End-Time View

I was curious as to what end-time views are represented here on SermonIndex, not for debating purposes but to get a feel for where the Body stands at large on this issue.

If you would care to comment, it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the millenium: pre, a, or post.

If pre-millennial, where do you see the rapture: pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.

I realize there are other views, but these seem to be the dominant ones. If yours isn't listed please post it anyway. Again, I'm not looking to hash it out over which view is superior, but merely learn which we are persuaded to hold on to as fellow believers.

*Edited for spelling errors*

I will not argue with God when I am being raptured :)

I would consider myself post-trib pre-amill. I am historicist on most of Revelation, with some idealism mixed in. I believe we are still before the "millenium", but I don't believe the millenium will be a literal thousand years or a literal earthly kingdom, but it will be visible for the sorting out for judgment.

Make sense? doesn't to me either ;-)

Like, Greg, I don't argue about timing and such (anymore, I used to though).

I hold to a belief in premillennialism.

I'm not convinced of a "rapture" but I do believe in the resurrections; one at the beginning of Christ's 1,000 year reign and one at the end.

God bless you brother if you believe differently!

PS: (edit) A lot of people do not agree with me on this point but this is just how the Lord allowed me to see it. Live as to attain the first resurrection. His word says, "[i]blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection[/i]."

I am pre-millenial, and am against getyour-prophecy-and-eschatilogical-understanding-from-the-newsism.

I bet that is the longest ism someone has ever made up here...

Revelation is fundamentally about Jesus Christ, and I think a lot of people miss the verse that points that out at the beginning. It seems to me that the forest is missed for the trees a lot. I am always blessed when I just take what Revelation says at face value. I honestly am often troubled a bit at how the Church and politicians have used Eschatology to further ideological and political agendas. I have a hard time reconciling that in my mind to be honest.

I can learn a great example from the two witnesses, I want to worship like those in Heaven, I want to ask myself which letter and which church I am sitting in, The 144,000 are the most amazing followers of Jesus and I want to be like them. I want to come out of Babylon by faith just like Abraham did, and I cannot wait until the New Jerusalem is established. I long to eat from the tree of life, free from sin. I long to see God make everything right. Where I fit into all that is beyond me...God knows. I trust he will do right when He sits in his holy sanctuary and no-one can enter as he pours out his wrath.
Above all things, I want Jesus physical rule and reign...there will be nothing like it. I long for this more deeply in my heart than any other thing in life. Jesus is my King, my Lord and my God forever and ever to the glory of God the Father...

Not a bomb at all. There are so many views on this that you would have to live in a cave if we disfellowshiped with everyone over it. I agree too that I want Christ Ruling now just as much brother.

The bible is clear though that the hope of his return is purifying.

Oh LORD, I hope this thread stays sane. After I drop this bomb maybe it won't.

I hold to the Preterist view, which I believe is more accurate to Apostolic teaching

I am pan-trib: however it pans out...

I believe what Art Katz does about the end-times. Pre-mil, post-trib, the Jews going through a second holocaust, the near destruction of the modern state of Israel, the church coming to maturity and provoking the same Jews who have been exiled throughout the nations unto salvation.

I am still really considering a lot of the things Art Katz said...it is a lot to chew on and digest, and certainly not a common belief, I cannot help thinking though, that his views dramatically seem to reflect the consistent nature and heart of God in so many ways. I am excited about the next book that Burning Bush is going to release in a few weeks about this exact topic.

I would like to suggest to all of us that the Lord Jesus is very likely-- almost certainly, I would say-- going to appear in a way that we are not expecting... and which has the potential to be a stumblingblock to those who have pretty much made up their minds they know His itinerary.

It's better to seek very earnestly to simply be abiding in Him, now. That vantage point, and that alone alone, when He appears, shall enable us to see and understand clearly and not be put to shame.

"And NOW, little children abide in Him, that when He shall appear, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming" (1 Jn. 2.28).

Hi Deepthinker,

I won't fall out with you over this. Your bomb has no dynamite! ;-)

There was a resurrection of the saints that occurred AFTER Christ rose from the grave (at what point is uncertain). I believe in a "catching away", but not how the mainstream portrays it. However, I am like Greg, I won't dis-fellowship with anyone on this issue.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Hi ADisciple,

I would like to suggest to all of us that the Lord Jesus is very likely-- almost certainly, I would say-- going to appear in a way that we are not expecting... and which has the potential to be a stumblingblock to those who have pretty much made up their minds they know His itinerary.

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

As believers if we are walking in the light and awake we should NOT be surprised!

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It won't be something quiet like the first coming.

Every Blessing. Have a good Christmas!

It's very interesting to hear different views on this.

Whatever view, it'll be wonderful when the Lord returns, whenever that may be.

I'm pre-trib, pre-millenial myself. Granted there is very little Scripture to support a pre-trib position. However one thing that I often ponder is that the tribulation period is a period of judgement. As Christians (truly born again believers) we have been judged at Calvary so it makes no sense to judge us again.

This is just a thought and I'm sure many of you will see error here.

Merry Christmas everybody.

David

I will have to fall on the side of,,,

No special secret pre-trib rapture
A resurrection of the saints and catching away sometime toward the middle or latter half of the tribulation.
I think the preterist view is rather odd scripturally, but it doesn't cause me to stop loving and respecting my brother. Just can't reconcile his view.

As I heard someone say, it seems as though the prophetic books are beginning more and more to read like yesterday's newspaper. One thing I do believe, it is time to look up, for my redemption draweth nigh.

Heard an interesting quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu when speaking with someone who was talking to him about Jesus being the Messiah, which he, as a Jew, does not believe. He said, "I am not sure about that, but when the Messiah does come I will ask Him, sir, have you visited our country before?" I guess when Jesus does return we will all be 100% sure about our eschatology.

Travis. :-)

Heydave wrote:
I agree that we don't know all the detail and that there is a danger in being dogmatic about the exact sequence of events, however......

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

As believers if we are walking in the light and awake we should NOT be surprised!

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It won't be something quiet like the first coming.

Every Blessing. Have a good Christmas!

Hi Dave,
It wasn't so much the sequence of events as the Way He shall appear that I had in mind as being something unexpected... and which His own would find difficult to grasp.

Even the first time He appeared it was necessary that a man be sent before Him to prepare the people. There was a well established theology back then as to how the Messiah was supposed to appear. He didn't appear that way. Those who received John the Baptist's ministry were ready for Him, and received Him in His appearing. Those who did not... crucified Him.

And so in our day, we deeply need this preparing ministry similiar to John the Baptist... to prepare the way of the Lord. I notice the tense in Matthew 17.11. "Elias truly SHALL come first, and restore all things." Then He went on to say that yes, Elijah had come already, preceding His first appearing. John the Baptist.

But "Elijah" is yet to come prior to His second appearing, prior to "the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD" (Mal.4.5).

I want to have the kind of heart that is teachable, and open to receive, if and when some God-sent ministry in the spirit of "Elijah" comes along and begins to wash the eyes of my understanding, washing misconceptions away.

...I believe the passage you quoted from Thessalonians is very pertinent.

...A very blessed Christmas to you, too, Dave... and to all of you!