Why is heresy (J. Morrell) permitted on this message board?

Josef,

I get Jesse Morrell's emails and I have never detected that he taught this doctrine of Pelagianism. I checked its definition but I never noticed this in any of his articles, unless I did not read them all and that is where it is. Would you mind posting a link to a piece that he wrote exposing this doctrine?

ginnyrose

Can you explain what these heresies are?

You can read why Jesse Morrell is a heretic on the blog post below. It is factual.

http://graceinthetriad.blogspot.com/2009/08/heretical-theology-of-jesse-morrell.html

To be fair to the moderators, truefaithsav had previously kept a relatively low profile and only recently started posting his false doctrines prolifically. A few of those threads were locked, and the moderator has warned him to desist based on the content of those posts (Pelagianism), but I'm not sure if they are aware of his true identity.

How are you so sure that truefaithsav is Jesse Morrell?

Thank you true witness for the link.

Agree, that this teaching is heresy. There are many other "Campus Preachers" that have heretical views. Some of them have been discussed here.

Some accuse Calvinism also, of at least the odor of it.

Hello Brother Tom

I believe you meant to say Arminianism.

I don't know whether or not "truefaithsav" is truly Jesse Morrell. He used to go by a different name here.

I think that it would be wise to remember that the SermonIndex ministry, Greg and the moderators do not necessarily endorse ANY of the posts made by individuals on this website. The thoughts and views that are posted within the forum are just that -- [u]out[/u] thoughts and [u]our[/u] views. There are plenty of individuals here who do not see "eye to eye" on many different "doctrinal" issues. I haven't agreed with Jesse Morrell in the past on certain things, but I never thought that he embraced open-ended "Pelagianism." Then again, I have never asked him either.

Of course, I haven't read every post in every thread contained within these forums over the last six years. However, over this same time, I have seen plenty of doctrinal disagreement. I have also noticed that many people are very quick to point the finger of "heresy" at someone else without taking the steps necessary to seek clarity.

Someone once accused me of being a "Calvinist" here. Of course, they were using their own personal definition of what a "Calvinist" might be (which, after all, varies from person to person). After they spoke with me privately, they became exceedingly aware that I was definitely NOT a Calvinist (at least, by the extent of their own definition). Perhaps much of the heretical finger pointing might be squashed if we were able to sit with one another, share our testimonies, and explain the extent of our views a little more clearly.

Of course, I really don't know Jesse Morrell or the extent of his doctrinal views. I don't even know if "truefaithsav" is actually Jesse Morrell either. I also believe that we should stand for truth...and remain opposed to what we see as a true heresy. However, I can't help but wonder if we have made every attempt to verify or clarify the ultimate extent of those views.

Like the notion that "The Pilgrim" expressed, I've seen plenty of open air preachers who teach heresy. More often, however, I have noticed that their message is no longer simple because it teaches a "salvation" that appears contingent upon the hearers embracing the open air preacher's personal doctrinal views. In the "secular" college campus that I attended, there was a visiting "open air preacher" who presented a message that was so complicated and dogmatically specific that it almost made it seem impossible for a "normal" sinner to ever truly be saved. Consequently, no one accepted his "invitation" for prayer even after a week of "trying."

Regardless, I am not particularly "influenced" by ANYONE's doctrinal views as presented here on SermonIndex. I am fully aware that everyone here is just as "human" as I am...and just as confined to live on this side of Eternity (complete with the flaws) as we still "see through a glass, darkly" (I Corinthians 13:12).

*EDIT - My post is not meant to be seen as any endorsement of "Pelagianism," "moral government theology" or any other real (or imaginary) heresy either. I just think that we often exert too much energy into dissecting doctrines into complex ideas and then somehow miss the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The only benefit I see in him sticking around is that his heretical views make it easier to demonstrate from the Scriptures what Biblical Christianity is when compared to the dark teachings of these demonic doctrines. Personally, I'd rather see him go if I had a say in the matter. But God bless the moderators in whatever they do.

I think Joseph, Eli or someone should have an open debate (with the scriptures open) with Jesse. What do you all think?

I think there has been enough of that here on these forums. There is nothing to debate.

The only benefit I see in him sticking around is that his heretical views make it easier to demonstrate from the Scriptures what Biblical Christianity is when compared to the dark teachings of these demonic doctrines. Personally, I'd rather see him go if I had a say in the matter. But God bless the moderators in whatever they do.

I was going to write something and then I read KingJimmy's response and he said it better then I could - so amen brother - I agree.

Patrick
www.jonahproject.org

My dear brethren,

The fact that this person is Jesse Morrell or anyone else for that matter is irrelevant. Any person coming into these forums with a proselytizing agenda for one theological system or another is not allowed.

John Calvin himself would be shut down here if he tried to aggressively promote Calvinism; John Wesley would also be shut down if he tried to promote and strive for Arminianism - and the same for Charles Finney if he tried to promote Pelagianism. There is no respect of persons nor partiality for one doctrinal system or another on SermonIndex. All are free to share - and are encouraged to share the writings of Finney, Wesley, Spurgeon - but once the "sharing" becomes "promoting" (note, there is a fine line of discernment here), the person in question has failed to comply with the SermonIndex guidelines.

As many know, I have already shut down numerous moral government theology threads. You have also seen me conclude several divisive cal/arm threads with equal tenacity. Brothers, the sad thing I find in common is that all these systems are at war with one another, and the devil triumphs when brethren are divided. The Arminians blame the Calvinists for being lawless and lukewarm; the Calvinists are at war with the Arminians and Pelagians, accusing them of heresy, etc. The Wesleyian camp fires another round back with the word "antinomianism" painted on the bullet. It's endless, mindless, profitless and accomplishes absolutely nothing but the furtherance of more war.

I say, leave "trufaithsav" alone and study instead to be quiet and do your own business. I personally do not adhere to the system these guys propagate, and I know many of you reading do not either, but they are free to share their interpretations of scripture just as the reformed and free will brethren are.

Once we feel someone has crossed the "fine line" of what was already mentioned, measures will be taken accordingly.

Brother Paul

Hey Paul,

It's endless, mindless, profitless and accomplishes absolutely nothing but the furtherance of more war.

I agree with you totally on the issues of Cal/Arm and the division it causes - most times it is a useless argument instead of an edifying discussion and I won't be a part of it. I don't believe either Cal/Arm believers are heretics, except in cases where extremes are pushed resulting in certain forms of sinless perfection and/or free grace as a license to sin.

But in my opinion when talking about Moral Government theology and Open Theism I think in most cases you have crossed the line into heresy or as KingJimmy put it "demonic doctrines". It's kind of like you don't hear Wilkerson railing against Calvinist, but you do hear him rail against the prosperity gospel - one is a difference in theological opinion the other is heresy or a different gospel all together.

What are your thoughts on this - this is just my opinion, please correct me if I am wrong as I have been many times in the past.

God bless,

Patrick
www.jonahproject.org

This discussion sounds alot like what Paul spoke of when he described a spiritual precept found in 1 Corinthians 11:

1Cr 11:18\t \tFor first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Cr 11:19\t \tFor there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

In the above Scripture we find that "there must be also heresies among you" for the expressed purpose of God declaring "that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

This precept is found throughout Scripture.

Example...................................................................................

Num 16:1\t¶\tNow Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took [men]:

Num 16:2\t \tAnd they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:

Num 16:3\t \tAnd they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, [Ye take] too much upon you, seeing all the congregation [are] holy, every one of them, and the LORD [is] among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

Num 16:4\t¶\tAnd when Moses heard [it], he fell upon his face:

Num 16:5\t \tAnd he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who [are] his, and [who is] holy; and will cause [him] to come near unto him: even [him] whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.

Here is another example............................................................

1Ki 18:17\t¶\tAnd it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, [Art] thou he that troubleth Israel?

1Ki 18:18\t \tAnd he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim.

1Ki 18:19\t \tNow therefore send, [and] gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the groves four hundred, which eat at Jezebel's table.

1Ki 18:20\t¶\tSo Ahab sent unto all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together unto mount Carmel.

1Ki 18:21\t \tAnd Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

In each of these situations God made it clear who was right and who was wrong.

Likewise we find this precept found in the book of Job. We have the 3 friends of Job against the testimony of Elihu. We again are given a clear decision on who speaks from his flesh and who speaks from the Spirit of God.

If one reads the testimony of Elihu found in Chapters 32 through 37 one will find that Elihu teaches us many things about how God works to restore to man His righteousness.

My question to you all...based on Elihu's testimony...how does your doctrine line up or diverge from the truth....

Does your doctrine declare you a heretic or are you approved?

In Christ
Jeff

I have only two cents to add:

1.) When you lose the imputation of Christ's righteousness by grace alone through faith alone, you've lost the Gospel.

2.) When you lose the penal substitutionary suffering of Christ in the place of all sinners that believe on Him, you've lost the Gospel.

Put wax in your ears if someone is telling you otherwise.