Higher Education

I have not been able to enjoy myslf here as much as I would like, due to school starting up for me and having to look for a new job.However, I wonder how many of you have had any formal theological training? If so, where? If not have you learned by yourself, or from a study with a group? I am preparing to go to seminary (maybe) in a year, and I would like to know more of you alls background. PS. I realize I wrote "you alls", and I almost changed it, but I am from Oklahoma, so I left it.

krtrek, Don't hold back. Tell us what you really feel. Actually, I feel the same way, and I guess I was too much of a wimp to say it before. That is why I posed the question, because I wondered if any of you had formal education. I have had a very big debate in my mind for about 5 years now about the importance of seminary. I find some who swear by it, and some who swear at it. Any more thoughts from anyone?

I'm with Ktrek! (for the most part)I'v always had a desire to serve the Lord and yet I have never thought Bible college to be right for me. Hungry for God after graduation, my mother called Leonard Ravenhill for me to ask if he could recomend any good Bible school. I was surprised when he told her no. He said that every Bible school he visits he finds kids excited about every subject except the Lord. He advised me to pass on Bible school and just read 2nd Timothy every day for a month. While I'm sure that there are certain advantages to Bible school, for the most part I have seen them generate little more than swelled heads. It amazes me that the general lay people in today's church think that Bible college is a must for ministry, the danger of this is that lay members who have not attended any such school see themselves as unfit for ministry and leave the brunt of ministry to the "qualified" ministers. The body of Christ is becoming more and more unbalanced.I am currently in full time ministry, however it was not my education that led me to this posistion, it was my experience. I still have no formal Bible training, but I love and consume the word of God daily. I do not claim to be called into ministry, I just understand the importance of eternal things and have chosen to devote my live to them. I will continue to do this in or out of a full time ministry posistion. If you can go to Bible school and keep your love and passion for the Lord, then go for it. You can't know the word of God too much, just don't let it become a source of pride. God will judge us by what we did, not the information in our heads.PJ

Well guys you have hit on a topic that has been of great concern to me lately, I feel that the Lord is calling me deeper to serve in a greater capacity for Him.....I have a tendency to be a more structured learner and have a tendency to look for the way to be printed out for me. So with that I have been looking for a bible school as well, but as you well know the "menu"is endless and the I don't have a clue as to where to start, or to start at all.Maybe I"ll take Ravenhills advice and read second Timothy for a month. Ultimately I know I need training in his word, for myself and not to make an impression on others...but do I step up to the plate and allow the Holy Spirit to do this or continue to look for an "institution" to guide me?...but where could I find good solid biblically based teaching without gaining more of the "flavor of the hose" than of those teaching. I know that Times Square Church has a school but it is based more for younger adults(I just turned 40!!!) and those that feel that they have been called to the mission field, (which is not totally out of the realm for me as of yet) what do you think?

sdb,Have you considered home courses? If you're disiplined, this could work well for you. I am currently enrolled in Berean University, this is a home based Bible curriculum for the Assemblies of God. It is required to become credentialed with them. It's the same material that is covered in A/G Bible colleges, you just do the work at home. You can go the cheap route, or you can pay quite abit extra for college credit. I am currently enrolled, however, I am quite the undisiplined student, so I am not getting very far.Nothing wrong with Bible School as long as you can keep the fire. Just seek the Lord and let him guide you.PJ

I am currently attending Lee University's Charlotte Campus, which is affiliated with the Church of God (Clevland, TN), going on to my second semester. I am personally have mixed feelings about Bible School/Seminary. I plan to go all the way with my education. However, I am only doing so for my "circumcision of academia." (as I like to call it) Not because I expect to learn a ton of things about the Lord and the Scriptures that I have not already known. Though, that is not to say I will not learn anything. I would say so far, there are some classes where I actually have learned good things. Mostly, as far as I can tell, academic learning is mostly for the purpose of giving you the tools to be able to read and write on a higher level. Thus, if "the clergy" start speaking their funny speak, you would be able to know what they said, and be able to act accordingly. There is some good stuff, but, I suppose it depends what you want to do with that stuff you learn. A lot of academic learning is just so you can be fluent on a number of thoughts.

"Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John, and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were marveling, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus" Acts 4:13 (My emphasis).I have used the "cemetary" description for "seminary" more times than I can count, so I think you can count me with Ktrek. Consider for a moment that today's "biblical" higher education is very much like the system the pharisees and sadducees had in Jesus' day; it was the arrogance and seeming "authority" that their education had given them that led them to reject Jesus:Matthew 21:23 And when He had come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him as He was teaching, and said, "By what authority are You doing these things, and who gave You this authority?"Tragically, I have seen this at work many times in the Church today -- so often I see someone with a genuine message from the Lord dismissed because of their lack of "covering" or "credentials." The interesting thing is that historically God has usually worked (with some exceptions) through the uneducated -- those who are simple enough to actually believe what the Bible says.Now comes the interesting part (I think): I am currently receiving formal training in biblical studies (although not at a seminary but at a secular institution). I am confident that I am in the will of God in so doing. (Edited: I am afraid that this has been misunderstood; please see my post later in the thread for clarification.)Essentially, what is most important is that we enroll ourselves in the School of Christ -- He is the only Teacher we need. If we think we will gain spiritual understanding through formal training, we have begun the process towards spiritual death. All formal training can do is provide one with the tools to dig deeper, but if we have not already dug into the Person of Christ, it will be of no benefit at all (one can't dig deeper if one hasn't already started digging). Instead, it will simply inflate our egos. Once we have become permanent students in the School of Christ, he may send us through institutional formal training (for whatever purpose). I, however, think these cases are rather rare and are the exception rather than the rule. Those who are considering formal training must definitely be led of God -- be absolutely certain that it is His will before you move. If in doubt, just dig into the Scriptures, which are far better than any seminary or Bible school (unfortunately, many seminaries and Bible schools spend time everywhere BUT the Bible).

I think it all depends on one's heart. If you are sincerely going out of a pure desire to know GOd more and you feel that God is leading you, then I say go. If you are going because you don't trust that God can teach you just as much if not more without going, I say pray more about it because you probably have a serious faith problem and don't know and trust God very well. There's lots of stuff that's not in Scripture that most consider to be ok. For instance pulpits, choirs, programs (man made) to sponsor, help, and feed the poor and needy, pipe organs, piano's, paintings, man made internet sites with audio sermons on them, books on prayer and/or revival, New Testament's! The list could go on and on. Some think that they have the insight to know where to draw the lines. Sure the legalistic people that Jesus came against had theological schools. They also memorized Scripture, so is that wrong? And is "scripture memorization" ever specifically prescribed in the Bible? I see meditating, but not memorizing. You may say that it is implied or is a practical way of achieving the end of hiding the Word in your heart, abiding in the Word, etc. But similar arguments could be made for going to a theological school. I think it's can be dangerous and it's wise to use caution here, but it's not clearly wrong. Who has the authority to draw absolute lines about things that Scripture doesn't draw clear lines about? I think the only possible person who has the authority to do this (besides Jesus communicating to each individual) is a pastor to his flock. But I am not even sure about that.I just graduated from Westmont, a "Christian" institution but it's considered a "liberal arts college." I am considering more academic training but don't think I will do it. I am hungry for experience in the field. I have thought for awhile now that if you want to learn big lessons, you have to take big chances. Theological school can commonly be an easy, comfortable, and sensible "next move." We just have to seek the Lord and trust Him and not shy away from the calling.

I am afraid that perhaps my first post has been misunderstood a bit. I stand with Ktrek here -- the institution has choked every bit of Christ and the life out of the Body that it has been able to do thusfar. The day is coming and now is that God will say "come out of her, my people, that you do not share in her sins."Quote:"Yes. I believe that it is God's will for many people to go into secular and even bible schools to get training the in the WORD of God."This is a misunderstanding of my post; keep in mind that Jesus is the Word of God. It is also a fallacy to assume that Bible school and seminary focuses purely on Scripture in the first place. Ktrek is correct in saying that the first order of business is to learn tradition, doctrine, and business. Scripture may be used for this, but it is no more profitable than using Scripture as kindling for one's fireplace.I made the comment that I am currently undergoing a formal education dealing in large part in biblical studies. I think it is necessary to point out that this is being done at a secular institution (Florida State University -- one of the benefits of a secular education is that there is less opportunity to become entrenched in Church tradition, but the difficulty is that one is constantly faced with humanism). As much as anything, I serve as a walking testimony to others in my department, including the professors who rarely encounter someone who genuinely knows the Christ of the Bible.My purpose in taking this route has never been to grow in Christ; this is not dependent on what I study, but upon how I live and whom I serve. I know God has led me down this route, but it is clearly not to be a part of the institutional church, nor to revive something that cannot live (for it is an abomination to God). Rather, by the very fact that I do know Jesus Christ, I serve as a witness of Jesus Christ to the scholars and students with whom I study. I had this witness before I began taking this major, and by God's grace will have this witness upon completion of my studies.Again, I must emphasize (for I do not think it was understood clearly the first time) that it is only the life of Christ within us that can teach us. Jesus is the only Teacher (those who disagree with me can take that up with Jesus himself -- Matt 23:8). Higher religious education (or secular biblical studies education for that matter) will not bring one into the knowledge of Christ. Reading all the reference materials and revival books in the world and listening to sermons will not do it either. Dare I say it: reading the Bible and praying will not produce the Life of Christ either.Remember that the Pharisees did all this (plus fasting!) and rejected Jesus (he wasn't part of their system). Most of the biblical studies professors I have had (I say "most" because I have had one who was a genuine believer and a testimony of Christ) do not know Jesus Christ -- despite the fact that they know the Bible incredibly well.The only thing that can produce the life of Christ is to fully surrender one's life to Christ. Then and only then can one's spirit and mind be awakened to the truth in Scripture. Only then one can truly pray. If we are seeking this power in education, we are seeking it in the wrong place and it will bring disappointment and death.What then is the purpose of religious higher education? Most of the time, it is useless. On occasion, God will call someone (Paul, for example) who either already had this education or will call someone to go through this type of education for the purpose of bringing glory to God. But God can only receive glory from one who is a true witness with the life of Christ within them. It is no different than being a businessperson who is a missionary to the business world. Some are missionaries to scholars (a hard task!).Be warned: if you pursue God through established institutional lines, you will lose him among the pathways of men. If you pursue God on his terms, he will live in you and you will go wherever he sends you as a witness of this life. Only choose "religious education" (whether it be secular, seminary, or Bible college) if one is certain that God is sending one there as a witness and with a purpose. It will not aid one's search but will instead bring confusion to one who is not firmly grounded in the Rock of Christ.

When I first sensed the call to preach, I immediately enrolled in Bible college. I soon found that this had been a mistake on my part. I was not ready spiritually or emotionally for Bible college. I was still living in a state of spiritual "high" as a result of my experience when God called me to preach. The academics weren't really the problem, I just was not ready to be around so many people who it seemed to me were not really serious about God. Anyway, after two semesters, I was done with at least THAT Bible college. To be sure, there were a lot of good things available there that one could learn. (I still would really like to learn biblical Greek and Hebrew), but at least for me at that time in my life, it was not the sort of spiritual environment I needed. I eventually pursued correspondence courses in Bible and ministry, while working at my local church in whatever capacity the pastor asked. I would like some day to attend seminary, not to become "a professional" so much as to study in a more structured and challenging environment than just studying on my own at home, as well as the interaction with other sincere students of God's word. While I certainly agree that higher education CAN have negative effects upon Christian spirituality, we should always keep in mind that one of the greatest revivalists ever, John Wesley, had an earned master's degree from Oxford University. Wesley was once taunted by an uneducated preacher who said, "I was talking to God the other day and he told me that He didn't need your education." To which Wesley replied, "You're certainly right. But neither does God need YOUR ignorance." LOLPeople I have known personally who have sought seminary or Bible college training have in fact all admitted that without the presence and teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit, all their education amounted to nothing. Education only supplies a person with tools for ministry, like learning how to examine Scripture to better grasp its meaning or how to prepare an effective sermon or how to lead a counseling session, etc. How well a person allows the Spirit of Christ to lead them in their ministry depends not on anything other than their prayer life. In Christ,John Earphttp://revivaltheology.net

Kevin,Earlier I said that I was with you for the most part, however, I think that you are wrong to be so absolute and judge others as not spiritually mature to think different than you. Yes, for the most part I have seen Bible schools to have more of a negative impact than positive, but I am in no way ready to say that they are not or could not be of God. I have no desire to go to a dead lifeless Bible School, but if the Lord was to resurect the disciples, Ravenhill, Wigglesworth, etc, and give me a chance to spend a year or ten years to learn under these men, I would jump at the chance. Would this not be a type of school? Would I be unspiritual to desire such teaching? Do you read any other book besides the Bible? Is this Biblical? Is reading other books not a form of "higher religious education?" One of the greatest problems I see with Bible schools is that they focus too much on imparting imformation that can not really change lives. I could not think of a Bible school that I would recommend in today's world. However, if an institution existed that was led by Godly men who were on fire for God and they could effectively teach the word or God, fire, prayer, and could turn spiritual babes into men, I would say go for it.Still with you for the most part, just not so absolute!PJ

KtrekSpiritual education is what is really important and I think the best thing you can do is find a place with like minded believers who want to walk in love and work out the truth together. You will experience more growth in 4 years in this kind of environment tha you would ever get in a seminaryOutstanding comment!Welcome to SermonIndex School of The Most High!(My apologies to Greg.... ;-))I have been enrolled here for two months and have gotten more knowledge, more encouragement, found more truth, more of our Lord in more people who have a heart for the truth, who genuinely care and want to learn and share than in any church or setting so far to date. I pray I never graduate!Mike