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Theology

When was your church founded?

sermonindex Dec 1, 2009

Church \tYear Est. Founder Where Est.

Catholic/Orthodox \t33 \tJesus Christ \tJerusalem

Lutheran \t1517 \tMartin Luther \tGermany

Anabaptist \t1521 \tNicholas Storch &
Thomas Munzer \tGermany

Anglican \t1534 \tHenry VIII \tEngland

Mennonites \t1536 \tMenno Simons \tSwitzerland

Calvinist \t1555 \tJohn Calvin \tSwitzerland

Presbyterian \t1560 \tJohn Knox \tScotland

Congregational \t1582 \tRobert Brown \tHolland

Baptist \t1609 \tJohn Smyth \tAmsterdam

Dutch Reformed \t1628 \tMichaelis Jones \tNew York

Congregationalist \t1648 \tPilgrims and Puritans \tMassachusetts

Quakers \t1649 \tGeorge Fox \tEngland

Amish \t1693 \tJacob Amman \tFrance

Freemasons \t1717 \tMasons from four lodges \tLondon

Methodist \t1739 \tJohn & Charles
Wesley \tEngland

Unitarian \t1774 \tTheophilus Lindey \tLondon

Methodist Episcopal \t1784 \t60 Preachers \tBaltimore, MD

Episcopalian \t1789 \tSamuel Seabury \tAmerican Colonies

United Brethren \t1800 \tPhilip Otterbein &
Martin Boehn \tMaryland

Disciples of Christ \t1827 \tThomas & Alexander
Campbell \tKentucky

Mormon \t1830 \tJoseph Smith \tNew York

Methodist Protestant \t1830 \tMethodist \tUnited States

Church of Christ \t1836 \tWarren Stone &
Alexander Campbell \tKentucky

Seventh Day Adventist \t1844 \tEllen White \tWashington, NH

Christadelphian (Brethren
of Christ \t1844 \tJohn Thomas \tRichmond, VA

Salvation Army \t1865 \tWilliam Booth \tLondon

Holiness \t1867 \tMethodist \tUnited States

Jehovah's Witnesses \t1874 \tCharles Taze Russell \tPennsylvania

Christian Science \t1879 \tMary Baker Eddy \tBoston

Church of God in Christ \t1895 \tVarious churches of God \tArkansas

Church of Nazarene \tc. 1850-1900 \tVarious religious bodies \tPilot Point, TX

Pentecostal \t1901 \tCharles F. Parkham \tTopeka, KS

Aglipayan \t1902 \tGregorio Aglipay \tPhilippines

Assemblies of God \t1914 \tPentecostalism \tHot Springs, AZ

Iglesia ni Christo \t1914 \tFelix Manalo \tPhilippines

Four-square Gospel \t1917 \tAimee Semple
McPherson \tLos Angeles, CA

United Church of Christ \t1961 \tReformed and
Congregationalist \tPhiladelphia, PA

Calvary Chapel \t1965 \tChuck Smith \tCosta Mesa, CA

United Methodist \t1968 \tMethodist and United
Brethren \tDallas, TX

Born-again \tc. 1970s \tVarious religious bodies \tUnited States

Harvest Christian \t1972 \tGreg Laurie \tRiverside, CA

Saddleback \t1982 \tRick Warren \tCalifornia

Non-denominational \tc. 1990s \tvarious \tUnited States

K
KingJimmy Dec 1, 2009

I am the church, and it was founded a long time before I was ever part of it. Jesus established it.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2009


My Church was founded at Pentecost, Acts 2:38. :-D

K
Know-Him Dec 2, 2009

It is an interesting point; Most people when they speak of their church, speak of the building they worship in or the denomination that they belong too. Church for many equals a man made building or organization rather than the Bride of Christ.

P
PaulWest Dec 2, 2009

Nice try. These are all denominations and movements and cults. That said, everything looks good here except that the Roman Catholic Church was founded circa 313 AD with Emperor Constantine establishing himself as the head. Funny that you failed to mention that.

Again, this is not a RCC forum, and you will not find many here who are sympathetic to Roman doctrine. It seems we've been through this before and you were politely asked not to promote Rome's error here. Why have you come back to instigate? What is the purpose of this provocation?

sermonindex Dec 2, 2009

It's funny how these guys lift up their "church" rather than the founder, a true mark of a false brethren.

You hear it in their eloquent speech, "come to our church to hear the truth". Whatever happened to come to Jesus and repent of your sins?

Peter never said to come to a Church to hear the truth, the Holy Ghost has the truth that will lead and guide into all truth, not a Church or all it's creed.

Anyone that points to a Church building is the same as Christs warning: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Matthew 24:26

These people will point you to everyone but Christ. Even God said, This is my beloved Son: hear him. Mark 9:7

Every religion has a gimmick to point you away from Jesus Christ. Some of them will even say Jesus is the way, but they will offer you another book, like the book of Morons...oops, Mormons.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Dec 2, 2009

Good points, Brother Paul.

Not only that, but there is only one true "Church" -- and it has little to do with the organization or hierarchy of men.

Those of us who know and belong to God are a part of the Body of Jesus Christ. It is not confined to certain prerequisites of obedience to sectarian dogma or "doctrines" (aka [i]explanations[/i]) of men. When we stand before God, He isn't going to determine our salvation by which church we attended or whether or not we fulfilled certain doctrinal "requirements" as explained by man. He will know His own by a name that appears in a certain Book of Life.

The inclusion of a name in that Book has nothing to do with denominations or allegiance to particular doctrines as taught by churches, denominations or sects. The ultimate question is what it takes to have your name written in that Book. The Word of God says that everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13). Were you willing to trade all of the promises and pleasures of this life to simply know and have a relationship with the Lord? Do you love Him and desire Him above all things -- including the "Church?"

K
KingJimmy Dec 2, 2009

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.

Rome does the exact opposite. Rome is no bond servant, it is a master.

G
ginnyrose Dec 2, 2009

haydock,
Ok, I am dense, but mind telling me the point of this post?

I see all these dates and names and my mind goes "so what?"

ginnyrose

G
ginnyrose Dec 2, 2009

haydock,

Another question: mind telling me where in the scriptures it tells us that belonging to a certain church group has the ability to impart salvation, redemption to its members?

ginnyrose

L
Leo_Grace Dec 2, 2009


ginnyrose wrote:
haydock,
Ok, I am dense, but mind telling me the point of this post?

I see all these dates and names and my mind goes "so what?"

ginnyrose


He is boasting erroneously that the RCC was founded by the Lord Jesus himself. As Paul West pointed out, the RCC was actually founded by a politician to latch on to the growing popularity of the Christian movement. Since then, they've been claiming apostolic succession, which would be true if they would limit themselves to being political apostles of Emperor Constantine.

G
ginnyrose Dec 2, 2009

Leo,

Thanks! for the explanation...

Haydock, do you agree with Paul West and Leo?

ginnyrose

M
Miccah Dec 2, 2009

This post reminds me of the "my dad can beat up your dad" arguement in grade school.

Funny thing though, did anybody's dad ever fight it out? :-)

L
Leo_Grace Dec 2, 2009


Miccah wrote:
This post reminds me of the "my dad can beat up your dad" arguement in grade school.

Funny thing though, did anybody's dad ever fight it out? :-)

Well, my Dad, the Lord Jesus Christ, can whip haydock's "dad", the Emperor Constantine, any day of the week and twice on Sundays. :-?

sermonindex Dec 2, 2009

by PaulWest on 2009/12/1 16:04:10 Nice try. These are all denominations and movements and cults. That said, everything looks good here except that the Roman Catholic Church was founded circa 313 AD with Emperor Constantine establishing himself as the head. Funny that you failed to mention that.

Go look and see. Constantine was NEVER a pope or any kind of head of the Church. Do you believe everything you read from Jack Chick? This is such an easily disproven misnomer.

Have you ever read the ante-Nicene (before Constantine) church fathers? If you did, you'd probably panic and have to become Catholic.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2009

haydock, Another question: mind telling me where in the scriptures it tells us that belonging to a certain church group has the ability to impart salvation, redemption to its members? ginnyrose

"Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body." - Eph. 5:23

sermonindex Dec 2, 2009

Leo,

Since then, they've been claiming apostolic succession, which would be true if they would limit themselves to being political apostles of Emperor Constantine.

Since when? Since when have we claimed apostolic succession? Constantine?

May I have the honor of enlightening you with fact? Here you go:

"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops s in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties." Pope Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).

"For what is the bishop but one who beyond all others possesses all power and authority, so far as it is possible for a man to possess it, who according to his ability has been made an imitator of the Christ off God? And what is the presbytery but a sacred assembly, the counselors and assessors of the bishop? And what are the deacons but imitators of the angelic powers, fulfilling a pure and blameless ministry unto him, as…Anencletus and Clement to Peter?" Ignatius, To the Trallians, 7 (A.D. 110).

"Hegesippus in the five books of Memoirs which have come down to us has left a most complete record of his own views. In them he states that on a journey to Rome he met a great many bishops, and that he received the same doctrine from all. It is fitting to hear what he says after making some remarks about the epistle of Clement to the Corinthians. His words are as follows: 'And the church of Corinth continued in the true faith until Primus was bishop in Corinth. I conversed with them on my way to Rome, and abode with the Corinthians many days, during which we were mutually refreshed in the true doctrine. And when I had come to Rome I remained a there until Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And Anicetus was succeeded by Soter, and he by Eleutherus. In every succession, and in every city that is held which is preached by the law and the prophets and the Lord.'" Hegesippus, Memoirs, fragment in Eusebius Ecclesiatical History, 4:22 (A.D. 180).
"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:2).

"Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true. To these things all the Asiatic churches testify, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time" (ibid., 3:3:4).

"Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth, so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. . . . For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient churches with which the apostles held constant conversation, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question?" (ibid., 3:4:1).

"[I]t is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church—those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the infallible charism of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth" (ibid., 4:26:2).

"The true knowledge is the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient organization of the Church throughout the whole world, and the manifestation of the body of Christ according to the succession of bishops, by which succession the bishops have handed down the Church which is found everywhere" (ibid., 4:33:8).

Constantine was an Arian sympathizer. We do not even claim him as a saint or a pope. God knows his fate. But these men above wrote so many years before Constantine that claims that Leo and others have been making are ridiculous.

Leo, do you retract your statement now that you see it is patently false?

M
Miccah Dec 2, 2009


haydock wrote:

haydock, Another question: mind telling me where in the scriptures it tells us that belonging to a certain church group has the ability to impart salvation, redemption to its members? ginnyrose

"Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body." - Eph. 5:23


Um... Not even in the ball park of context of the question asked.

Haydock, try glorifying the Lord, and not a man made institution.

K
Know-Him Dec 2, 2009


haydock wrote:

Have you ever read the ante-Nicene (before Constantine) church fathers? If you did, you'd probably panic and have to become Catholic.

When you begin to take your doctrine and teachings from the writings of men rather than basing them on the Scriptures, then you end up with all sorts of error.

L
Leo_Grace Dec 2, 2009

haydock,

I retract nothing. There is nothing in what you have posted that legitimizes the Roman Catholic Church. Your claims to apostolic succession cannot predate the creation of the RCC by Constantine. On the other hand, here is a factual quote from the Biblical Discernment Ministries:

[i]The Roman Catholic Church, in its pagan form, unofficially came into being in 312 A.D., at the time of the so-called "miraculous conversion" to Christianity of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reigns of his pagan priesthood to the Bishop of Rome. However, the family of Constantine did not give up the last vestige of his priesthood until after the disintegration of the Roman Empire -- that being the title the emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood -- Pontifex Maximus -- a title which the popes would inherit. (The popes also inherited Constantine's titles as the self-appointed civil head of the church -- Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Bishops.)

Prior to the time of Constantine's "conversion," Christians were persecuted not so much for their profession of faith in Christ, but because they would not include pagan deities in their faith as well. Then, with Constantine's emphasis on making his new-found Christianity palatable to the heathen in the Empire, the "Christianization" of these pagan deities was facilitated. For example, pagan rituals and idols gradually took on Christian meanings and names and were incorporated into "Christian" worship (e.g., "saints" replaced the cult of pagan gods in both worship and as patrons of cities; mother/son statues were renamed Mary and Jesus; etc.), and pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holy days (e.g., the Roman Lupercalia and the feast of purification of Isis became the Feast of the Nativity; the Saturnalia celebrations were replaced by Christmas celebrations; an ancient festival of the dead was replaced by All Souls Day, rededicated to Christian heroes [now Hallowe'en]; etc.). A transition had occurred -- instead of being persecuted for failure to worship pagan deities, Christians who did not agree with the particular orthodoxy backed by the Emperor were now persecuted in the name of Christ! "Christianized" Rome had become the legitimate successor of pagan Rome! This is the sad origin of the Roman Catholic Church.[/i]

You said:

Have you ever read the ante-Nicene (before Constantine) church fathers? If you did, you'd probably panic and have to become Catholic.

Haydock, have you ever read the Bible, the perfect and infallible Word of God? If you did, you would die of shame for the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church that you uphold; you'd probably repent and have to become a Christian instead of a Roman Catholic. I suggest you try reading the Bible before you post again.

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