30 States Ready to Outlaw Abortion

Outlawing abortion will begin the final process of the dissolution of the USA.I am not making a statement regarding sin or justice. I merely state that for better or worse, appointing a justice to reverse Roe makes the Judicial check and balance a fallacy. 30 states do not make a majority of the American people.Outlawing abortion will throw the baby out with the bathwater. It will be akin to southern victory in the Civil War (which would suit many anti-abortionists just fine).The GOP already makes appointing level headed judges impossible. Must we let them stock the Supreme court with idiot cronies? W wants to put the guy in who wrote the torture memos for Iraq!The USA does not have forced abortion. Change the hearts of women, not the constitution (and this includes gay marraige)!

I believe the premises we're dealing with (and with which I agree) are:1. Abortion is murder.2. Murder should be outlawed.Therefore:Abortion should be outlawed.I could bring up relevant Scripture to support the premises, if desired, but I'm thinking it's pretty obvious.As for the gay marriage thing, I agree that we shouldn't rely on the constitution to define marriage, but I believe that because I believe that God, and only God, can define marriage.

Outlawing abortion will begin the final process of the dissolution of the USA.Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people (Proverbs 14:34). It will be akin to southern victory in the Civil War (which would suit many anti-abortionists just fine).I had a black man tell me a few years ago that the same conscience that rose up in man to stop slavery will be the same conscience that rises up to stop abortion. The GOP already makes appointing level headed judges impossible. Must we let them stock the Supreme court with idiot croniesThis statement is the typical paradigm of US secular liberal arts education. Sending your child there is like sending them into the Lion's Den. Change the hearts of women, not the constitution (and this includes gay marraige)!The constitution of the United States was framed by men who would roll over in their graves if they knew how it has been butchered to accomidate the wickedness of this nation in the last 70 years. The boundaries of the law are there first of all to protect the people and of all who need protection (who are more in need than the innocent?). Your view of changing the hearts of men is flawed in that to be consistent we would just shred the constitution and all other laws. This would allow for what you seem to be promoting... that everyone might do what is right in their own eyes. This is lawlessness (iniquity) and antinomianism.

I'd like those scriptures.Thanks.

The constitution of the United States was framed by evil men also.I remain against abortion, but do not see Eric Rudolph as a modern John Brown.If the USA splitting in two is the way to outlaw abortion, then I guess it is time to pray over which side to join.Still unanswered; why do most Christians not put this issue at the top of their agenda? Are the Iraqis an easier target?Could it be the arguments made by anti-abortionists such as 'the typical paradigm of US secular liberal arts education' is only insulting to other beleivers?Does the movement really beleive it has the moral compass and perogative of the entire USA, including all other beleivers?The 'same conscience that rose up in man to stop slavery will be the same conscience that rises up to stop abortion' argument is lost in the wasted opportunities and continued oppression of US blacks. That conscience in the 1800's was resisted by the forefathers of many of those in the Pro-life movement now. That is fine, because God's chosen people accomplished His will in spite of their stiff necks and hardheartedness, and He can do anything thru anybody. But per another thread, he ain't gonna do it thru the GOP. And not the USA, if it desolves over a single issue.

. . . And how do we pray??Lars W.

mloaks wrote:I'd like those scriptures.Thanks.Lars has a point about some of our recent exchanges: this is a prayer/intercession area, not a debate forum. I, at least, have difficulty seeing the two as meshing terribly well, at least with the kinds of debates going on.So I started a thread elsewhere to go through those Scriptures:The Bible on abortionAs for what to pray about:- pray that God would convict women to stop wanting to murder their babies- pray that God would convict men to stop shirking their duties as husbands and fathers- pray that God would have the legislature and other political entities obey Him, in regards to this issue and all the rest.- pray that God would have the body of Christ not rely upon politics to solve this horrendous problem (though politics is a tool God may work through, it is He we are to rely upon, not politics)- pray that God would have the body of Christ repent for its part of the problem (ignorance, negligence, apathy, etc).

Thanks, agreed. Great prayer...I'm out...

Freedom does get messy, which is why we never really go all the way and say "do whatever you want" and really mean it. This is partly due to the (apparent) truth that there is a limit (called the "Mill limit" by some, I believe due to John Stuart Mill) to how much freedom can be granted before it actually reduces the overall amount of freedom. Granting the freedom to murder, for example.But that's more or less neither here nor there, my point is that it would be nice if all involved kindly restrained the use of their actual freedoms in the interest of keeping this particular part of the forum neat and focused on the point; we're quite free to carry the discussion to another section (for instance, the lounge), point our fellows to that thread, and have at it (in a Christlike manner, of course).

Neil and every other reader and friend,An enemy of the functional, efficient prayer meeting is the “right of freedom of speech”.A fundamental mistake made among us over and over again stems from minds out of focus. What is prayer but a mind and heart in silence before God, serving God by willingness to listen to the heart of God?What is corporate worship but corporate service unto Him?We shut down the possibilities to reach a point of agreement in the Lord just because we are talking, discussing and arguing to make our point of view the general point of view or, even worse, we are talking just to turn off the mind to proper and polite listening. John 4:6 is the worst scenario along this line.This is the American way and the way of the nations, but it is not the way of the Kingdom of God. Prayer is a situation of research, the situation at hand defined.Prayer is a situation of pondering, source of the situation revealed, even discussed.Prayer is a situation of silence, God given room to instruct.Prayer is a situation of corporate action according to God’s heart.We are losing it simply because we prefer guarding the ways of the nations’ right of freedom of speech instead of handling the nations in true church environment; the House of the Lord is a House of prayer for all nations.Our major consern in the House of the Lord is to pray in a manner which prepares the way for the Lord, prepares an inroad for Him into the situation at hand.Lars W.

Every blessing, Neil, as we move on...