I'm back guys, sorry (the hell thread)

J

Jdl Nov 12, 2009

Hey guys, sorry for the short absence…I didn’t mean to make it seem like I ignored the thread I started and the responses of everyone…And I certainly didn’t mean for the thread to end up like that…I was actually kind of nervous coming back to check on it because I thought by now most of you would have rolled your eyes and gotten so tired of me…but thanks for taking the time to respond

Thingsabove: My heart definitely wants to submit to God, it just seems like my head is in the way, if that makes any sense…for some reason I feel like God wants me to remove all these nagging intellectual and doctrinal issues from my head before I can go to Him for the freeness of the gift and the pleasure of having rest in Him

MaryJane: I envy that so much in you on how you see yourself as a wicked sinner because then God’s gift is so much more beautiful to you…I know I am a sinner, and on certain days I feel filthy because I am so drenched in it, but I wish God sometimes would let me see more of myself because it still doesn’t feel like enough

Anonymity: I guess it’s not so much the justice part that bothers me…I guess it’s the eternity of it, you know?

Taylor and Leo: I’ve talked to pastors about this, but sometimes I hear different things…I discount my chance at salvation because in order to be saved I guess one has to feel convicted enough of their sin to where they can stand before God and tell Him that they deserve to go to hell…I know this theologically, I just don’t feel it enough in my bloodstream…Leo, my fear of hell, among other things, is what’s keeping me seeking God…however, I don’t ever think I’ll be “allowed” to trust in Him for my salvation until I agree with Him about hell and until it doesn’t rub me the wrong way…but everytime I think of hell I get so sad and bothered and upset about it…and I’m afraid those thoughts will never go away…you said this in a later post: If the idea of hell makes you angry because of the eternal torment it signifies, then be angry at sin and at sinful man -- never be angry at God who has done so much to keep us with Him, and away from hell.
That’s part of why I am in mental agony! Because I think the reverse! I get upset at God rather than man…and I keep hearing that the only way to change is if the Holy Spirit convicts a person…and since I still think these things I usually conclude that the Holy Spirit hasn’t convicted me yet, and without that first step, I can’t quite go to God…and I think that’s what started my whole doubting

DeepThinker: It’s not that I don’t think God can save me…I guess I just feel that He won’t save me because of my attitude towards Him and hell, you know? I have listened to sermons, but sometimes they confuse me on this subject because I’ll get something from one person and a different thing from another

InGrace, IWantAnguish, KingJimmy, broclint: I don’t want to reject Christ…I want to choose Him…it’s just that like I said before, I fear that I am not allowed to receive Him until sin gets convicted so much inside of me that I can even say sumthing to the effect of “Hell is too good a place for a sinner like me”…I remember hearing a story of a person who actually said that and I got so jealous of him

Jimp: That’s actually a pretty interesting analogy using the river, I never thought of it like that before

Bible4life: Wow…I’ve actually got a lot in common with your friend…I’ve definitely wanted to end my life due to all these miserable thoughts in my head…it justs sucks cause most of them are thoughts against God and stuff

Again guys, sorry for the absence…Your responses weren’t in vain, thank you for them…I guess what I fear the most are my sinful thoughts against God and that they will never go away…Sometimes I do think “well heck, if God knew we were going to sin and be sent to hell, He shouldn’t have made us in the first place…he owes it to us to save us”…and I know these are horrendous, blasphemous thoughts, but I just can’t seem to get rid of them…I’m pretty ashamed of sharing them with you all, but I guess I should…one pastor told me that these thoughts prove how wicked we truly are, yet they still aren’t beyond the mercy of God and that Christ can save me from them…but then another pastor said something along the lines of the very fact that I have these thoughts means I cannot be saved…yet, at least…so I dunno…I’m miserable...oh, and to Paul West, I’m sorry about the thread and where it went and how you had to lock it…alright everyone, I guess that’s it for now…thanks again for taking the time

M

MaryJane Nov 12, 2009

Greetings Jdl
Keep seeking Him, spend all your time in the Bible, read from Genesis to revelations and see the faithfulness of God. He does not abandon or turn His back on those who place their faith and trust in His son. His love for you is so far beyond anything that you could ever imagine. He sent His only son to die for you so that you might be saved. You said you have these dark thoughts, begin today to take every one of these thoughts captive and submit them unto the Lord. When these dark thoughts enter your mind, don't give them a moment, take each one captive, grab hold of it and take it to the cross. The enemy wants to deceive you into believing that there is no hope but you do not have to believe his lies. It is your choice. I will keep praying for you. I came across this message shared with me and thought I would pass it along to you.

God bless
mj

TRUST, and Move Deeper and Deeper Into His Life

Have you ever stood between two mirrors? Do you remember what happened when you looked into the one in front of you? You could see yourself in mirror after mirror, deeper and deeper and deeper, to infinity. This is how all-encompassing it is when you understand this: “We must have Faith... that Faith is our access to the Father. We must believe that He gives Life to those who believe. We must have Faith that our Father forgives all who have Faith in His Son. Trust... that the Solution... is simply to Trust.” This is the Gospel, the Good News. And the more we Trust, and enjoy His Infinite Wisdom and companionship. Deeper and deeper into His heart and life and power. Trust that there is Life... in trusting the Blood of the Son.

L

Lordoitagain Nov 13, 2009

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

This promise is for you, Jdl!

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

When you get God's ways figured out, you will be God.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

When I was in a college of education, they tried to brainwash me with the arrogance that I have the right to pass judgement on God. THANK GOD I didn't let their folly take control of my soul! God will deliver you from the folly of passing judgement on Him if you will seek Him with all of your heart.

Small illustration: Electricity is a great thing when it is respected properly. When it is not, it can be extremely painful. While in this life, I don't understand God's ways any more than a caterpillar understands the view that a butterfly knows . . . but give me about 5 minutes of flying into eternity, and many mysteries will dissolve.

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

Sometimes I do think “well heck, if God knew we were going to sin and be sent to hell, He shouldn’t have made us in the first place…he owes it to us to save us”…and I know these are horrendous, blasphemous thoughts

To God they are not horrendous. They are thoughts. I imagine that most of us have thought of that, but they are fleeting compared to the mercy of God.

I sat down with my Sister in law who was having a hard time reading the bible. She was kind of a nervous wreck, "trying" to understand the bible. She has gotten all kinds of translations and even the Message Bible so she can read it as plain as it can possibly be. Well she was still having the trouble. When she told me her plight, I told her that it was not for us to "try" to understand the bible, rather it's the Holy Spirit to give us the understanding. I told her to just read the bible and let God give you the understanding. She said, "You mean I don't have to try to understand the bible?", Not at all.

For you JDL, since you'll never find the answers to your "horrendous" questions, you should abandon them for the things that are truth, because you simply will not find the answers to your questions in the bible. You must settle within yourself that the questions that your posing are not coming from God but from an enemy that doesn't want you to come into a relationship with God. It's not important that "If God knows that people will end up in hell", God is God and you cannot change Him. Settle that in heart. Shout it out, "I don't understand you God, I want to know you".

I was where you were brother. I was trying to get answers to these questions and it was frustrating and I couldn't get other Christians to understand me, and it was awful. I had to learn to let them go and accept the fact that I can't change God.

One dear old saint told me, "You will never prove God wrong". You see, I had a bad relationship with my Dad and since I couldn't fight with my Dad, I fought with God so to speak and I was trying to prove Him wrong. (It's amazing how God put up with me). I lay on my bed and I was so mad at God that I took my Bible and slammed it up against the wall saying, "You don't love me, you just want me to go hell, you put me on this earth so you can torment and send me to hell". Oh man I was a bitter old bag.

So I lay there wallowing in my self pity. God never gives up, you have to give Him that. I said, "You love the world but you don't love me". Well, I backed up a little and quoted the verse that says, John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not die but have everlasting life". I thought, "wait a minute, I am in this world, that includes me, God said that He loves me and If I believe in Jesus I wouldn't die".

Too me way back then it was a revelation. And I went into the corner and picked up that bible cradling it in my hands and cried before God in saying how sorry I was for charging Him with something that He is not guilty of. I told Him that it was my Dad that I was having a problem with and He by the grace of God caused me to forgive that man after seeing his heart, it was easy to forgive.

JDL, we go through experiences so that we can tell others that your not alone, that we have gone through similar situations and there is a hope, and that God is not willing that you should die that you'd come to the knowledge of the truth.

Embrace that truth and let go of these other thoughts. When they come into your mind, say words similar to these, "I don't accept that lie, I cast that lie down in the name of Jesus" and keep doing that and believe it.

Above all spend time with God, and tell Him all that your telling us. You'll be surprised how much of this burden will lift.

Does this interest you?

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

one pastor told me that these thoughts prove how wicked we truly are, yet they still aren’t beyond the mercy of God and that Christ can save me from them…but then another pastor said something along the lines of the very fact that I have these thoughts means I cannot be saved…yet, at least…so I dunno

Hopefully we can all be mature enough to concentrate on getting you some help this time.

As for what these "pastors" have told you, they are merely opinions of mere men. Which one can claim inspiration from the Holy Spirit? How would you know?

See, you not only need an infallible book (the Bible). You need an infallible interpreter of that Book. The incorrect interpretation of the Bible cannot properly be called the Word of God...only the correct one.

You have a foundational assurance problem.

Peace and hope IS available to you.

M

MaryJane Nov 13, 2009

Greetings Jdl

Just wanted to remind you, God has given you all that you need, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit, spend time in the Word and let the Holy Spirit teach and guide you. Trust and have faith in the Lord. If you choose to spend your time truly seeking Him, you will find Him.

God Bless
mj
__

We live by faith, approaching Him in every area of our lives, every minute, with faith in the Son—“the Father loves the Son.” We live by faith; that’s God’s call. And that faith is a posture of heart, affecting the attitude we take in the way we speak and how we make decisions, and how we respond in times of failure and success, crisis and difficulty. “The just shall live by faith.” “This is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.” And so we live that way all the time. In other words, through Jesus we have peace with God—through the Lord Jesus Christ. We come to the Father through Him. “No one comes to the Father but by Me,” Jesus said. “I am the way, I am the only way to the Father.” The Father is the destination, and we come through the Lord Jesus Christ. We come to the Father in peace through the Lord Jesus Christ, reasoning with the Father not on our own merit, on any front, but reasoning with the Father on the merit of the Son of God. That’s living by faith—trusting in Jesus’ worth, not our own. That’s not a “doctrine”—it’s the way we live our lives! That’s what Paul meant when he said, “through our Lord Jesus Christ”—“I no longer live, I live by faith in the Son of God.”

J

Jdl Nov 13, 2009

Hey guys, thanks for the responses...Deep, thanks for sharing that story...I wish I had the conviction that you all have...Are you guys sure that I'm allowed to ignore these thoughts? I mean, it seems like there's no way I can become a Christian with these thoughts until they're all completely gone, rather than ignored...I guess sometimes they hinder my seeking after God...I guess I also fear the fact that i am troubled by that aspect of God's character...and I remember hearing Spurgeon say that if we don't like something about someone, we will not trust them...thus I feel like I can't trust God if I have these thoughts about Him because it would be a false trust that He probably wouldn't accept, you know? I feel stuck...I used to read the ten commandments over and over to try to get a sense of the holiness of them and the wickedness of me...but the more I did it the more hardened I became

J

Jdl Nov 13, 2009

Also, MaryJane, where did you get that message? I liked it...and Lorddoitagain, you said: When you get God's ways figured out, you will be God.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

I need to hear that...but I guess for me it's a struggle to try and organize which are the ways I think He wants me to figure out and which are the ones I should leave alone, u know?

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

mean, it seems like there's no way I can become a Christian with these thoughts until they're all completely gone, rather than ignored...I guess sometimes they hinder my seeking after God.

Every Christian in this forum will admit to you that every time they get down to pray they have to push a lot of the days garbage to the wayside. Once you make up your mind and push through and push away the thoughts that hinder you, you'll break free from that.

If you've ever watched Daffy Duck. There was a scene where he was trying to get this black goo off him. The whole screen was filled with this black glob that it was weighing him down and he tried everything to get it off him. He even propped it with a stick but it oozed down anyway and then finally out of sheer desperation he went crazy and tore it all apart. That is where your at, your tolerating the thoughts, your propping it up but when you come to the end of yourself you'll become violent in your faith and mean business and you'll break through the darkness and see the light.

Holiness is not something you attain. Holiness is in a person, Jesus Christ. The command to be holy is the command to put on Jesus Christ. It's nothing to do with your efforts. God is not interested in what you can do for Him, rather what He can do through you.

I pray that you'll come to the end of yourself soon.

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

Jdl, I recommend you take the time to read the new thread,

"What must I do to be saved?" By Charles Finney.

I pulled it from SI text sermons with you in mind. I hope it helps.

It's under Scriptures and doctrine.