Protecting Possessions

[b]Protecting Possessions[/b]

Our adversary, the Devil, stands before the Father continually accusing the brethren of their sin. The blood of Jesus Christ covers us only insomuch as we stand in agreement with Him. If we deny that we have sinned, we are not covered by the blood in that sin. Accordingly, if we deny the Divinity of Christ in any area, it is in that area that Satan is allowed to have full reign. This is why it is essential that we surrender all to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Anything that we do not surrender is subject to attack from the enemy for he knows that we are not covered in that thing by the very fact that we have not given it to the Lord and therefore he can prevail. This can be anything from love of food, to love of family, to love of our freedom.

We have absolutely no hope of standing against the enemy in our own strength. If we think we can, it is because we have been blinded by the enemy. Satan is a spirit. He is invisible and is capable of affecting the minds of all of mankind. We are but mere human beings – our only hope is in Jesus Christ.

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

Our adversary, the devil walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. When we take ourselves out from under the covering of our Lord, we subject ourselves to the wiles of Satan. We put ourselves in agreement with the enemy who is then able to direct our steps. He can lure and control us by that thing that we have not surrendered - that thing that we are holding onto as if it were our own.

Our God is a sovereign God. He is in control of all of our circumstances. All that we have is at His good pleasure and all is truly His. It is when we desire to possess something, or someone, that the problem arises. When we are unwilling to let go of something that the Lord requires, we are in essence saying that we love that thing more than the Lord. We are telling Him that we do not trust that He is watching out for our best interest. We are telling Him we know best. We are telling Him that we would rather be our own god. It is here that we are choosing the creature over the Creator, and it is here that we turn our backs on God, for it is that which we love that will be our master - and we can not serve two masters. This is also where we choose Satan for he is the prince of the world and all that it contains.

Dear HeartSong,

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

When David fought Goliath to defeat him because of his insults against God, was it because he did not trust God to deal with the situation? When the Jews stood guarding the walls with their swords as they rebuilt Jerusalem, was it because they did not trust God? When Esther and Mordecai went before the king to save the Jews, was it because they had no faith in God? When the Apostles Paul and Barnabas went forth to preach the gospel, was it because they did not trust God to accomplish this?

No! On the contrary, all these actions are/were done by faith and in obedience to God's teaching. Are we not instructed by the Lord in Scripture to do all the things that he commands?

[i]Isa 58:6-9 [color=CC3300]“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and [b]not to turn away from your own flesh and blood[/b]? Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color]

1Ti 5:8 [color=CC3300]If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.[/color]

Isa 1:17 [color=CC3300]"learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow."[/color]

Pr 31:8-9 [color=CC3300]“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."[/color]

Jas 2:14-17 [color=CC3300]"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."[/color][/i]

I'm sorry to contradict you HeartSong, but your concept of having faith in God is simply not Biblical, and that short dialogue with God that you presented is a product of your imagination. God is not interested in drama (fasting, burnt offerings, phylacteries, etc.), he wants living faith proven by active obedience.

Our faith is proven by our action. Unless specifically directed by God otherwise, lack of action by a Christian when such action is clearly needed to help others is a sign of dead faith (Jas 2:17).

Dear Leo_Grace & HeartSong,

A very thought provoking thread. When I read the first post to my husband he did not agree. as Leo did not. He pointed out that we installed deadbolts on our doors, not because we did not trust God but to be prudent. God gave us the wisdom to know we should not tempt Him. We live in a neighborhood full of drug users. A door that was so unprotected would be an open invitation. We are aware that if they truly wanted inside they would break a window. We do what we are allowed to do and trust God for all. We feel He provided the means of buying and installing those deadbolts, it was not through our own strength.

It is marvelous how well He cares for us, of course, to the worldly people we appear poverty stricken. That makes me smile, for I know how rich we are in Jesus. Praise His wonderful Name.

white stone

This is a true story that I thought I should post in relation to the thoughts on this thread. It happened about 20 years ago:

[i]A middle-aged Christian named Danny belonged to a large church that he attended with many other fellow Christians on a regular basis. At the end of each Sunday service, Danny, together with dozens of his brothers in the church, would ride the public bus, Bibles in hand, for the ride home. Danny was a small man, short of stature and scrawny, and his brothers from the church were relatively bigger and well-built physically.

One Sunday, on the bus ride home from church, a non-believer took the same bus and started picking on little Danny. The bully insulted and derided Danny verbally, punched his thighs, slapped him in the back of his head a few times, all the while making fun of his Protestant faith. Danny took in all of this abuse without fighting back. He knew that as a Christian he was to exercise forbearance and humility in the face of an attack on his person. Danny did not hate the bully for the man was not of the faith, and was acting out of ignorance. What did disturb Danny immensely was the fact that there were dozens of able-bodied Christian "brothers" with him on that bus who wouldn't lift a finger to help him. Some of them simply averted their gaze while others (he found out later) prayed that God would intervene in Danny's behalf while they themselves did nothing.

Danny was deeply impacted by the event, not by what the bully did, but by what his "brothers" did not do. Danny was extremely disappointed that so many Christians on the bus, who openly professed a new life in Christ, were unwilling, when the opportunity arose, to "lay down their lives for their friend" (Jn 15:13). Danny said that if it was someone else being attacked, he would have gladly given his life in defense of that friend.[/i]

He shared this experience with a Christian leader who then shared it with us.

We are called to be the salt and the light of the earth -- to bring glory to God that others may praise him and draw near. When we fail to act, the salt has lost its saltiness... (Mt 5:13-16)

Dear DT,

I acknowledge the possibility (though I think it unlikely) of your interpretation of the event. It is possible that God instructed those dozens of able-bodied Christians to just sit still and let Danny be beat up.

However, in the face of the following clear commands by Christ himself:

[i]Jn 13:34-35 [color=CC3300]“A new command I give you: Love one another. [b]As I have loved you, so you must love one another[/b]. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”[/color]

Jn 14:15 [color=CC3300]“If you love me, you will obey what I command."[/color]

Jn 15:12-14 [color=CC3300][b]My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends[/b]. You are my friends if you do what I command."[/color][/i]

Is it right to just ignore these commands of Jesus, and instead of taking immediate action, to pray for other commands?

Greetings Leo

These brothers in Christ could just as easily stood up and placed themselves in the path of this attacker, shielding Danny and allowing the blows to fall upon themselves with out ever fighting back and I believe they would have demonstrated their love for both Jesus and their brother by doing so??

Just a thought
God bless
maryjane

Dear MaryJane,

You are right. Maybe it would have been unnecessary to take any blows at all. Bullies are basically cowards who pick on the weak because they cannot defend themselves. If even one or two of these "brothers" had stood up in Danny's defense, I believe the beating would have ended without need for further action.

It was their willingness to defend Danny that was the issue here. If they had all simply stood up in protest (dozens of them), that bully would have left the bus with a palpable respect for Christian "brotherhood".

In Christ,
Leo

Edit: P.S. thank you for sharing too, DT.

DeepThinker wrote:
I realize your intention of posting that true story, so I don't want to take that away.

What do you think could have been done?

I know that If I was Danny I would have taken it because I have been beat up several times and I just took it. I hope you understand the angle to which I am coming at this. I am not short like Danny, I am tall over 6 feet, but when someone is hitting me, like Danny I just let them hit me. Whether there be Christians or not, I wouldn't be looking at them for my help. Our help cometh from the LORD.

I can and will accept Danny's and yours interpretation of this story. I was just sharing mine.

Thanks for sharing it.

8-)

Danny did accept the beating without fighting back, for he understood as you do that this is the way of a Christian in matters of personal affront. The burden that was laid on his heart was regarding the actions of brothers who were watching all these. He wasn't looking to them for help for himself; he was looking to them for obedience to the teachings of Christ.

As a result of this experience, Danny took lessons in the martial arts -- not to defend himself, but to be able to defend others. He was resolved that, as a Christian, no one should suffer such abuse or injustice in his presence; that he would always stand up in their defense. Danny's resolve, I believe, is Biblical and one that should be shared by all Christians.

Edit: I took my original post down because it was to much off topic.

Hello...

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

I used to volunteer to drive the church van while I was in college. A woman who immigrated from El Salvador was a frequent guest in the van. She had immigrated illegally into the United States, but had been given a green card when she married (and later divorced) a man in the US. She was very poor, but often almost "boasted" about how God cared for her needs. This woman was very critical of people who she accused of living in wealth -- which she concluded was pretty much every American. She told many tales about how badly that people had it in El Salvador, and that Americans could never put up with such conditions. She accused people of having a lack of faith because they didn't live like she did.

One day, another college student who was also riding in the van finally grew tired of this woman's constant criticism. He asked her if she locks her door at night. She admitted that she did, but that was in order to be "as wise as serpents." The college student pointed out that someone, if they wanted to, could point out that she "lacked faith" that God would care for her possessions. However, she claimed that everything that she had belonged to the Lord. He explained that this was easy for her to say because she didn't have anything -- especially a family.

Now, this woman didn't work. The student explained that she claimed to rely on "God" to care for her -- but that she freely received government welfare. She lived in a government housing project. The government paid her utility bills. She received government assistance for food. Her clothing and many of her other needs were usually donated by people who actually worked or by the Church which, he pointed out, was also funded by people who worked. This woman boasted that she was never sick...but she admitted that she went to the doctor (paid for by the government) for certain medical procedures.

Now, this college student did not mean to offend this woman or point an accusatory finger at her. Rather, he wanted to highlight that it seemed that SHE was the one who seemed to be accusing others of a "lack of faith" when she was living off of the benevolence of the government and other believers. He reminded her of the parable of the rich young ruler. Jesus told the young man that he lacked one thing -- to go and sell all that he had and to give the money to the poor...and then to come and follow Him. Jesus said that the man left very sadly, because he had great wealth. The student told the woman that it is more difficult for the "wealthy," because they have so much (Matthew 19:21-22). Transversely, it would be [i]easier[/i] for the poor...because they have so little in the first place. The student reminded her that, by her own admission, even the poor people in America are "rich" compared with people in El Salvador. He told her that it might be more meaningful for the woman to make such a boast if she STILL lived in El Salvador.

Of course, the woman was greatly offended by the student (even though he didn't try to offend her). I think that he had a point...although I think that it might have been pointless to argue with her. It is "easy" for people to cry "non-resistance" or total "non-involvement" if they don't have to face constant persecution for the faith. Let those same people move to Iran...Saudi Arabia...Somalia...Sudan...Darfur...China...Cuba...North Korea...or some other persecuted land. If they are so willing to lay down their lives (and, of course, the lives of their family members in their "care")...and if they are so sure that God supernaturally protects them from "disease" or "sickness," then let [u]them[/u] go as missionaries to those lands that are so effected.

Of course, perhaps I am just babbling a bit. However, I feel that God has placed certain things (namely, my family) in my care. I also do my best to be a good steward of the other things that God has placed in my care (from material things like a house, car or money -- to responsibilities like my job, etc...). After all, God has given more "talents" to certain people. We are to take all that God has given us and use it for His glory and to increase His kingdom.

It is "easy" for people to cry "non-resistance" or total "non-involvement" if they don't have to face constant persecution for the faith.

Now come on, Chris, you know better then this! You are not that ignorant of church history, are you? Go study Anabaptist history and you will find many who were as lambs led to the slaughter and really were killed. And they did not fight back. Also, go to the News forum here on SI and read “Christian Elephants”.

Here is a website where you can read the accounts of people who were persecuted, who did not fight back:

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/contents.htm

Here is a book that has become a classic - it was initially printed in 1954 - "Coals of Fire" by Elizabeth Hershberger Bauman. Check it out.

This story has become a classic:

"No story of an Anabaptist martyr has captured the imagination more than the tale of Dirk Willems.

"Dirk was caught, tried and convicted as an Anabaptist in those later years of harsh Spanish rule under the Duke of Alva in The Netherlands. He escaped from a residential palace turned into a prison by letting himself out of a window with a rope made of knotted rags, dropping onto the ice that covered the castle moat.

"Seeing him escape, a palace guard pursued him as he fled. Dirk crossed the thin ice of a pond, the "Hondegat," safely. His own weight had been reduced by short prison rations, but the heavier pursuer broke through.

"Hearing the guard's cries for help, Dirk turned back and rescued him. The less-than-grateful guard then seized Dirk and led him back to captivity. This time the authorities threw him into a more secure prison, a small, heavily barred room at the top of a very tall church tower, above the bell, where he was probably locked into the wooden leg stocks that remain in place today. Soon he was led out to be burned to death.

"Some inhabitants of present-day Asperen, none of them Mennonite, regard Dirk as a folk hero. A Christian, so compassionate that he risked recapture in order to save the life of his drowning pursuer, stimulates respect and memory."

Now having said all this, you are right on one count: there are many who will say they are non-resistant until they are faced with a trying situation: they will cave in to demands in order to escape apparent injury or violence.

On the personal level, if a person were to attack me, I would be no match physically since I am a short, elderly woman. Always was short. Long time ago I decided that it is God's responcibility to protect me from evil people because I have no way to protect myself. I am physically weak. I am no match against brute strength. God has honored my trust in that it has liberated me from unnecessary fear for my well-being. If I do sense any fear, I just pray more earnestly for Him to protect me. But I do know if ill were to occur to me, he allowed it and that there is nothing I could have done to prevent it.

This is my take on this issue...

ginnyrose

Hi Ginnyrose...

Now come on, Chris, you know better then this! You are not that ignorant of church history, are you? Go study Anabaptist history and you will find many who were as lambs led to the slaughter and really were killed. And they did not fight back. Also, go to the News forum here on SI and read “Christian Elephants”.

On the personal level, if a person were to attack me, I would be no match physically since I am a short, elderly woman. Always was short. Long time ago I decided that it is God's responcibility to protect me from evil people because I have no way to protect myself. I am physically weak. I am no match against brute strength. God has honored my trust in that it has liberated me from unnecessary fear for my well-being. If I do sense any fear, I just pray more earnestly for Him to protect me. But I do know if ill were to occur to me, he allowed it and that there is nothing I could have done to prevent it.

However, there is a different matter when it comes to those of whom God has placed in my care. I would certainly lay down my life for my wife or family. If an intruder came into my home and attacked my wife or child, I wouldn't think twice about reacting to protect them. This is NOT violence. This is not [i]personal[/i] resistance. I certainly wouldn't target the attacker in the hope to harm [i]him[/i]...but to prevent [u]him[/u] from harming those under my care. This is being a watchful "vessel" through which God cares for their protection. I don't have to wait for elephants...or animals...or falling bricks if a simple action (like a 911 phone call, wrestling an intruder or a locked door) could protect my family.

Now, I am impressed that God would send elephants to destroy the homes and machinery of persecutors. However, for every elephant that stomped on the homes/bodies/machines of attackers, there are many other believers who suffered for the faith throughout history. In many cases around the world (like the Anabaptists), there weren't any elephants to save them. Many of them died.

Now, I do believe that God can send animals to protect believers. However, I also believe that God can send policemen. In this nation (at least, currently), the police would actually PROTECT people like the Anabaptists, Mennonites, Quakers or even unbelieving pacifists. If an intruder came into a believer's home, would that believer simply allow the intruder to do as he wishes? Would they call the police to intervene on their behalf? If asked, would they tell the police that everything is alright (and no action on their part is required)? If God can send an elephant, He can also send a policeman. If God can send a policeman, He can also use a husband (or even a locked door) to care for the physical needs of that man's wife or child.

I don't believe that it is a "lack of faith" or evidence of a "violent heart" to protect my wife or child from an attacker (whether human or animal). I don't think that it is a "lack of faith" to lock my doors at night either.

However, I also believe that God can send policemen.

He can also send a policeman. If God can send a policeman, He can also use a husband (or even a locked door) to care for the physical needs of that man's wife or child.

I agree. Doesn't make sense, does it?

It is not that we do not believe in self-defense, it is "how is it done?" Confused some more? Likely.

Romans 13:1-7 informs us of the function of the state: to protect the good and being a terror to evil. According to this scripture we are to cooperate with this authority. In Acts Peter says one should obey God rather then men after they were arrested for speaking about Jesus. Apparently, obedience has its limits.

If someone were to break into our home, I would also work to protect myself and whoever, whatever. However, I would not shoot to kill. (In reality we do not even own a gun.) But if the intruder would be a government agency, shooting would earn you some free lodging if not putting you six feet under.

In summary, I do not live in fear for my personal safety. If persecution were to occur, God will give one wisdom on how to deal with that when the time comes. Of this I am confident because he gave me the strength to cope with the death of an adult DD 14 years ago that was astounding. Today, God gives me strength and I will look forward to see what life will give me. In the meantime I will work to live life to the full. I will ask the LORD to show how I can bless someone today. Now this gets really exciting!

God bless you all...
ginnyrose

ginnyrose wrote:

It is "easy" for people to cry "non-resistance" or total "non-involvement" if they don't have to face constant persecution for the faith.

Now come on, Chris, you know better then this! You are not that ignorant of church history, are you? Go study Anabaptist history and you will find many who were as lambs led to the slaughter and really were killed. And they did not fight back. Also, go to the News forum here on SI and read “Christian Elephants”.

As Chris pointed out, the circumstances and the opportunities are vastly different. Not to mention that we Christians are already martyred the moment we truly receive. There is no need to seek out a greater form of martyrdom -- that is just an illusion. Our martyrdom is to obey God with our lives. In previous posts I've listed clear Biblical instructions for us to defend the fatherless, oppose injustice, free the oppressed, and never turn away from the needs of our own flesh and blood. The "martyrdom" we need today is one of action, not inaction.

The admonition by Isaiah against inconsequential piety rings true even today:

[i]Isa 58:5-9 [color=CC3300]"Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for a man to humble himself? Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed and for lying on sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?

Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color][/i]

I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.

Greetings Leo

You wrote:I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.
___

Leo this statement that you wrote really just filled my heart with such sadness. I agree that there are those on both side of this issue that go to far. Please know that there are many of us who have spent many hours in the Word and prayer seeking the Lord on this matter, please do not discount that. TO say that you lay the blame for the anti christian bent of the government on us is really a very divisive attack that only serves to feed the enemy and cause divisions. Truly you have no idea the amount of time that is spent in prayer for the leaders of this country and those that are lost. Please know that just because one feels strong conviction not to take part in the proceeding of the US government does not mean that we do not have faith or that we are responsible for the current state of affairs that now plague this country.

I know you love the Lord please allow that those of us who do not agree with your stand love the Lord as well. Perhaps more time spent in prayer and daily living one to another, to be about His Kingdom is called for? After all how many votes have saved a lost soul from the fires of hell?? Isn't our time spent sharing and caring for one another, submitting our lives unto Him daily, and interceding on the behalf of the lost a worth while way to put our faith into action too???

I ask you to prayerfully consider this brother
God Bless
maryjane