Calvin or Jesus?

If Calvinism is true, how can these two truths be reconciled?

1.) God made all men for his pleasure...

" Thou art worthy, O, Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." -Rev 4:11

2.) Those in hell never pleased God...

"...without faith it is impossible to please him..."
-Hebrews 11:6
"...I have no pleasure, in the death of the wicked..."
-Ezekiel 33:11

If Calvinism is not true, how can these two truths be reconciled?

Answer: "The Lord is not slack, concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." -2Peter 3:9

Jesus Christ said...

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,how often WOULD I HAVE gathered thy children together,even as,a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!
-Matthew 23:27

Did you get your doctrine from a man or from Jesus?

I briefly thought about Calvanism & Arminism. Then I decided that this is something that Jesus would not want me to dwell on. There are far more important things to think about. How wonderful is our Jesus, who gave His very life for us. I have so much to learn through His Word to help me lead a godly life without getting caught up in things that aren't that important.

Just let the obvious tension in Scripture stay there.

Can we all agree that without the proclamtion of the gospel the power of God is not present?

Because of the gospel of Jesus Christ and my response to His free offer of eternal life I can have assurance in knowing that God foreknew me and predestined me to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ

When we willing respond to the gospel call we have God's righteousness imputed to us and we can take on any of these titles
Elect, Predestined, Foreknown, Chosen... and those are biblical terms.
So those who do not willing respond are not Elect, Predestined, Foreknown, or Chosen

Let's not be silly. I could just as easily flip the thread title around and ask you - "Arminius or Jesus"?

There are plenty of resources on the net regarding how Calvinists would answer these questions, why don't you just read those? The moderators don't like these kinds of contentious threads.

With care in Christ...

Sadly, this looks like another spammer.

Natan4Jesus wrote:

oh boy....why do i get this sinking feeling..........

You made my morning! I read the title, was almost afraid to click on it, then I read your message and laughed so hard I got tears in my eyes!!

Thank you for that! You were a blessing and didn't even know it brother!

God bless you!

ChrisMo wrote:
I briefly thought about Calvanism & Arminism. Then I decided that this is something that Jesus would not want me to dwell on. There are far more important things to think about. How wonderful is our Jesus, who gave His very life for us. I have so much to learn through His Word to help me lead a godly life without getting caught up in things that aren't that important.

I was listening to a new song this morning by Nina Landis called "Glutton's at a Table." Paraphrased: we sit at His feet stuffing ourselves while they're starving in the street. You would think she was talking about food (which she could be) but I got that she was talking about God's Spirit in us - how we hoard it and never give it out to others.

So I've got that to think about that today as well. :)

God bless you,

Just let the obvious tension in Scripture stay there.

Everyone gets is a wad when they try to figure out how God saves people and why some don't get saved. It's a lot like trying to figure how how God made the world - he shared no details about this process beyond 'he spoke and it happened'. While there is more about the redemption process there are so many loopholes and therein lies the problem. Since this is the case we do well to leave some things to God and get on with living for him, like Lysa said. There are too many devils lurking out there working to trip us up.

Ya' got one looking over your shoulder?

My opinion....

ginnyrose

Calvin cannot save you. Arminius cannot save you. It is readily apparent that the spiritual precept which Paul convicted the Corinthian church is still in full evidence today. Like then, and now is the same conflict because believers have not given up on men to follow Christ. It is only God who gives the increase. Until one forsakes following men, one will always be in conflict with one another. Unity can only come by following the voice of God.

Only Jesus can wash the feet of those who hear and obey.

In Christ
Jeff

To add to what I wrote in the previous post, all one has to do for the manifestation of divisiveness that emanates from following men and not God, look to the life of Paul as an example.

Before Paul heard God speak, he himself fought against those who heard God. And then those who were once his friends became his enemies. This is a spiritual precept.

.......................................................
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac [was], are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him [who was born] according to the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
.....................................................

Those who like Isaac suffered persecution from those who lived in bondage to the law according to the flesh.

In Christ
Jeff

I would ask not to discuss this topic, as brother Taylor already said, there is a ton of information on this site already, and all over internet.

To what I wrote in the previous two posts...

To add to Paul's life before and after he heard the voice of God...

Remember the commotion that Paul started between the two denominations of jews in the book of Acts?

.......................................................
Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Men [and] brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!"

Act 23:7 And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the assembly was divided.

Act 23:8 For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection--and no angel or spirit; but the Pharisees confess both.

Act 23:9 Then there arose a loud outcry. And the scribes of the Pharisees' party arose and protested, saying, "We find no evil in this man; but if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him, let us not fight against God." [fn]

Act 23:10 Now when there arose a great dissension, the commander, fearing lest Paul might be pulled to pieces by them, commanded the soldiers to go down and take him by force from among them, and bring [him] into the barracks.
........................................................

Solomon wrote that there is nothing new under the sun. So as it is today between two men and their disciples so it was almost 2000 years ago.

In Christ
Jeff

Neither Calvin or Arminius should be the authority of doctrine. "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." - I Thessalonians 5:21

The word of the Living God is the authority. (2 Timothy 3:16,17)

To those who would say "I just want Jesus and not doctrine," aren't you saying, "I just want the blessings of God, but don't want to take the time to know Him or His will?" All doctrine points back to the God who gave it. All doctrine reflects on the infinite God. And the teachings of John Calvin propose a very serious allegation against God. If John Calvin was correct, then God is the author of sin!!!!!

Irresistable GRACE = Irresistable SIN!!!

It is merely a case of remembering that Adonai's love for all of His creation is unconditional.

Yeshua spoke about the seed being broadcast, and the tares being added by the Enemy....

The fact that Adonai can know and love all beings does not affect His insistance on justice, nor His mercy in Yeshua.

The paradoxes that Calvinism discusses are real ones. I am by no means a Calvinist, yet in the dark of the night, when I seek the Holy Spirit, I do remember that even though I may fail to walk rightly, Adonai through Yeshua has from the beginning of the world already done so, and taken my penalty for me.

My trust in that is my Yeshua.

Adonai loves without measure. People can hear and not hear, or even hear and follow not...this does not affect how Adonai views us, nor how much He loves even those that do not love Him, nor will/did it stop Him from grieving from the first when Adam fell, for those who would not hear; or would hear, and choose not to follow Him.

Adonai deals in tough love, for He cannot afford to promote any of us to eternity, and give us the power that Adam had in the garden, if we will not learn to heed Him.

Only with the gift of the Holy Spirit working in us can we even be made acceptable in Adonai's eyes, and then not because we do well, but that we realize how badly we fail.

And my brothers, even a foolish question, or a deliberate straw man/spamming seeming argument does not make the question unworthy of a seemly answer, for there are questions never written by many who read here that would like to know a goodly answer. After all, we once did not know all the answers to divisive questions.

Irresistable GRACE = Irresistable SIN???

I seem to be able to resist both grace and sin every day of my life, and sorrow over it also.