Unconverted People allowed in Church?

Should we continue to have Sunday worship services mixed with the unconverted goats within?

Why do we call out for revival, extra-biblical manifestations when we can't even worship God as He ought to be worshiped, due to catering to unsaved believers within the 'church?'

My question is this: Is it biblical to allow unconverted church people within our worship / fellowship?

If it is not biblical, (which I believe it isn't) shouldn't we be more active in witnessing our faith to others in our daily lives, rather than relying on the pastorate to convert unconverted believers who attend every week?

Is the gospel to be spread throughout this world through pastors in buildings?

When are we going to get back to the book of Acts?

Our "Christian" standard is so far below that of the apostles, I do not know what they would say of us, if they were still alive. We know practically nothing of God's holiness, and His righteousness. Perhaps we have head knowledge, but no true relational knowledge of God.

Do we really believe that without holiness no one will see the Lord? What are we doing with our lives? Were we saved to simply struggle with sin and limp into eternal glory? Were not we called to live a victorious life through the empowering of the Holy Spirit, as a radical group of people, making Jesus Christ shown worthy of a life of sacrifice?

What am I doing with my life... What are we as 'Christians' doing with our lives?

IWantAnguish wrote:

Should we continue to have Sunday worship services mixed with the unconverted goats within?

[u][b]Luke 14:7-14 (NKJV) [/b][/u]

[b]Take the Lowly Place[/b]

So He told a parable to those who were invited, when He noted how they chose the best places, saying to them: “When you are invited by anyone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in the best place, lest one more honorable than you be invited by him; and he who invited you and him come and say to you, ‘Give place to this man,’ and then you begin with shame to take the lowest place. But when you are invited, go and sit down in the lowest place, so that when he who invited you comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, go up higher.’ Then you will have glory in the presence of those who sit at the table with you. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Then He also said to him who invited Him, “When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you; for you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

[u][b]Luke 5:29-30 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

I am in no way insinuating that we should not preach to the lost...

People always bring up the fact that Jesus went straight to the sinners and tax collectors, and thus justify that we ought to have unconverted believers in our fellowship...

I would submit to you that this ought not be.

Why?

Those sinners in Jesus' time knew they were sinners, and in desperate need of a savior.

These sinners in our churches don't even know they're lost, and they think they're going to heaven...

Thank you for your gracious reply. I pray that I can convey my thoughts on this matter with love and respect.

IWantAnguish wrote:

Those sinners in Jesus' time knew they were sinners, and in desperate need of a savior.

These sinners in our churches don't even know they're lost, and they think they're going to heaven...

Brother, isn't this an assumption on your part? Some places of worship will blast the congregation and preach the "turn or burn" sermons. From what I've seen, these are not the most effective way of reaching unsaved people at churches, because as the old saying goes... "Your preaching to the converted". Most places that preach this loose the unsaved pretty quick I would think, and then you are left with only church membership.

Most of the people that I bring into fellowship at our House Church, and at our place of worship on Sunday, understand that they are missing something...they are lost. They see that we have something that they desire...and it entices them. Sometimes they don't understand the need for a savior yet, but it can be a process for some. In the Lord's timing, He reveals Himself to them.

When they see that your life is not bound by this world, it intrigues them. When Jesus' light shines through the darkness, and they see that your solid in the midst of chaos, they wonder why...

Every minute of the day is a witness to and for the Lord. It doesn't matter if it is in a church, marketplace, baseball game or in a jail cell... Christ is to be preached to the lost.

So to answer your question if we should stand side by side with unsaved sinners in a church setting...

Yes. Not everyone is called to be an evangalist, pastor or a teacher, but we are called to preach Christ amongst the Nations. Some may do this at a street corner, others may do this by inviting them to a church. Others may do this by loving those who are tormenting and torturing them... it really matters not, as long as Christ is preached.

Yes, we should allow sinners in our services, and the true gospel of Jesus Christ should be preached so that the Holy Spirit will have the opportunity to convict them of their sins.

The problem with many churches in this country is that sinners are made to feel confortable in our services and they even leave the service feeling good about themselves.

The true gospel being preached would effect sinners in one of two ways. Either they would recieve the message and being convicted of their sins would be saved, or they would reject it and become so uncomfortable in that atmosphere that they would not want to go back to that place.

Mike

I am simply going by statistics that say that 60-70% of Americans have been 'born again.'

Not an assumption.

And I know for a fact that the great majority of those within that % are going to hell, because Jesus said, Many will say Lord Lord, and that few will find entrance.

My question is this... Is it biblical / possible to function as the True Church while allowing the nominal Christians 'church attendance' week by week?

I would say... Kick em out or get em saved. There is no middle ground.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5

I'm not including those that you speak of, the honest searchers who are willing to bend the knee to the Lordship of Christ.

I'm talking about those who say they are saved, and yet they live as children of the devil.

You will not find any place in scripture, apostles or disciples of Christ, bringing unbelievers to 'church' or group meetings or worship services or fellowship or the communion table in order to get them saved.

Who are we to do the things that those great saints of past did not do?

Are we not to follow the Word of God, and to bring every thought and deed captive to the Word of God?

Should not our weekly fellowship reflect what is found in the Word of God?

Or shall we continue in the traditions of men, because 'it works?' When apparently, it doesn't.

The most godless and disgusting nation on the face of the earth. USA.

IWantAnguish wrote:

I would say... Kick em out or get em saved. There is no middle ground.

Brother. I respect that this is your opinion. If this is how you feel and are feeling lead to this from the Lord, who am I to refute?

But you have quoted that, [i]"You will not find any place in scripture, apostles or disciples of Christ, bringing unbelievers to 'church' or group meetings or worship services or fellowship or the communion table in order to get them saved."[/i]

Nor will you find

I would say... Kick em out or get em saved. There is no middle ground.

You will find warnings on non-belief, but nothing to do with a gathering unless in willful sin.

This really has to do with personal preference. Who are any of us to tell someone attending a church to leave because they may not be as far along in their walk as we are? Is there now a requirement that one HAS to be saved before they can come to a worshop service?

I will tell you this, I would rather be in the midst of a bunch of unsaved sinners then in a "holy huddle" at worship. Again, preference.
:-)

Anguish,

I totally misunderstood what you were asking so I deleted my first answer because I do not want to be associated with this ... this... this...
anti-semitism (sp?) against God's people who YOU declare not to be God's people. Amazing arrogance on your part, if you ask me. On page three, I have some questions for you!

...[i]but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. [/i]
Ac 10:28b

I do not believe that we should be kicking sinners out of the Church. On the other hand, many Christians have gone door to door trying to get sinners to come to church. However, the church is not a building, the church is the Body of Christ, and we are called to be witnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ, ministers of reconcilation. The Church needs to bring the good news to the sinners, wherever they are at. This might be the work place or even the grocery store. We come into contact with sinners every day. If we would begin to believe God for souls, and to open the door for us to witness to sinners, HE would do so. It is time that we take the Word of God outside the four walls of the church building and start being the Church that the Lord has called us to be.

Mike

I agree Mike,
I would say that the body of Christ should not rely exclusivly (or even primarily) on the gathering together of Christians for worship, correction, teaching, and the sacrements, ie "church", for evangelism. I liked what Ray Comfort has said- "a good open air preacher can reach more unsaved people in one day than many churches do in a year". I don't think that we must exclude unbelievers, but if the bible is being faithfully taught, they will either leave on their own or the seeds of the gospel will be watered.

Those sinners in Jesus' time knew they were sinners, and in desperate need of a savior.

Oh you mean like the Pharisees? I don't think they cared about being "saved" if it meant coming to Christ, and they would be the first ones to say, "kick those sinners out, so we can have a pure religion!"

And to answer your other question about there not being any mention in the Bible about "mixing" saints and sinners, how about when Christ spoke of the wheat the tares?

hi, a friend of mine shared his testimony with me and it fits nicely in this area... he was brought to church one week and saw how at the end of the service some women would go to the altar and leave their purses in the pew... next week he came to get him a few purses... he got behind some rich looking ladies and sat down... at the end of the service he was the first at the altar weeping over his lost condition... should we allow sick people in hospitals? the Holy Spirit is able and willing to bring people to Jesus... i go to a church that baptizes 40 to 50 people a week and it is not the only great church in the city.jimp

We would be wise to define prophesy in this particular passage... Translated directly from the Greek, prophesy would mean 'to speak before.'

Basically, what a preacher does every Sunday. He stands up and prophesies before men, or, speaks before men.

This is relevant because true prophets will speak forth the truth, with authority from on High... This would bring conviction of sin to the unbeliever, while a fellowship of people speaking in tongues would make unbelievers think of Christians as insane.

Thus you have the false prophets (Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen, etc.) Men who speak lies before men, not necessarily that they falsely predict the future.

==================

Of course those seeking Christ (yes...I agree there is none that seeks after God... :-P yet, let us set election and free-will aside for the time being) The honest seekers looking for answers to questions about the state of their soul will come to the worship service... Should we cast out those whom the Holy Spirit drawing? By no means.

Should the majority of our 'church' services include the lost nominal 'Christians?' As well as the lost, carnal heathens who clearly have no appetite / desire for God?

Or should we present a Gospel message that is so utterly radical that it would shake them to the core of their being, and shock them into life?

I believe the reason our 'churches' are so filled with the damned is because we do not present the Gospel in such a way for them to clearly accept or clearly reject it. Thus we run around with however many % of goats along with however many % of sheep, and nothing substantial ever gets done in terms of Kingdom service.

You can call me a Pharisee if you want, but I believe a little leaven leavens the whole loaf. If you're comfortable with that... then I would pray for you.

-edit for clarification-

hi, i do not understand brothertoms post... 45yrs of watching the power of God move on the hearts of people so that their lives were changed but not hardened by the religious spirit that surely rules in the hearts of those that continue to eat of that tree of the knowlege of good and evil. God is love and he who abides inGod abides in love ...he who knoweth not love knoweth not God...thousands of people have been truly saved over these years and are walking in the spirit because they were born of the spirit of a living God who loved them enough to send His son to die for such a worm as i.jimp