The AoG in the UK has a new website. Those of you familiar with its history, (more than I, who am new to it), might take a look at the Statement of Faith, and answer whether it is possible to hold to it, while reading the books they recommend, and doing what the writers on the site appear to be advocating to their leaders?
Ah, yes the Assemblies of God. I've been attending an AG church in Texas for a few years now, and went to an AG elementary, junior high and high school. If you are new I think, unfortunately, you will find that they, mostly, say the right things. Then you will notice that where the rubber meets the road they are a bit lacking. On the Young Adult section of the US website they were recommending the other day the movie The Book of Eli, which is rated R. You will hear them preach holiness and then do this. You will hear them preach on having faith in paying your tithes and then tell you how much the church needs your money and therefore show no faith. They will preach on old time Pentecostalism and then buy 15 flatscreen TV's for the hallways of a medium to large church. They will reminisce about the old days and the miracles they once saw and then talk about how great it is now that watching TV and going to see R rated movies isn't a sin anymore.
But... You will also tend to find ministers who do love the Lord and long to see people changed in ways that only Jesus and the Holy Spirit can do. You will find that they will allow the Holy Spirit to move in ways and for a longer duration than most churches will allow. I don't agree with all their statements of faith, but I think they try very hard and are very open to living out a New Testament church. I too get tired of being told to live by faith and then see them promote books that teach people how THEY can build their ministry. Though I don't agree with everything I still think they have a lot to offer. No church or denomination is perfect, especially denominations. My thought is that if God placed me in the AG world, I'm to bloom in the AG world.
Hello hoohoou,
You've described very well, what the older members are experiencing. I myself am frustrated, because I've seen this in another setting, thirty years ago with a veneer of spiritual language and merely carnal interpretation of scripture.
Not in my church anymore. We're lucky to a few minutes occasionally for someone with a word to bring it. We've been asked to write them down (which eventually, I realised, the apostle Paul began to do usually only because he was in prison, or prevented from being personally present), and if we do, they are not always given out. The 'pastor' thinks a spirit led meeting is 'weird', but then from time to time, I will recognise he is using someone else's revelation, as if it is wisdom he himself received from above.You will find that they will allow the Holy Spirit to move in ways and for a longer duration than most churches will allow.
I saw your thread about the youth work you've been given by God, and will reply in that thread also. But I want to say this. One of the ways of getting rid of people like you and your wife, is for the leadership to go along with your leading - give you a venue and invite your target participants - but then, when it doesn't become a roaring success, and you're feeling embarrassed by that (or, just warming up to fight the enemy), they allow another 'work' to start, which is much more appealing to the flesh, and they put in charge someone less qualified, less spiritual, less mature, not called by God but maybe perceived as part of the 'in' crowd and therefore someone to hang out with, and let the chips fall. Eventually, unless the kids are already sick of superficiality (as the discerning ones now are, at the church I was attending), your work will be sidelined, or the hall will be needed for something urgent (even a one off) on the night you have it, and the cycle is broken. You have to decide whether to find a temporary venue or cancel, and then you have kids who didn't hear where you're meeting. It's all very subtle, and works like a dream - which is, of course, exactly what's at the back of this 'method'.
Recently, I found this scripture, and it does (sad to say) totally encapsulate the deception which is being perpetrated on the people in the congregation I've come to know.
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, [i]yea[i]are[i]are[i]they are[i]which[i]are[i]that[i]say they[i]and
That last half sentence in the TEV reads,
'Tomorrow will be even better than today!'
which loudly echoes my 'pastor's catchphrase 'The best is yet to come', or, 'The best is ahead'.
I was gobsmacked when I found it in scripture!
On the website, their Bible College Principal, who is on the national leadership team, recommends Brian McLaren's 'Church on the Other Side'; I now know 'why' a lot of things which go on. Also, I am distressed by his part of the write-up for the Probationary Ministers conference, (which explains a great deal of what comes out of the mouth of the 'pastor' with whom I'm now acquainted).
'As leaders of the Church we want to be our best and it is my desire that Deeper 2:52 is a time when all of us are inspired to go deeper in our walk with God and [b]in our call to lead ourselves and others
'lead ourselves'?
Seems to say it all.
I saw your thread about the youth work you've been given by God, and will reply in that thread also. But I want to say this. One of the ways of getting rid of people like you and your wife, is for the leadership to go along with your leading - give you a venue and invite your target participants - but then, when it doesn't become a roaring success, and you're feeling embarrassed by that (or, just warming up to fight the enemy), they allow another 'work' to start, which is much more appealing to the flesh, and they put in charge someone less qualified, less spiritual, less mature, not called by God but maybe perceived as part of the 'in' crowd and therefore someone to hang out with, and let the chips fall. Eventually, unless the kids are already sick of superficiality (as the discerning ones now are, at the church I was attending), your work will be sidelined, or the hall will be needed for something urgent (even a one off) on the night you have it, and the cycle is broken. You have to decide whether to find a temporary venue or cancel, and then you have kids who didn't hear where you're meeting. It's all very subtle, and works like a dream - which is, of course, exactly what's at the back of this 'method'.
Alive-to-God, I voiced none of those fears, or experiences, above and yet you spoke to them all. I won't say it's the church leadership doing it on purpose but we don't get any support and we've shown up to find the gym we meet in decorated for different events, and we have had to both cancel before and move venues. The concerns of being put on the back burner and a hip someone else being brought in has been on my mind quite a bit. All of the little leadership team we have has noticed these things. Again, I'm not speaking ill of church leadership. We are in agreement that it is the enemy coming against a work of God. Upwards of 90% of American kids leave the church after high school. We are trying to stop this. God has given me a bold word for them. A word of totality of effort, and devotion to God. He won't let me just have fun and give them motivational seminar type stuff.
Eventually, unless the kids are already sick of superficiality (as the discerning ones now are, at the church I was attending), your work will be sidelined, or the hall will be needed for something urgent (even a one off) on the night you have it, and the cycle is broken
Again, these things have happened. Most of the kids who attend are hungry for truth. They've been coddled and worked into frenzies long enough and just want to know what God has to say. What's funny is that half the people who attend are from outside the church and Baptist churches at that. That is a source of inspiration to me because I know that when real revival comes it will go beyond denominational affiliation. God called me to pastor and preach. He did not call me to maintain the status quo. I have every assurance that my struggles will not be in vain. I does get tiresome at times though.
May we be led by the HOLY SPIRIT and not of ourselves so that WHEN the triumph comes we will not boast of ourselves but of Christ.
Wow, your post said just exactly what I've been going through. But I do believe that the best is yet to come. And that is the best from God and yet the worst from man.
Be blessed.
Hello hoohoou,I voiced none of those fears, or experiences, above and yet you spoke to them all.
Honestly, I'm speaking only from observation and past and present experience. I've been hurt, and others have been hurt.
I know. In the end, you will have to decide whether to continue to give their youth work credibility by your connection with them, or, to find other healthy leadership with which to be associated.I won't say it's the church leadership doing it on purpose
I know from Carter Conlon's testimony, that the youth in New York who attend their work, are heartily sick of compromise.
Once, I did a word search for 'loyal' in scripture, and couldn't find it in the KJV anywhere. You may be being asked for loyalty to your leadership, and yet you already know
This is what my local cell group leader has been going through. And yet, under the previous leadership, there were quarterly meetings for all cell group leaders to have fellowship with one another, ask questions, and receive guidance. Now, they are being asked to base the home meeting on the weak and shallow Sunday message, and, to think of it as 'not a church meeting'. :-obut we don't get any support
A very big AMEN!God called me to pastor and preach. He did not call me to maintain the status quo. I have every assurance that my struggles will not be in vain. I does get tiresome at times though.May we be led by the HOLY SPIRIT and not of ourselves so that WHEN the triumph comes we will not boast of ourselves but of Christ.
I hope to pray for you and your wife in the coming months.
Praise God! That's tremendous.Most of the kids who attend are hungry for truth. They've been coddled and worked into frenzies long enough and just want to know what God has to say. What's funny is that half the people who attend are from outside the church and Baptist churches at that. That is a source of inspiration to me
I hope to pray for you and your wife in the coming months.
Please do. And I will pray for you and yours in your struggles as well. May we both find, or help usher in, that which only seeks to please God.
I am actually a Youth Pastor for AoG in Kansas. I can't attest for all of the AoG in Kansas but feel that sometimes sincerity isn't enough, I can have good intention but it doesn't make it right. I have a friend in seminary for the AoG and his instructor took him to see the Book of Eli which to me I saw contradiction. The theory of "since I know its bad its okay" seems to inflitrate the church of America because its not about God but about what we would prefer to do. As far as the "16 Fundamental Truths" I honestly don't have them memorized. Something that the Lord has shown me and put in my heart is that I can pledge no allegance to an organization, Church, Denomination, Group, Country, etc My alledgance is to Christ Alone. I have starting to see the inconsistancy of Have Faith, yet the focus is how many people you have. God is the only thing that can effectively grow a church and this is a truth that I hold to as well Quality Christian Over Quanity "Christians." I know that I didn't touch on the 16 Fundamental Truth as far as biblical I see nothing wrong with them practice of them seem shady but that is most people including myself that is why repentance is a daily thing.
God Bless,
Matthew
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