch, etc., but very few had access or regarded these things. } The law brought in a standard and through His dealings with the Jews and the statements of the prophets, God showed the world who He was and what He was like. It is not that God has changed. There is just a different level or degree of revelation now than then. It was a difference in how God dealt with man.

Hope that helps brother.

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Nevertheless, the physical consequence of sin, death, reigned even before there was a law under which the transgression could be imputed.

This makes sense. I guess my follow-up question to this would be; Was there knowledge of Heaven at this point (between Adam and Moses)? I can't recall a mentioning of Heaven, besides the creation account. Because when God curses man, he says "to dust you shall return." Does that mean that there wasn't a Heaven men went to?

Other than Enoch being "taken up" I don't really remember a mention of a Heavenly realm.

Another follow-up question is this:

If God "winked at" sin previously committed. Or God "passed by" former sin, does that bring into question His justice? I know that God is not subject to our view of His justice, but it seems like it's out of His character to just pass by sin.

And if the Law made sin exceedingly sinful, wouldn't that mean that God's view of sin changed? Because if He's that same yesterday, today and forever, isn't that a contradiction?

Or are all these things just in tension with one another?

Sorry I'm kinda of theological vomiting on everyone, but I'm just curious.

Interested in the replies.

Thanks all.

-R.H. Gray

If God "winked at" sin previously committed. Or God "passed by" former sin, does that bring into question His justice? I know that God is not subject to our view of His justice, but it seems like it's out of His character to just pass by sin.

Not at all and no loopholes are necessary to explain it. The Romans passage I mentioned earlier details it. Rom. 3:23-27. God passed over all sins of His saints, not just David, looking forward to the sacrifice of Christ. Up until then, it could have seemed like God was injust, BUT when Christ became a propitiation (bore the just wrath for those sins and ours as well) God could freely justify the wicked and remain just.

This was His plan from the beginning. No one was ever to be justified by the law but through faith alone ( Gal. 3:11 ). The law exists to reveal sin, man's hopelessness to overcome it, and thereby cause him to look at God for redemption. This is the plan now and was His plan in the Old Testament too. For the just shall live by faith ( Hab. 2:4).

Was there knowledge of Heaven at this point (between Adam and Moses)? I can't recall a mentioning of Heaven, besides the creation account. Because when God curses man, he says "to dust you shall return." Does that mean that there wasn't a Heaven men went to? Other than Enoch being "taken up" I don't really remember a mention of a Heavenly realm.

Good question. In the creation account we find that God created the heavens (plural). Some believe this to mean the atmosphere and space. The heavens are also used scripturally to refer to the spiritual real which we cannot see but with which we interact regularly. John 4:23-24, Eph. 6:12. It is also used to refer to the place that Jesus said He goes to prepare for us (John 14:3). Genesis is filled with referenced to heaven, so the concept was alive and well. I guess it might arguably have been more common a concept and more near the heart of man than it is even now since it was so close in time to a time when God walked and talked with man face to face. I am not sure we can know. As to heaven in an eternal home sense I am not sure. Obviously God gave some men a revelation of what salvation was about (Enoch probably and Abraham specifically as evidenced by what Jesus and the writer of Hebrews had to say about him.) I have not found any Biblical evidence that people who lived pre-law spoke in these terms. One scripture is interesting.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

It seems the people that lived before the flood at least, and in my opinion before the law, were reserved in some location and had the opportunity of hearing Christ and make a decision about Him for themselves. I'm sure many people have tried to figure out exactly what is being said here. I guess I just look at the simple and straightforward reading and assume that for sure all men that lived before the law, and in my opinion probably all men who lived prior to Christ's sacrifice for sin eventually have the opportunity to accept or reject Christ. I am not sure my view on this effects anything in particular since I live under the New Covenant and will find out how God did handle the Old Covenant people soon enough.

If God "winked at" sin previously committed. Or God "passed by" former sin, does that bring into question His justice? I know that God is not subject to our view of His justice, but it seems like it's out of His character to just pass by sin.

And if the Law made sin exceedingly sinful, wouldn't that mean that God's view of sin changed? Because if He's that same yesterday, today and forever, isn't that a contradiction?

Romans says that sin is not imputed where there is no law. Look at it this way if it helps. Lets say your city has no law against speeding. For years everyone has traveled at whatever speed they wished. Your city government says, OK, we must do something about this speeding problem. So that people will know how bad speeding is, we must enact a law against it. So they do. Now speeding is punishable by a fine of $5 for every MPH infraction. Does that mean that your city leader's sense of justice or character is off, or that of the policemen has changed or is in invalid?

It is not that the character or nature of God changed one bit. It means that the way he dealt with man changed.

Here is something else to look at when we ask, "why the law?". We have said that the law was added because of transgressions until Christ should come (remember when the fullness of time was come Christ came born of Mary). The law had a restraining effect on sin. I heard it put this way once, and it may not be too far off. Someone said that if God had not instituted the law there may not have been a virgin left for Jesus to be born to. It was a bit tongue in cheek when it was said, but it does highlight one purpose for the law.

The main purpose, however, was to establish a standard of God's righteousness and show us that without a savior we could never make it. It was the schoolmaster that brought us to Christ. The law was meant to conclude us all under sin and show us that we needed a savior.

Seeing this, we can see the merciful character of God. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. The law, as harsh as it was, helped point us to God's mercy. Remember when Jesus said he came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Recall also how Hebrews tells us the law has been ended for the sake of obtaining righteousness and that the old covenant has been abolished for the sake of the new. These are not in conflict at all. Jesus fulfilled the law by fulfilling it's purpose. He was the one the law pointed us to by concluding us all under sin. He was the propitiation for sin that the law showed us we needed. When Jesus came, the whole purpose of the law had arrived. The dispensation of law then passed away as the law has now seen it's purpose fulfilled in the coming of Christ.

I would say that the law was only a shadow of God's true holiness and righteousness. Remember Matthew 5 and the sermon on the mount. The law is compared to God's true standards and it is shown that if we wanted ever thought that we could be perfect by keeping laws that we have to be perfect like God on our own rights. Something that compells us the say, "If this is the case I am hopeless outside of Christ."

I am not sure if that answered the question but I hope it helped.

DeepThinker I like your posts. And I honestly wrestle with the same things. I think our difference comes in that I was looking at the broadstrokes while you were looking at the particulars. All I am basing my posts off of are Paul's take on the matter. I don't know why God does or doesn't do things situationally.

I do question how many people actually were stoned because of adultery. We see instances where the immediate justice of the law was carried out (like Achan), but so often in the Old Testament the whole nation of Israel is backslidden, idolatrous, and overflowing with the very sins (like adultery) they were supposed to punish.