Compromise or No Compromise?

Curious as to how believers on this forum resolve the tension put forth by Paul in the letters regarding radical Christ-like living, and also becoming all things to all people in order to win them to Christ...

You have verses that state things like... your mother, father, brother, sister will hate you for my name's sake...

And then you have Paul not eating certain foods around certain people... although he is free to do whatever he wants because he is no longer under the law.

How did Paul discern whether he ought to be a scandal to his surrounding company, or to compromise his own convictions for the sake of others?

If we were to make a real life practical situation... Let's say I have friends who like to drink and party... should I go along with them to the party, in order to win them to Christ?

Without Faith it is impossible to please GOD.

Being under subjection to fear seems to be where I am always released from strongholds and footholds of darkness it is like walking on a narrow ledge, one step from destruction. With one relief, acknowledging how HE loves me, even if HE slay me.

whether he ought to be a scandal to his surrounding company, or to compromise his own convictions for the sake of others

Good topic to bring up, i have struggled with this also... Interested to see what others think...

How did Paul discern whether he ought to be a scandal to his surrounding company, or to compromise his own convictions for the sake of others?

There is a LOT of freedoms in Christ but if meat offends your brother or sister, since we ARE our brother’s keeper and we ARE a community of believers, we lovingly and willingly refrain from it when it offends or is a stumbling block to others who are weak in an area that we have freedom.

It took Paul 3 years in the Arabian Desert to be free of the Law that bound him and I think you chose the wrong word for what Paul did, compromise; letting us know where you possibly stand. Paul did not compromise any of his beliefs.

The church has really messed up not knowing let alone teaching the New Covenant. In the Old Testament was outward obedience and Jesus brought to all mankind the New Covenant, an inward obedience made possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.

We choose to do or not do things NOT because there’s written law somewhere in the Bible or because the Law police are watching BUT because of the Holy Spirit guiding our heart. 1 John 3.20, 21

Most Christians who have been brought up under the Law cannot understand the freedom of the new covenant and the higher order of thinking that it brings. I don’t understand it all either but I enjoy walking in it and sharing it with others!

2 Cor 3.6, 7, 8, 9 - Matt 12.6-7

Looking at the context surrounding Paul's decisions in these cases helps me. There was a time when Paul and Titus were ministering and encountered Judaizers who, in context, must have literally been hanging around the public facilities to see if they were circumcised. Paul dealt with this legalistic attitude head on.

Gal 2:3-5
(3) But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
(4) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
(5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

In another case, Paul was sensitive to a weaker brother who had the right heart for God but was weak in the faith.

1Co 8:8-13
(8) But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
(9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
(13) Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Eating the meat or not eating the meat was not the issue. Causing a weaker brother to stumble was. However, I would imagine that once those weaker bretheren came to a place of maturity, Paul would have had no problem sitting down to meat with them.

Not sure if every instance has the same contextual clues, but these two tell me a lot about Paul's attitude, and I think give a lot of direction as to how we can know what we should do in these cases. It is in discerning the spirit behind the issue. We really need the leadership of the Holy Spirit in this.

Whether to go along with friends to a drinking party is another issue entirely. Jesus ate at the house of a sinner, but this was not the same thing. The Pharisees in an attempt to "keep themselves pure and unspotted" would not associate with someone who was a sinner. This was out of legalism and an attempt to establish righteousness under the law and their own interpretations of what the law meant. Jesus did associate with sinners, but He did not fellowship with them. He associated with them because He loved them and was drawing them to Himselfe, but He did not share in their lifestyle (fellowship).

Travis.

So it seems to be that the main factor is if the parties in concern are redeemed or not?

But a legitimate objection could be... how can we go to win people to Christ if they must already be won to Christ in order to fellowship with them?

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel. that I may share with them in its blessings.

What is going on here?

Okay... So although Paul is free from Judaism... He willingly acts like a Jew around them? Although he is free in Christ?

I guess my main question is this...

How much of the gospel proclamation is the supernatural work of God? And how much of redemption / proclamation of the gospel is the work of man?

IT SEEMS as if Paul is working with every fiber of his being to bring people to Christ... although he knew that salvation was a gift as faith is a gift to people unto redemption.

I do not understand this dichotomy / paradox presented by Paul in the gospel presentation. Thus I have struggled in sharing the gospel of Christ to unbelievers, primarily in my own family.

How much ought I to rely on God, and how much should I rely on becoming all things to all people in order to win them to Christ?

Upon further reflection, I guess my primary fear in all of this is basically, how can we prevent ourselves from becoming such as Joel Olsteen / Rick Warren?

If we are to become all things to all people?

Isn't that what these false prophets are?

Albeit an extreme example.

They compromised their message / lifestyle to the point where they could connect to their unbelieving masses.

Where do we draw the line on becoming all things to all people and presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ as a scandal that confounds the wisdom of the world?

And by presenting the gospel, I do not only mean through the speech, but also the practicalities that follow in the real life of the believer in order to reach the world... living the Christ-like life.

So it seems to be that the main factor is if the parties in concern are redeemed or not? But a legitimate objection could be... how can we go to win people to Christ if they must already be won to Christ in order to fellowship with them?

We are absolutely to associate with unbelievers. How else can we win them. We are in the world after all.

But, we are not OF the world. We are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness.

There is a great distinction between associating with unbelievers and fellowshipping with their works.

We must, I guess, define the term fellowship. When we think of the word fellowship, we often think of getting together to eat, talk, have coffee, etc. This is not the Biblical definition. Biblically, fellowship with someone or something is to partake of what that person is and does. It is to align ourselves with that person or that thing. I have fellowship with my fellow believers. I cannot have fellowship with the lost. It is impossible by the very definition of the term fellowship. I can however relate to unbelievers in friendship, and associate with them in the real world. I do. I must.

The Lord said to come out and be ye separate. This does not mean that I am somehow taken out of the world, but it does mean that I no longer fellowship with the ways of the world.

I recall being on a cruise ship with a long time friend of mine who owns an insurance business. He and I were to attend a cocktail reception hosted by the company from whom he had won the trip. We attended. It was, for all practical purposes, a chance for people to get free alcohol paid for by the company. I asked for a coca-cola, enjoyed the munchies, and visited with people. I had the opportunity to inject the things of God into the conversation several times. I did not have a chance to lead anyone to the Lord and due to the effects of the alcohol on a great number, I felt it would have been unfruitful outside of the Holy Spirit showing me someone was really ready and leading me into it. I was a little bit like a fish out of water in that setting.

I guess a lot depends on the leading of the Lord and the purposes for being at the party. If you have a need to fit in and feel like you would suffer some sort of rejection by your friend for not attending, I would not go. It is evidence that you would be weak in that kind of situation. If the Lord leads you there to be a light, listen to Him. But I would not take a decision to go to a drinking party lightly or flippantly. You can just as easily minister to those same people, and perhaps much more effectively, on more neutral turf.

Just my opinion.

Travis

IWantAnguish said

How did Paul discern whether he ought to be a scandal to his surrounding company, or to compromise his own convictions for the sake of others?

Roms 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God

That is the way Paul managed to discern what to and what not to do. You my friend need to let the Holy Spirit lead you.

We are Gods children Roms 8:16 the Spirit does confirm with our spirit that to us. In the same way we you need to let the Spirit lead you with what you need to do in this situation. It not difficult hearing from the Spirit, the difficult part is obeying what it tells you do (in some cases).

My adivce is be led by the Spirit......

That sounds really good and all...

But how does one really walk by the Spirit?

It is some esoteric state of mind?

Isn't the Word of God supposed to be used in conjunction with the Spirit of God in order to be a faithful Christian?

Some practical examples would be appreciated, thanks much.

That sounds really good and all... But how does one really walk by the Spirit? It is some esoteric state of mind? Isn't the Word of God supposed to be used in conjunction with the Spirit of God in order to be a faithful Christian? Some practical examples would be appreciated, thanks much.

It is not at all esoteric. Before Jesus ascended He said that it was needful for Him to go so that He might send another comforter, the Holy Spirit of God. He told the disciples that up to that point He had been with them, but would be IN them. On the day of pentecost, 120 at least were filled with the Holy Spirit and 3000 were saved (many of whom I believe probably received the same Holy Spirit baptism at the same time.)

Being filled with the Holy Spirit and led by the Spirit is central to being a Christian. In 1 Cor. 2 we read that no one knows what is in the heart of a man save that man. Likewise no one knows what is in the heart of God save God himself. Christ knows what is in the heart of God, and through the Holy Spirit, we have the mind of Christ. God reveals His will and His heart to us as we walk in the Spirit.

He does this several ways. Sometimes He just puts within us a strong desire that we can learn to recognize as His will. Psalm 37:4. Often He speaks to us directly. This usually comes through what we percieve as a stream of thoughts that we recognize as His voice. We do use the word of God in all both of these cases as a check on what we as fallible people hear. We learn over time to be more and more sensitive to the voice of the Master, but we acknowledge our own weakness and ALWAYS run it through the filter of the written word. Remember that we have a more sure word of prophecy 2 Peter 1:19, and that God has exalted His word even above His NAME (Psalm 138:2).

Learning to walk by the Spirit is a process. At its foundation is intimate relationship and fellowship with the Lord. I don't know if you have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2, Acts 10, Acts 19, etc. If not, begin to ask God to fill you with the fullness of His Spirit. Also, begin in your prayer times to ask God to help you to recognize His voice and to speak to you His will. Begin to draw near to Him just for the sake of knowing Him.

When I was 18 I was struggling with whether to accept a full ride scholarship to a local college or to give it up to attend a local Bible college. I had many well meaning CHristians pressuring me to attend Bible college. I prayed about the decision for some time. One night while praying about this, the Lord just gave me an assurance. No audible voice, not miraculous sign, just a calm assurance in my spirit of what I was to do. I took advantage of the scholarship, forgot about Bible college, and in hindsight can see the plan of God unfolding through that decision. It would have been a mistake for me to have given up the scholarship.

Another time at a church camp a girl collapsed into unconciousness after the evening service. I was talking with a couple friends on a hill overlooking the open walled tabernacle where we have services. People gathered around and began to pray for the girl. The Holy Spirit spoke a strong thought in my mind, "You have to get down there right now." I had no reason to think that. Many were praying for her, and at that point I did not know but what she simply did not feel well. I quickly obeyed and once there began to pray for the girl. She had absolutely no response to any pain stimulus like pricking her hands for feet, etc. As I prayed the Holy Spirit's presence seemed to come over me very strongly and I remember finally commanding strongly, "Come out, come out, come out!" Immediately she snapped back into conciousness and was perfectly fine the rest of the week. I later found out that there was a teen on the grounds that had been heavily involved in the occult and admitted to praying that this girl die that very day, although he could not explain why he had prayed that.

Another time I had ignored the voice of the Lord. I knew He was telling my wife and I to leave a church, but we had no logical reason to do so. Things were going well and we were very active in ministry. Finally as we drove to church one morning the Lord spoke strongly in my mind, "Are you going to do what I said or not?" I immediately repented of my rebellion and we obeyed. Had we not obeyed I would not be where I am today.

These are just a few of my own examples. Hope this helps.

Travis

It is my understanding that believers are endued with the Holy Spirit at regeneration / at the point of redemption.

It is only through the Holy Spirit in which I recognize all my sinful thoughts... be it my pride, selfishness, deception, lust, anger, malice, envy, covetousness, etc.

The voice of the Holy Spirit is very clear in regards to my depravity... But it's only in situations where the Scripture is not explicitly clear when I get into trouble...

For example... How extreme should I be in my personality / presentation of the gospel to my unbelieving siblings? Should I refrain from participating in any of their worldly activities, and pressure them into reading the Bible and books on theology?

Or should I try and get close to them through helping them with their homework, talking about things they like to do, and occasionally talking about the gospel to them?

And once again, how does the sovereignty of God in redemption come into play in the gospel presentation?

Should I even be concerned over these matters, on how the gospel is presented, as long as it is Scriptural, if salvation is indeed a supernatural work of God?

Anguish,

This sermon will help explain A LOT about walking in the Spirit. I hope you can listen to it all the way through before judging (if it is different than your denomination).

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4280&commentView=itemComments]The Spirit of Grace and Power[/url] by Zac Poonen

God bless you!

Thanks, I'll be sure to listen to this.

I don't consider myself a member of any particular denomination... other than the universal Church of God.

It is my understanding that believers are endued with the Holy Spirit at regeneration / at the point of redemption. It is only through the Holy Spirit in which I recognize all my sinful thoughts... be it my pride, selfishness, deception, lust, anger, malice, envy, covetousness, etc. The voice of the Holy Spirit is very clear in regards to my depravity... But it's only in situations where the Scripture is not explicitly clear when I get into trouble...

I would submit that there is a deeper experience in the Holy Spirit. The same experience that we read about in the book of Acts.

Act 19:2-6
(2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
(4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Second, all of the ministry of the Holy Spirit that you have mentioned is a very negative ministry. It is true that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, but His primary ministry is not to show you how bad you are or how bad you have been. He is the paraklete. The one who comes along side and helps and comforts. God wants to carry on conversation with you, to speak to you about all sorts of things. He wants to not only reveal Himself to you, but speak to you specifically.

Travis