Charles Spurgeon on Charles Finney

The past generetions of spiritual giants like John Wesley, George Whitefield, Charles G. Finney, Charles H. Spugeon were men with great hearts and stong convictions. My heart aches when i read today about christians who speak disrespectly against men of God of the past days. For those who honor Spurgeon as a great preacher let them heed what he adviced to his students about Finney.

The following by Spurgeon on Finney is from his Lectures to my students, second series , "On Conversion As Our Aim", page 185:

"Exhortations, entreaties, and beseechings, if not accompanied with sound instruction, are like firing off powder without shot. You may shout, and weep, and plead, but you cannot lead men to believe what they have not heard, nor to receive a truth which has never been set before them. “Because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge.”

While giving instruction it is wise to appeal to the understanding. True religion is as logical as if it were not emotional. I am not an admirer of the peculiar views of Mr. Finney, but I have no doubt that he was useful to many; and his power lay in his use of clear arguments. Many who knew his fame were greatly disappointed at first hearing him, because he used few beauties of speech and was as calm and dry as a book of Euclid; but he was exactly adapted to a certain order of minds, and they were convinced and convicted by his forcible reasoning. Should not persons of an argumentative cast of mind be provided for? We are to be all things to all men, and to these men we must become argumentative and push them into a corner with plain deductions and necessary inferences. Of carnal reasoning we would have none, but of fair, honest pondering, considering, judging, and arguing the more the better."

What i found interesting enough is that the great giants of the past like Tozer, Ravehill, Paris Reidhead, Jonathan Goforth, Oswald J.Smith, R. A.Torrey, D.L.Moody, A.J.Gordon, A.B.Simpson ect, ect, had great respect for the revivalists of the 19th century.

How few have experimental knowledge of Jesus Christ today and fewer are those who exercise the spiritual senses. Its a wonder to me the lack of spiritual discerment and of spiritual taste on the christian literature read by many. Our dead and suffocating fundamentalism, pentecostalism, evangelicalism is the woe of today. The deadly farisaical spirit is well and alive in our midts.

Spurgeon would not have been proud today if he knew the accusations and slanders that his "admirers" spread about the deeds of a man of God who is with him enjoying the presence of Jesus in heaven.

Spurgeon the "Prince of Preachers" and Finney the "Prince of the Evangelists" were great soul winners and wise fishermen.

I am not an admirer of the peculiar views of Mr. Finney, but I have no doubt that he was useful to many

I love how God works, how He thinks, and how he deliberatly obliterates the presuppositional molds we set up to legislate how He must move. It keeps me humble; it prevents me from adopting a condescending view of my own theological persuasion whereby God is permitted to operate soley under. I may disagree profoundly on some points with Finney, but Finney is still counted a brother to me; I read his essays and profit from them. I am staggered by the accounts of how God shut down entire cities, secular universities, emptied out jails, factories as men fell on their faces and besought God for repentance. And I am equally staggered by the awesome testimonies of men like Father Nash, and other prayer warriors who would labor in sweat and tears, wrestling with God for days before Finney would arrive in town...and then how Satan's kingdom would be smashed after he preached, and the "worst" drunkards, criminals, and other opposers of religion would get gloriously saved - and many of them would later go into lifetime missions.

As usual, Spurgeon speaks with great wisdom, balance, insight. I too wish that other reformed brethren might avail themselves to the awesome immensity and sovereignty of God.

Brother Paul

A man does not have to have his theology airtight to be used mightily of God, and praise God for that. If we had to have our theology right for God to use us, God would never have anyone to use.

There are two extremes that rob us of all that great men and women of God of the past give to us. One is exactly what you describe. It is the attitude that because I do not agree with all of the person's doctrine, I cannot receive anything form him and even despise him. We miss out on so much that God has to say through that person. The second is an extreme veneration of a man and his teachings. It is the attitude that, "I am a follower of _________ and I disagree with anyone who disagrees with him." It divides us into factions and sects. See 1 Corinthians 1-3.

Ultimately, I am responsible for digging into the word of God and comparing all doctrines taught by men to that word. If a man misses it and he is not a heretic, then I disagree with that particular teaching without despising the man and the gift that he is to the body of Christ.

We do need to give honor where honor is due. God has had imperfect men who were yielded and surrendered to His will, who He used in mighty ways in their time. I praise God for these men who went before.

Travis

There are two extremes that rob us of all that great men and women of God of the past give to us. One is exactly what you describe. It is the attitude that because I do not agree with all of the person's doctrine, I cannot receive anything form him and even despise him. We miss out on so much that God has to say through that person. The second is an extreme veneration of a man and his teachings. It is the attitude that, "I am a follower of _________ and I disagree with anyone who disagrees with him." It divides us into factions and sects. See 1 Corinthians 1-3.

Now, I'm certainly not saying we have to agree with each other on all points; and in certain instances the term [i]"heretic"[/i] must be applied and Titus 3:10 obeyed, but, thankfully, I've found that these occasions are exceptional.

I would like to add this, its Charles Simeon speaking With John Wesley, and i think it shows both sides have much more in common then they think, some use of terminology and words may differ but often they meen the same for both groups they just word it differently. Yes there are some differences to :-) but i like this....

[i]So you call yourself an Arminian. People call me a Calvinist; and therefore we are supposed to argue about finer points of theology. But before we start fighting, may I ask you a few questions? Do you think that you are a depraved person, so depraved, in fact, that you would have never turned to God if God had not put it in your heart first?

Yes, I do indeed

And do you reject your coming to God with your works as the source of your righteousness, and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ?

Yes, solely through Christ.

And since you were at first saved by Christ, do you try to continue to be saved by something other than him?

No, I must be saved by Christ from first to last.

Since then you were first saved by the grace of God, do you need to keep yourself saved by your own power?

No.

Are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, just like a baby in his mother’s arms?

Yes, altogether.

And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you so that you will be able enter into his kingdom?

Yes, I have no hope but in Him.

Then, let me say, my friend, that this is what Calvinism is. This is election and justification by faith, and perseverance. This is really all there is to it and nothing else. Therefore, instead of searching for differences in language and definitions and having that be a source of contention between us, can we please be united in these things that we agree on?[/i]

and this little quote from Chrles Spurgoen is also very worth meditating on. How often have I broken fellowship, cut of a brother, looked down upon those whi differ from my understanding of scripture? in my heart..... and i am not saying we should not discern anything and let everything under the sun pass for Christianity, the sad truth is i think most of what is paraded as Christianity is very far from it. But in this case, Arminian vs Calvinist i think is not such a case where there should be any tension at all, other then towards our own imperfect unloving heart that according to this wisdom want to fight its enemy, and defend my "right" vies and understanding and making me superior to my brothers who hold another view.

Anyway read brother Spurgeons words:

[i]How surprised we will be to meet some saints in heaven whom we did not love on earth! We would not fellowship with them at the Lord’s table. We would not acknowledge that they were Christians. We looked at them suspiciously if we saw them in the street. We were somewhat wary of all their actions. We suspected their zeal as being nothing better than a show and an exaggeration, and we looked on their best efforts as having sinister motives at the heart. We said many unkind things, and felt a great many more than we said. When we see these unknown and unrecognized brothers and sisters in heaven won’t their very presence naturally remind us of our offenses against Christian love and spiritual unity? I can’t imagine a perfect man, looking at another perfect man, without regretting that he ever treated him in an unkind manner: it seems to me to be the trait of a gentleman, a Christian, and of a perfectly sanctified man above all others, that he would regret having misunderstood, and misconstrued, and misrepresented one who was as dear to Christ as himself. I am sure as I walk among the saints in heaven, I cannot (in the natural order of things) help feeling “I did not assist you as I ought to have done. I did not sympathize with you as I ought to have done. I spoke a harsh word to you. I was alienated from you;” and I think you would all have to feel the same; inevitably you must, if it were not that by some heavenly means, and I don’t know how, the eternal God will so overshadow believers with the abundant bliss of his own self that even that cause of tears will be wiped away.[/i]

Now, I'm certainly not saying we have to agree with each other on all points; and in certain instances the term "heretic" must be applied and Titus 3:10 obeyed, but, thankfully, I've found that these occasions are exceptional.

Absolutely so. A heretic is one who brings a schism into the body and divides. A heretic is not a believer who has missed it on a doctrinal point yet remains changeable and teachable. I recall a time in my own life when I held the view that was consistent with the body I grew up in, but, as I can see Biblically now, was inconsistent with the teachings of Christ. Those who had gone before me, though great men and women of God who loved Him and moved strongly in the gifts of the Spirit, etc., had missed it on this point. I was teaching high school mathematics at the time, and had a young lady in the class who held a very strong Christian witness in the school where I taught. We sometimes discussed scripture briefly after class. One day she and a friend walked into my classroom and in the course of the conversation that ensued, this doctrine came up. She very nicely said, "Well I just don't see how that can be the case because...." I thought about what she said for some time. I was a very traditional pentecostal, she was a very traditional baptist. I disagreed with, I am sure, a number of doctrinal fine points that she had been taught all her life. I could have dismissed her as young and ignorant or wrong because of her denominational affiliation. Instead I began to dig into scripture and came to the conclusion Biblically that she was right.

We must remain teachable and hold our particular doctrinal nuances loosely. We must allow God room to change our minds on things. We must value God's ability to bring revelation to others that, perhaps, we have not received ourselves and take their viewpoint seriously to the extent that we do not reject it outright simply because that person is a Baptimethodicostal, or whatever name they put on themselves.

Travis

We must remain teachable and hold our particular doctrinal nuances loosely. We must allow God room to change our minds on things. We must value God's ability to bring revelation to others that, perhaps, we have not received ourselves and take their viewpoint seriously to the extent that we do not reject it outright simply because that person is a Baptimethodicostal, or whatever name they put on themselves.

Travis

Paul wrote:

"I love how God works, how He thinks, and how he deliberatly obliterates the presuppositional molds we set up to legislate how He must move. It keeps me humble; it prevents me from adopting a condescending view of my own theological persuasion whereby God is permitted to operate soley under. I may disagree profoundly on some points with Finney, but Finney is still counted a brother to me; I read his essays and profit from them. I am staggered by the accounts of how God shut down entire cities, secular universities, emptied out jails, factories as men fell on their faces and besought God for repentance. And I am equally staggered by the awesome testimonies of men like Father Nash, and other prayer warriors who would labor in sweat and tears, wrestling with God for days before Finney would arrive in town...and then how Satan's kingdom would be smashed after he preached, and the "worst" drunkards, criminals, and other opposers of religion would get gloriously saved - and many of them would later go into lifetime missions."

Amen brother. I remember as a young christian in faith to have read the bio of Finney and his godly life and powerful ministry would inspire me to seek after God and long for the Holy Ghost unction. I remember from Finney's autobiography, when revival came in a town called Rome and people were under conviction of the Holy Spirit. A Sheriff came from another town to Rome for business and as he was approaching the town about 1 mile away felt awe-stricken and felt as if God pervaded the whole atmosphere and later on was convicted and converted. This phenomenon has been experienced in other historical revivals, when people were gripped by the presence of God without anyone preaching to them (the Hebrids revival for example).

When God rents heaven and stepps down thats when revival comes. When an anointed preacher lifts up the cross and preaches Jesus Christ and sinners and backsliders under conviction of sin repent and believe Him, the miracle of regeneration and sanctification will take place. There is no doubt in my mind that Finney was one of the most useful instruments in the hands of God to lead thousands and thousands to the experience of regereration and sanctification.

I dont know whether is ignorance, fear, prejudice that leads some christians not to pay due respect to godly men. God's principles in the bible never change, they are the same from generation to generetion but the methods to reach the lost can change.

The alter call and decision-based evengelism has been abused today and many come forward to "accept Christ" without conviction of sin and repentance and as a result millions profess to be 'born again' but live ungodly lives.

What in the 19th century they called the "mourners bench" or "anxious seat", was practiced first by the methodists in their revival meetings, not Finney.

Timothy Smith wrote this about these methods:

Long promotion of camp meetings had stamped Wesleyanism with a fervor which city churches expressed in yearly seasons of special religious interest called "protracted meetings." Here sinners were bidden each night to the "anxious seat," or mourner's bench, devised about 1808 in a crowded New York City chapel to enable saints to deal with seekers more conveniently. 12

During the Second Great Awakening, when the gosple was preached with mighty power and people under Holy Spirit conviction were often in desperate need for salvation. They wept and mourned for their sins and pled God for mercy and seekers would come forward and seat in a special place for spiritual counsel, help and prayer and i mean not the "sinners prayer" as is popular today. But they were not declared saved unless it was evident that God had done a new thing and brought them from spiritual death to new life in Jesus.

As for brother Finney he has this to say:

It is a settled point with me, that while backsliders and sinners can come to an anxious meeting and hold up their head and look you and others in the face without blushing and confusion, the work of searching is by no means performed, and they are in no state to be thoroughly broken down and converted to God. . . . When sinners and backsliders are really convicted by the Holy Ghost, they are greatly ashamed of themselves. Until they manifest deep shame, it should be known that the probe is not used sufficiently, and they do not see themselves as they ought. When I go into a meeting of inquiry and look over the multitudes, if I see them with heads up, looking at me and at each other, I have learned to understand what work I have to do. Instead of pressing them immediately to come to Christ, I must go to work to convict them of sin. Generally by looking over the room, a minister can easily tell, not only who are convicted and who are not, but who are so deeply convicted as to be prepared to receive Christ. Some are looking around and manifest no shame at all; others cannot look you in the face and yet can hold up their heads; others still cannot hold up their heads and yet are silent; others by their sobbing, and breathing, and agonizing, reveal at once the fact that the sword of the Spirit has wounded them to their very heart. . . . [There must be] that kind of genuine and deep conviction which breaks the sinner and the backslider right down, and makes him unutterably ashamed and confounded before the Lord, until he is not only stripped of every excuse, but driven to go all lengths in justifying God and condemning himself. 13

Wise counsel and great discernment. Before we rush too quickly and blame a servant of God for the woes of medern day shallow evengelism and counterfeit conversions, better search deeper into the facts of history and not base our convictions on the prejudices of theologians.

Finney was against the idea that is so popular today, that a person can accept Christ anytime they hear the gosple preached without any conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit. In an article he adviced his fellow ministers:

But without this (conviction of sin) they cannot understand or appreciate the gospel method of salvation. One cannot intelligently and heartily ask or accept a pardon until he sees and feels the fact and justice of his condemnation. . . . It is absurd to suppose that a careless, unconvicted sinner can intelligently and thankfully accept the gospel offer of pardon until he accepts the righteousness of God in his condemnation. Conversion to Christ is an intelligent change. Hence the conviction of ill desert must precede the acceptance of mercy; for without this conviction the soul does not understand its need of mercy.14

Spiritual discernment and testing all things and holding fast to the good is what we need today.

With the same unbiased zeal that i speak of Finney, i would have spoken of Whitefield or Spurgeon or any other Spirit filled christian, if they were victims of slander and prejudice as 'poor' Finney has been unfairly. Im not a follower of any party.

*** Edited ***

A word fitly spoken like apples of gold in settings of silver.

The more I read about church history the more amazed I am at how God uses, so vividly, men and women of so many different theological persuasions. This is a confirmation of what the Spirit has been convicting me of. Sectarianism is making me want to vomit more and more. I listened to this sermon today and Pastor Zac Poonen annihilates any reason to raise Paul above Appollos.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=14798&commentView=itemComments

Bump, I found alot of good post and descided to bump this thread up rather than start a new thread on a simmaler subject

Hey, now this is a good thread. Thanks for the resurrection. I had forgotten about it, and it was nice to reread all the comments!

Spurgeon preaches me into a state of rest most evenings.

Though his sermons are sooo good that the effect often backfires and I lose sleep, instead. Not only is he one of the best preachers, EVER...but he is like a best friend, too.

And he speaks truth from God's Word on EVERY subject imaginable!!! I keep copies of his sermons in the cupboard of my bed's headboard. He literally preaches me to sleep like a lullabye which keeps the nightmares away.

And his sermons have an almost telepathic effect. This saint and I are about two and half centuries apart...different in gender, race, culture, yet he "gets" me?!? His sermons reach right in and just irrigate every nook and cranny of my thoughts, fears, neuroses, hopes, wishes, prayers until my eyelids rest like butterflies on a flowerbed.

How does he know me? I just marvel as I read and listen to his sermons stream with a command of the English language like lyrics to a favorite song. His language is Wow! I love this man...so much! He is like a dad to me. A spiritual mentor. I quote him often and folks look at me like I'm crazy...so what?

Have you actually read his sermons? What a writer and speaker? Gifted, truly. We have nothing in common but Christ, which makes him closer to me than my own heartbeat, at times. Spurgeon is family. He affirms the strength of spiritual connection in Christ. And he's not even on this planet anymore.

Yet, saints like Spurgeon who speak so intimately to the very psyche of a fellow Christian also affirm one's sense of utter loneliness, isolation and irrelevance in the world.

God, this man IS among those whom I have never ever met, yet closer to me than any person that I have ever known on this earth. And most folks that I know have never, ever heard of Spurgeon, nor would care to know him.

And as a Christian, I often find myself standing in this socially abyssmal gap where I "have more friends above than below" (as Spurgeon often says).

Spurgeon is one of "my people" that I will be gathered to when the time for me has come. Frienships in Christ are truly eternal in their effect and significance and intimacy. But now...what a dungeon this place can be. When I turn the last page of one of Spurgeon's sermons, I get sad like a prisoner returning from an all too brief visitation.

He's that great of a writer, speaker and preacher to me, anyway.

Love-in-Christ,

KP