A Sad & Disappointing Experience

sermonindex Dec 24, 2009

I was in Philly some time ago, with a young friend who was excited about Calvary Chapel, North Philly (Pastor Joe Focht). It was Sunday. A large gathering, about 1000. The speaker: KP Yohannan. He took a Bible verse and then used it (as a tag or hook) to speak of his project or programme in Asia.

Sunday is the Lord's Day. I thought the Lord would speak to us through His servant (whoever that may be). Sad to say, the message was just an advertisement for GFA, and we left the church feeling (i) There was no presence of the Lord in church that day; (ii) The folks in CC North Philly seemed to think it okay not to receive the Lord's word on Sunday, and their idea of worship seemed to be to submit to what may be called the 'sale of indulgences' (helping orphans in South Asia, through promising financial assistance on a regular basis).

I thought Sunday in church meant that we would get to 'meet the Lord' or the 'presence of the Lord'. Guess, projects & programmes mean more to CC North Philly than preaching Christ!

S

sojourner7 Dec 24, 2009

You really don't realize that the LORD is working
through ministries {such as GFA} to help the
orphans in Southeast Asia ?? Isn't building
missions and orphanages the LORD's work, too ?? :-o

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

I was referring to Sunday as the Lord's Day, a day to worship the Lord and to experience His presence.
Let Christ be preached, and the gospel of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross, and the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of crucified believers. The rest will follow. :-)

PS. Besides, if Mr KP wanted to project his project, Focht should have given him Sunday evening for that purpose. We gather on Sunday to worship the Lord! (That's final. :-) )

W

wind_blows Dec 25, 2009

Hey procyon

You wrote:We gather on Sunday to worship the Lord! (That's final. )
_____

Seriously this was your compliant against this church? Everyday that we are here belongs to the Lord not just Sunday...I worship Him and seek to follow Him everyday. I also think that we should gather together and worship Him on any day of the week, better yet on every day of the week:-)

in Him

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

Of course, it depends on what you mean by worship. I mean worship in spirit and in truth, John 4.23, 24.

'Projecting a project' (GFA, Health Insurance or otherwise) is NOT worship. :-)

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

Sunday is the Lord's Day

Sunday is NOT the LORD's day. The LORD's day has come and it's the REST that is in Christ Jesus to which we must enter into. If you personally chose to take Sunday out as your day to spend with God, that is your choice, but it's not the LORD's day. Our Sabbath is in Jesus Christ.

'Projecting a project' (GFA, Health Insurance or otherwise) is NOT worship.

There are other things that are just as important than a sermon. In the early day of the church the Greeks were coming to the Apostles because their widows were being neglected in the daily ministrations. The Apostles chose out seven men full of the holy Ghost who should look after the matter. The Apostles "projected a project" for these men to take care of because it's important that all the Church be looked after. It's no different for GFA to ask Christians to make donations to that organization for there be many widows there that are not getting their daily ministration.

You should be careful what you say about this, these men are hazarding their lives for the name of Jesus in these countries. Asking for money to help spread the good news over there in those Muslim countries is far better than giving to these word of faith, blab and grab it style ministries here in North America.

W

wind_blows Dec 25, 2009

Our Sabbath is in Jesus Christ.
______________________

I agree completely with that statement. I believe everyday belongs to Him:-)

with care in Him

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

Watch these videos and get a feel for these people go through over there. It's worth investing into that.

~~[url=http://www.gfa.org/videos/full-length/]~~Gospel For Asia Video[/url]

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

I agree that our Sabbath is in Christ Jesus. I believe in the first day of the week being the Lord's Day. However, I do not mind if those in Muslim countries worship the Lord Jesus on Friday, because that's the holiday there.

GFA can ask for donations, instead of living George Muller-style by faith. That's their choice. However, we gather in church on Sunday (or any appointed day of corporate worship) to worship the Lord. Worship is something that most American churches have completely forgotten. WORSHIP!

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

I was talking about a day for corporate worship, when the church meets for corporate worship, to remember the Lord Jesus Christ and His great sacrifice on Calvary's Cross. :-D

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

procyn, I am going to go out on a limb here a bit. I am glad you are on the forum. However, since you have been on here all your posts are so critical about the church. Additionaly since we haven't seen much initial positive posts it leaves me concerned for you.

While we need to be discerning of the churches true needs I think you are a little off balance.

I would hope you would soften your tone a bit then build back up to a better discerning rebuke of the state of the church.

I hope you will consider my observation.
God bless, John

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

Bro John, I've been 6 months in the USA, tied up in a rather liberal state in the North. I've been in touch with several churches. Haven't found a spiritual church yet. I did find spiritual churches in Asia. I believe there are small, living assemblies in different parts of the world; maybe, and hopefully, even in America. Yes, there was one I found in South Jersey! :-)

Soften my tone? I heard there is a preacher called Paul Washer who is not very complimentary about the state of the evangelical church in America. Have you heard him? :-)

PS. I am not so critical as you make me out to be. You haven't read my other 'positive' threads. On Life in the Spirit, on Three Great Men of God, Christmas, etc. :-D

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

I was talking about a day for corporate worship, when the church meets for corporate worship, to remember the Lord Jesus Christ and His great sacrifice on Calvary's Cross.

Well that is certainly all fine and dandy. The best way to remember the LORD's sacrifice is showing that we are indeed dead unto sin and alive unto God. We are His body in the earth.

Worship is having a transformed and renewed mind that no longer thinks on this plain, hence the true worshipers are they that worship the Father in spirit and in truth. Therefore worship is not confined to a place where we corporately gather together, rather it's a state of mind, the mind of Christ. That is worship!

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

Yes, I have read all your other posts. Thats why I gave you my exhortation. You are of course free to ignore it. I do not claim to be all discerning.

C

ChrisJD Dec 25, 2009

Hi everyone,

I've been in touch with several churches. Haven't found a spiritual church yet.

What is spiritual about your discussion here?

I say your becuse your views, your dissapointment, your respones to anyone that has responded to you ect.. is the focus.

It doesn't come off as spiritual at all.

It sounds like just you.

D

dohzman Dec 25, 2009

I understand what you're saying. There are times in a gathering that I desire to meet the Lord in an emotional way and at other times in a more intellectual way. We call that worship But here's what the word of God says Rom 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

We sometimes fool ourselves (I'm speaking to myself here) in the area of worship and it becomes not what we offer the Lord but what we "feel" from Him or don't "feel" from Him and somehow in all of our services, well we place the blame on the song leader, preacher, the distracting man or woman up front etc...That is of course a lie from the pit of hell. I have sat through so many boreing missionary meetings personally too, but in my giving to ....especially children, I know this much, I have touched the heart of God in worship at the highest level possible to man while on this earth.
And so my brother, strive to expand the base on which you worship and serve the Lord, with such sacrifices as that the Lord is well pleased.

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

Thank you Dohzman for expanding that thought on worship. :-)

W

wind_blows Dec 25, 2009

Hey procyon:-)

You wrote:I was talking about a day for corporate worship, when the church meets for corporate worship, to remember the Lord Jesus Christ and His great sacrifice on Calvary's Cross.
_____

That is what I was talking about too. I meet with other brothers and sisters in Christ daily, for fellowship, encouraging one another, worshiping Him and caring for one another. You know if you read in Acts they met daily to worship Him and to fellowship with one another, all their days were set aside for Him not just one:-)
We are told to daily take up our cross and follow Him...that is what walking with Him is all about.

with care in Him

sermonindex Dec 25, 2009

I was in Philly some time ago, with a young friend who was excited about Calvary Chapel, North Philly (Pastor Joe Focht). It was Sunday. A large gathering, about 1000. The speaker: KP Yohannan. He took a Bible verse and then used it (as a tag or hook) to speak of his project or programme in Asia.
Sunday is the Lord's Day. I thought the Lord would speak to us through His servant (whoever that may be). Sad to say, the message was just an advertisement for GFA, and we left the church feeling (i) There was no presence of the Lord in church that day; (ii) The folks in CC North Philly seemed to think it okay not to receive the Lord's word on Sunday, and their idea of worship seemed to be to submit to what may be called the 'sale of indulgences' (helping orphans in South Asia, through promising financial assistance on a regular basis).
I thought Sunday in church meant that we would get to 'meet the Lord' or the 'presence of the Lord'. Guess, projects & programmes mean more to CC North Philly than preaching Christ!

I am in India and just spent time with K.P. Yohannan and have seen their church work first hand. You are 100% not correct in your assumptions that they are just begging for support. I believe this is one of the most viable and fruitful "opportunties" the western church has to support to see the gospel go out to the lost 3 billion people who have never heard the name of Christ.

I would ask that in the future you would rather speak words of edification to the body of christ and not tear down "names" of men before other "men". Such things we will be accountable to before God.

M

Miccah Dec 25, 2009

procyon wrote:

I agree that our Sabbath is in Christ Jesus. I believe in the first day of the week being the Lord's Day. However, I do not mind if those in Muslim countries worship the Lord Jesus on Friday, because that's the holiday there.

How generous of you. 8-)