I've heard some pretty whacko doctrines (one even from Charisma magazine) that say Christians CAN be demon posessed.(Which in my opinion they can NOT be) I would like to know what others have to say about Christians being demon possessed whether they can or they can not.The Evangelist
Hi Theevangelist,i believe that a Christian can be demon oppressed (outside), but not, or no longer demon possessed (inside), once Christ is accepted as ones personal Savior ... Scriptures says that once we accept Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells us ... Rom. 8:9-11 1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19;James 4:5 2 Tim. 1:13-14 Eph 3:16 1 Thess. 4:8. The Holy Spirit takes up residence in us, and the Holy Spirit cannot live in the same house/temple as an unholy spirit ... For even Christ said that a house divided, can not stand ... But even tho indwealt by the Spirit, it does not mean that we can't still CHOOSE to do evil, it just means that we can no longer literally claim that the devil MADE ME do it ... that's my take.
I've heard some pretty whacko doctrines (one even from Charisma magazine) that say Christians CAN be demon posessed.(Which in my opinion they can NOT be) I would like to know what others have to say about Christians being demon possessed whether they can or they can not.Yes reading materials such from Charisma magazine and other counterparts will surely be a waste of time to find true spiritual truth in Christ. I would say many of the newer books published in the last 20-30 years on spiritual warfare have been of little value. One book that has been discussed to some extent on the forums prior is "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn-Lewis and co-authored by Evan Roberts. I consider it the best volume on spiritual warfare in the last 100 years easily. They went through the welsh revival and were able to gain much insight into the spiritual through experience. I highly recommend you read through it. If a person could answer your question simply in one line then the idea of there being books trying to answer the same question would be pointless. A heavy subject like this demands much attention and patience in study. I hope that helps brother.i believe that a Christian can be demon oppressed (outside), but not, or no longer demon possessed (inside), once Christ is accepted as ones personal Savior ... Perhaps words you are looking for brother is the idea of Opression vs. Possession.
Scriptures says that once we accept Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells us ...where?
where?Galatians 1:16 - To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:Galatians 1:24 - And they glorified God in me.Galatians 4:6 - And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.and many more throughout the scriptures...
where does it say 'when we accept Christ?'
Brother Ron ...Acts.2[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.i'll not get into all the other things like His sealing us unto the day of redemption, His baptism of us into the Body of Christ, His indwelling of us, and all the other wonderful things we get with/of the Holy Ghost, once we accept Christ ... Stands to Christian spiritual reasoning that if no man can get to the Father except by Christ, we can't get to the Holy Ghost without Him either ...Tit.3[1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,[2] To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.[3] For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.[4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[8] This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.[10] A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.Hope this suffices as to where it says it ... Amen?
once we accept Christ ... where does the Bible talk about 'accepting Christ?'
Brother Ron:I think that this is just a play on wording. I agree that the phrase "accept Christ" is used very loosely and has led many people to believe they are born again when they are not. I myslef don't like to use the words accept Christ and I think for the most part they are used incorrectly.However, the words accept and receive seem to coincide with each other.Several scriptures speak of accepting or receiving.Mark 4:20, 9:37 and Luke 18:17 for just a few that speak of receiving Christ and His word.The Greek word here is dechomai (1209) and it mean to accept, receive or take.When the scriptures speak of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost, mainly in Acts a different word is used. The Greek word is lambano (2983) which means accept, take, receieve, attain. This word is used as an alternative in certain tenses to the one mentioned previously. Maybe you can expound on to the reason why.In any case, it would seem to me that the scripture does indicate that we need to accept/receive God's word, accept/receive Christ as the only way to eternal life, accept/receive the cross and Christ's blood as the only possible way of redemption, accept/receive His promise of the gift and baptism of the Holy Spririt.A question they we may need to ask is how do we accept/receive these things. I would say it is through repentance just like Peter preached. That repentance in itself is a gift from the Lord.Hope this makes sense to somebody.Hope to read more about the subject of the original post on demon possession.God bless,Mike
Phewww ... Thanks Brother Mike ...Brother Ron,Since you've assured me that i can't possibly hurt your feelings, and believe me i'm not trying to ... But, you're scaring me ... Are you spliting hairs here? ... Mincing words? ... Or just being (i dread to say this but have thought it much) the devil's advocate? ... i pray it's not the latter ...Are you really hung up on the word "accept" so much until you can't see the meaning of scripture in regards obtaining the Holy Spirit thru Christ ... If so then no one else but the Holy Ghost can knock those scales from your eyes ... Do you believe yourself to be indwealt by the Holy Ghost? ... If so, then how and when do you think you recieved Him? ... i'm most curious about this, and you?
A little error can lead into a lot of error!
Brother Greg,I highly respect you as well as your incredible ministry through sermon index. I would have to disagree with you on the point of the book, "War on the Saints", however. You seem to be a student of revival history. You should also know then that "War on the Saints" was renounced by Evan Roberts no less than 2 years after it's publishing. I have a copy of the book and honestly find it to be filled with bizzare and unbiblical doctrines. This book shocked and appauled (sp?) the Welsh Revival converts because it denounced (in shrouded language) many of the powerful demonstrations of the Spirit which took place in Wales. Mrs. Penn Lewis was a great woman and no doubt loved the Lord with all of her heart, some of her literature however, was slightly off. Now I'm sure some things I believe are too, slightly off, so I do not say that as a condemnation on her. If you study the Welsh Revival, you will find that Mrs. Penn Lewis was possibly one of the reasons behind Evan Roberts withdraw from ministry, as well as the decline of the revival. I would be careful of recommending "War on the Saints". Just a sincere word from a brother in the Lord.Blessings,Jeff
Nasher:What is the little error that you are speaking about? Is it the wording "accept/receive" or are you speaking about demon possession of Christians.Mike
The little error is the one you have mentioned:I agree that the phrase "accept Christ" is used very loosely and has led many people to believe they are born again when they are not.
Hi Mike 5nvaI think that this is just a play on wording. I agree that the phrase "accept Christ" is used very loosely and has led many people to believe they are born again when they are not. I myslef don't like to use the words accept Christ and I think for the most part they are used incorrectly.I am not teasing but I am trying to provoke thought here. In the early days of this site there was a lot of attention given to AW Tozer, the man known as a 20th Century prophet. One of Tozer's main concerns was what he called textualism; "The error of textualism is not doctrinal. It is far more subtle than that and much more difficult to discover, but its effects are just as deadly. Not its theological beliefs are at fault, but its assumptions. It assumes, for instance, that if we have the word for a thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true of Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tells us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to make it tell us that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resultant experience wholly mental." (Man: The Dwelling Place of God, A. W. Tozer, page 18, copyright 1966 Christian Publications, Inc., Harrisburg, PA.)My own conviction is that textualism lies at the foundation of many of our troubles in evangelicalism. The evangelical movement has created a whole theology of expectation that has no real basis in scripture. There is no biblical equivalent for 'accepting Christ' 'deciding for Christ' 'asking Christ into your life' 'giving your heart to Jesus' or any of these things. Consequently it is impossible to define just what the phrases mean. Does it matter you ask? You are just splitting hairs. Let me illustrate; I may call the creature downstairs a fish. Everyone else calls it a dog but does it matter? No, unless you get the 'How to Care for your Fish' manual. In that I read that the best home for my 'fish' is a water-filled aquarium and its favourite food is 'ants' eggs'. The arbitary name now it begins to have serious implications for the creature downstairs. We do the same in our current evangelical practices. We take someone through an event we call 'accepting Christ' 'deciding for Christ' 'asking Christ into your life' 'giving your heart to Jesus'and then say 'now that you have done this what the Bible says about the Ephesians is true for you'. There is an enormous gap here. We then end up having to defend these positions by saying 'if you have Christ you have the Spirit' and because you have 'accepted Christ' 'decided for Christ' 'asked Christ into your life' 'given your heart to Jesus' you have Christ. Who says so? The New Testament actually works in the opposite direction. It says 'if you don't have the Spirit you are not Christ's'. It says 'if you are led by the Spirit you are a son of God'. and most surprizing of all, where evangelicals says that 'when you receive Christ you receive the Spirit' the New Testament says 'when you receive the Spirit you receive Christ'.that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,(Eph 3:16-17 NASB) Apparently the way that Christ 'dwells in your heart by faith' is by being strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man'. Apparently Christ dwells in the heart as a result of the presence of the Spirit, rather than the other way around.The great question that Paul asked was not have you 'accepted Christ' 'decided for Christ' 'asked Christ into your life' 'given your heart to Jesus'but 'when you believed did you receive the Spirit? Now if we ask that question for this thread... Can someone who is filled with the Spirit also a demon? The simple answer is 'where would the demon be if we are filled with the Holy Spirit?'
Nasher:Please explain the error. I have met many people who say they have accepted Jesus has their Lord and Savior but they are clearly not living for the Lord, they are practicing sin of many kind. I have met many who say they have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior when they were 4, 5, 6, 7, etc years old and they are now adults and have no fruit of ever serving Him. That is not to say it isn't possible for a young child to be born again, I am just using this as an example for my statement that the phrase "accept Jesus" is used loosely.Mike
Ron:I do agree with you. My post was to just show that there is scripture that indicates an accepting and receiving. You asked where in scripture does it mention this and that is what I tried to answer. I am in agreement that we should not present the gospel and salvation as "accepting Jesus". Our message should be as Peter said "repent and be saved".As to the demon possession, I do not believe a person who is abiding in Christ, surrendering to God daily as a living sacrifice and presenting themselves as a slave to righteousness can be demon possessed.Matthew 15:28-29 - But if cast out demon by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.Luke 11:22 - but when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him allhis armor on which he has relied, and distributes his plunder.I do believe such a person can be demon oppressed or be under attack. I also believe one can fall away so I would say that if a person falls away they could become demon possessed at that point. I'm sure this will really open up a can of worms.Mike
Would 'receive' be a better term?
renounced by Evan Roberts no less than 2 years after it's publishing.Brother Jeff could you give me reliable sources and information about this 'rejection' of the book by Roberts. He did stay with Jessie Penn-Lewis most of his life. On the book itself it deals so much with the Cross of Christ and centers its doctrines around that in a powerful way. I would like to say the same of most modern movements but sadly the cross of Christ is not paramount. I like how Jessie Penn-Lewis in her book on the welsh revival history which she witnessed first hand said that the preaching of the Cross was brought back by God into the churches before the revival came. What a pre-requisite for revival.
Brother Greg, I have the information stored upstairs although the source is foggy. I believe it is from "An Instrument of Revival" - Roberts Biography. When I go home for lunch I will search for an exact reference for you though.I do agree that Mrs. Penn Lewis does/did bring a much needed emphasis on the cross of Christ. I have to say though that the book seems to breed a fear that any wrong move in our search for God may cause us to become demonized. It seems to ignore Jesus' promise that if His children ask for the Holy Spirit sinerely, He will allow them to receive no other Spirit. (Matt 7:9-11) Although what you said is also valid, her emphasis on the cross that is. In that way she reminds me of one of my Professors from college, Dr. Sandy Kirk - have you heard of her? The cross is her central passion, I don't believe I have ever heard or read anyone speak of the cross with as much passion and conviction as she. Blessings,Jeff
This discussion is locked.
