romance and Valentine Day?

Hey

I was talking with some other sisters this afternoon and the topic turned to this upcoming Valentines day. They were all talking about the big expensive gifts and plans they are expecting from either boyfriend/husband for Valentines day. I was really kind of surprised because although there was not anything really wrong with what they were talking about it all just sounded really worldly and selfish. I don't know if i was just being overly critical or not but it just seems to me as Christians should we be getting caught up in these things? When I started asking what exactly it was they were celebrating one lady told me that her and her husband really just enjoy celebrating their love and each other. She said they always do gifts and plan a romantic night out. Again I am not saying that its wrong just not comfortable with the focus being so much on self. One of the ladies was teasing me and told me I was just a cold fish, with not one romantic bone in my body. It kind of hurt my feelings but I did not say anything, although it has got me wondering if I am wrong about date nights, romance, and how this all fits into my understanding of what Biblical marriage is?

Anyone have any thoughts they want to share?
rdg

After thought I should add that I am married and feel like I have a strong marriage but we do not gush all over each other the way some of our couple friends do..(I wanted to add that when I wrote this I did not mean to imply that couple who do gush all over each other are wrong)

but we do not gush all over each other the way some of our couple friends do..

And why not?

My husband and I are on our 43th year of marriage and we are still romantic...he will buy me roses on valentine's day - how I love that! We do not exchange expensive gifts but I just love it when he gives me a real sweet card and some roses..:-)

Check your PM for more from me - some things are better said in private.

ginnyrose

Again I am not saying that its wrong just not comfortable with the focus being so much on self. One of the ladies was teasing me and told me I was just a cold fish, with not one romantic bone in my body.

Rainday,

I'm sorry to hear you got your feelings hurt, but you did ask for it.

Human feelings and experience, redeemed and sanctified to a state of grace that faintly recalls unspoiled man and woman before the fall, are a divine creation. Such beautiful dimensions of life are a gift from the Creator, not a cursing.

Mike

Hi
Maybe I did ask for it as you said. I was not trying to be rude or squash anyone's fun, just asking some questions.
Since posting this though I a call from one of the ladies I was talking with and she wanted to know if I wanted her husband to talk with mine about doing more to prove his love for me. I asked her what she meant, she said that she thought maybe I was feeling left out because my husband does not buy me gifts or show his love like the other husbands do. I told her that was not a problem for me and if I gave her that impression that I was sorry, I was just asking questions because of the way they were going on about what they were getting and going to be doing. She ended up telling me that she would pray for me because it was clear my marriage was in real trouble and I did not even know it?? I did not know what to say to her and I still don't. Do others feel this way to that if your not buying gifts, and holding hands, hugging and going out on dates all the time that the marriage is in trouble?

My husband and I have never been romantic, its just not who he is. He has never bought me flowers but he works really hard to provide for us so that when we do have children I can stay home to be with them. We do not go out on date nights as other couples our age but he does come home and not go out hanging out with the boys even though he could if he wanted to. He is not overly demonstrative with his affection in public, but I know if I need him he will be there no matter what. He does tell me he loves me all the time though, even more then I do him. This is really confusing to me right now

love in Him
rdg

Edit: I just wanted to make sure that I was not trying to say that being affectionate with your spouse in public is wrong. I did not say that to these ladies either I was more trying to understand their need to celebrate with expensive gifts and dates to prove ones love in a marriage and why it was so vital that your husband prove his love by buying things for you on Valentines Day.

Rainydaygirl

Please do not let anyone tell you that your marriage is in trouble because you do not do the things that some other couples have chosen to do.

I am also not saying that it is wrong to do some special things from time to time, but everyone today seems to be so caught up in themselves and enjoying the moment. When I read your post to my husband, he immediately opened his Bible to II Timothy 3:1-5 --

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traiters, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Today many people are "lovers of their own selves", "trucebreakers", and "lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God". That is what Valentine's Day is, it is a day to have pleasure. Galatians 4:10,11 advises against us "observing days, and months, and times, and years." According to Paul this is a sign of weakness.

God wants us to keep our priorities straight. Is it really necessary to spend a lot of money to tell you spouse that you love him/her? Thirty years ago and earlier couples were not out spending all kinds of money on each other and being affectionate in public. That was when most marriages still lasted a lifetime. Couples didn't need the constant high points in order to stay in love with each other. They were committed and loved each other and that is what mattered.

As far as your friends go, I would give you II Corinthians 10:12:

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

From what I read from you I believe you have a GREAT marriage. You and your husband seem to have a grasp on what is important in spending time together instead of finding every excuse to do activities away from each other. Don't let anyone tell you that your marriage is in trouble. You will always be much happier if you are able to enjoy each other and show each other your love without spending a lot of money doing so.

Hi again Rainyday,

a call from one of the ladies I was talking with and she wanted to know if I wanted her husband to talk with mine about doing more to prove his love for me.

You must be in a really close knit church for people to be so familiar with you that they feel free to ask such a thing!

Do others feel this way to that if your not buying gifts, and holding hands, hugging and going out on dates all the time that the marriage is in trouble?

I think gifts, practical ones certainly, but pointless one especially, are part of the language some can use to communicate love to one another. Yet it's the love that's important...and so if you and your husband are communicating just fine then there's no problemo!

My wife and I just went to dinner between my first response, and this one. I shared with her the question of this thread, and she reminded me that we might not know the full context for every one's perspective on this question. So true!

I guess my context; the original reason I reacted to your question in a certain way, is that I feel we take it upon ourselves to dissaprove of people too often, and many times this dissaproval is based on style and not substance. It can all lead to needless additional dissapointment with people...and perhaps a contrary disposition!

I did consider whether your question was more one of style or more one of substance. For instance, I know my Libby wants a certain style of expressed love from me...the kind I naturally tend to give anyways. She likes me to be very takative, and to occasionally surprise her with writing my feelings, She also appreciates lot's of undistracted face time like at the resturaunt tonight. She isn't a big fan of expensive gifts because she is sensititve to how such purchases can thwart our family peace and stability. (And I suspect this preference has more to do with living practically with self-employment then any "principle" of non-materialism.)

Well, that's her style I suppose. I also know women who appreciate expensive gifts, and that seems perfectly fine to me as well. Meanwhile, other women see love best when chores are being done! And still others when the man dotes on the children. Quite frankly, I admit I can't really claim to be an expert on this subject!

My point is that I think all these expressions, these dialects, are neither better nor worse then the things your friends were looking forward to.

Blessings,

MC

My husband and I have never been romantic, its just not who he is. He has never bought me flowers but he works really hard to provide for us so that when we do have children I can stay home to be with them. We do not go out on date nights as other couples our age but he does come home and not go out hanging out with the boys even though he could if he wanted to. He is not overly demonstrative with his affection in public, but I know if I need him he will be there no matter what. He does tell me he loves me all the time though, even more then I do him. This is really confusing to me right now

From the beginning post this all comes off to me as long nosed and condescending. Sometimes I think there is a great danger in trying to be too 'spiritual'. That probably sounds crazy, but seriously, sometimes what I read here on SI seems more to me a knock off of Islam or eastern religion than Christianity. There is nothing sinful or even compromising about being romantic with your spouse. To even imply that it is- is to begrudge the affection of others. Read the Song of Songs. It was given for our learning. Have any of us attained to that level?

Being spiritual has nothing to do with how long your skirt is or whether you wear a suit every Sunday (and I'm all for suits and long dresses for those that wear them). If has nothing to do with looking so sour it's as if someone downed a gallon of lemon juice. Being spiritual for a married couple is to be a reflection of the relationship between Christ and the Church. What could be worse than an [i]ascetic marriage[/i]? It becomes a situation where any enjoyment in life or anything of celebration is considered a sin or compromise.

I had not weighed in here except there are many young believers that read these posts. I want to say categorically that it is [u]not a sin to express love to your spouse[/u], but it is a sin to begrudge the love expressed to others. You risk being charged with envy. And that expression depends on the persons involved. To take on the attitude of the opening thread is to risk scandal like you can't imagine. We have to take time to work on our marriages. This is one of the ways the enemy get's a foothold in lives. Men start calling their wife 'the old lady' or acting like it- no one ever tells anyone they love the other- and it becomes a seedbed for the devils lies. I would kiss you goodby dear- but that would be fleshly. No, fleshly will be when that pretty little thang starts showing him some attention that he don't get at home or if that player at the grocery store starts to tell your wife how fine she is.

I had not weighed in here except there are many young believers that read these posts. I want to say categorically that it is not a sin to express love to your spouse, but it is a sin to begrudge the love expressed to others.

_______________________________________________

Honesty I never said that it was sin to express love for your spouse and I was not judging these ladies or anyone here on SI at all. I was asking a few questions because they were discussing spending a lot of money and how it was so important that their husbands prove their love to them by making sure they did all this stuff. I have only been a christian for a few years(not as long as many here I am sure) so I was asking questions because I was wanted to learn from those who are more mature.

Honestly between some of the reactions that I have gotten here and some that I got from those that I know in the real world I was clearly wrong and I am sorry I every asked this stupid question. Truly more sorry then any will ever know.

Please would one of the mods just remove this thread if possible. I really am sorry. Did not mean to offend anyone. I humble ask for anyone who was offended forgiveness.

Very sorry
rdg

Please would one of the mods just remove it or if possible. I really am sorry. Did not mean to offend anyone.

It's not necessary. I'm not offended and I doubt if anyone else is either. But what we have to guard against is a dangerous attitude that can eventually destroy us. This may well have been a God-send. As a young Christian I did a lot of really radical things that seemed spiritual. But honestly, it has been at times when I thought I was most spiritual that the enemy came in and nearly destroyed my life. Never take your eye off of your home or assume that the devil is not at work. Never assume that the enemy will not attack. He will attack you in ways you are not prepared to handle; especially as you go into ministry and become a threat to his kingdom.

The danger is also that we don't talk about these things often enough. I have had older Christian holiness preachers sit me down and talk to me about the dangers I am talking about. I thought something was wrong with [i]them[/i] or that they needed revival!

I used to think that a romantic night means sitting and listening to a sermon with the wife. But a wise teacher told me once that he and his wife does not listen to Amazing Grace to their candle light dinner. That was shocking to me! But we have to have wisdom. And sometimes our reactions to what others are doing are a red flag in our own life. As a young Christian let me encourage you to always be vigilant. You will likely change over time. You may not want certain things today- but in time that may change. Don't make boundaries for yourself- either literal or implied- that are unnecessary.

No worries here Rainygirl.

Please please may I say something? As I was reading Rainyday"s first post and the way it swerved almost immediately, I felt badly because of it.

I believe she had a legitimate concern for what she was hearing these ladies discuss and that if you had overheard the conversation, you might have a clearer understanding of her concern.

When my daughter-in-law to be was going to have a shower, a friend of hers remarked on making a trip to a certain store and I was very upset that she would say what she did in front of me and my daughter-in-law is very shy and discreet.

We need sometimes to remember to keep the marriage bed holy and unless I'm interpreting things wrongly myself, I have also heard "over the top" sort of things spoken where a warning buzzer went off. Was she judging the conversation, or grieved through the Holy Spirit? Love between married couples has long been affected by the world's over rated view of romance and stress on intimacy.

I don't think this dear saint intended anything but to question certain things that were discussed. I trust that she felt safe inquiring about it here, and I did not detect any harshness in her post.

Maybe we have been too affected by the world in yet another holiday and what it represents. Rainydaygirl, I'm blessed that you are so content by not setting the same sort of standards on one day as many. I bless your house for your husband's desire to provide and do what is most pleasing before the Lord. God bless.

Love between married couples has long been affected by the world's over rated view of romance and stress on intimacy.

With all due respect, I have to strongly disagree here. This is the type of thing I have challenged in this thread; not because I enjoy a conflict, but because this is very serious territory and a lot of confusion exists here. The devil did not invent romance- God did. Nor did the devil invent intimacy. I am more inclined to say that the world has lost it's way in romance and all that is left is a cheap lust in which the masses having lived in fornication before marriage and have almost no real ability for intimacy. Consider this passage from Proverbs 5:

[i] Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee. Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?[/i]

There is a danger in Proverbs 5 that the antidote is given for. That danger is adultery. The antidote? Be thou [i]ravished[/i] always with her love. The context is clearly affection and attention. Let your fountain be blessed and [i]rejoice[/i] with the wife of your youth. This is the joy of marriage that protects men and women from [i]real[/i] sin. Setting boundaries that God did not set is a recipe for scandal. We have to take God seriously here and not esteem ourselves wiser than He.

The time would fail us to examine the Song of Solomon. It sounds scandalous even to many of our ears. Is this gushing? We are light years past giving flowers and going to dinner. That would be childs play compared to this revelation. But the Holy Spirit is the author. Solomon wrote as he was moved by the Holy Spirit. This tells me that romance and intimacy has it's origin in God and the devil knows noting about it.

You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride;
you have stolen my heart
with one glance of your eyes,
with one jewel of your necklace.

How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride!
How much more pleasing is your love than wine,
and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!

Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride;
milk and honey are under your tongue.
The fragrance of your garments is like that of Lebanon.

After reading RobertW's reply I cant wait to get married!!!!!

I wanted to share something that has been precius to me and something i have re-read over and over again many times.

A little nook in the very heart of God

God's plan for every marriage is happiness.

Marriage is meant to be a miniature of heaven—a
fragment of the celestial blessedness, let down into
this world.

Marriage is meant to be a little sanctuary, into which
husband and wife may flee from earth's storms and
dangers, where in love's shelter, their hearts fed with
affection's daily bread—they may dwell in quiet peace.

Marriage is meant to be a shelter in which, covered
from the frosts of the world and shielded from its cold
and tempests—two lives may grow together into richest
beauty, realizing their sweetest dreams of happiness,
blending in whatever things are true, whatever things
are pure, and attaining the finest possibilities of godly
character.

Marriage is meant to be a holy ark, floating on the wild
floods of human life—like Noah's ark on the deluge,
bearing to heaven's gates, to the harbor of glory—the
lives which God has shut within its doors.

A godly marriage is a little nook in the very heart of
God, where faithful souls are held close to the Father's
heart, and carried safely, amid dangers and sorrows, to
the home above!

(J. R. Miller, "The Marriage Altar" 1898)

After reading RobertW's reply I cant wait to get married!!!!!

Marriage is not a drudgery if we are careful to listen to God's counsel. Whether one marry's or not should be based upon God's purposes and the 'gift' that each of us has (I Cor. 7). But I don't mind saying that we can live good lives as believers. Some young people are under the impression that God's will for their life is to marry someone and live [i]miserably[/i] ever after. they think they need to marry a sinner to find some excitement. Just keeping it real here. This is also why many go into sin because they think living a Christian life is meant to be some dull dead existence. But that is the lie of the devil.

[i]For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.[/i] (Jer. 29:11)

Over and over in Proverbs we are given wise practical counsel about our daily existence. We can't always live on the mountain and drink straight grape juice. There is a practical side to our spiritual lives that requires that we study God's word and not seek to somehow improve on it by adding to or taking away from (it). Proverbs 1 tells of the finality of those that refuse God's counsel. It is a book loaded with practical instruction on how to keep ourselves from scandal.

When do people generally try to get romance in marriage? [i]After[/i] they find out their spouse has been cheating on them. Then they burn their car up trying to get to Borders Books or the local Christian book store to get The Five Love Languages or some other book to help them get past it. I don't say that as a criticism; but as a warning to those that think they stand- take heed lest you fall. You are not too spiritual for a little romance in your life. God forbid that any would have to learn this advice the hard way. Society is loaded with scandal- but we are not ignorant of the devil's devices if we are willing to study and apply what God has said.

RobertW and Christian - I love your posts! They are so sweet and so true!

Someone has said that only Christians can experience real romance because they do it God's way by confining themselves only to each other and concentrating on serving the other. And I agree.

It is easy to settle into a routine after marriage and perhaps the 'fire' wanes some. There is a lot of danger when this is allowed to continue indefinitely. It is like one poster said - another will come along and with sweet words minister to an emotional need that developed because these desires were left untended.

Having said all this, I do think that to demand expensive gifts as a symbol of one's love is selfish. Period. Little things done on a regular basis mean so much and they cost little. This is what helps to keep the fires of romance alive. Hugging and kissing in public is not proper - unless one is fixing to leave for some time, like at an airport - but you could hold hands! I still thrill to the feel of my husband's strong, large hands. It reminds me how much bigger he is then me and that I am safe with him! :-)

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Hi All,
Interesting posts.
Let me begin by saying that i'm all for date nights and romance, bless God! I'm not sure about the expensive gifts part but then that's relative too! Depending on your financial resources, a $100 gift is nothing to one and expensive to another.

That said, there's a whole lot of foolishness that folk can get into on account of Valentine's day. If the DHs of the sisters in rdg's church are happy to provide said expensive gifts to their DWs, all is well. If it's a noose round their necks, that's a whole 'nother matter altogether.

Not sure who said this but i agree...Christian marriage should be a picture of heaven. I believe God instituted marriage out of His great big heart of love.

Rdg, as long as you and DH are happy in your expressions of love to one another, i think all is well. Besides, you could find some inspiration in the Song of Solomon too. There are portions there you could read to DH.

Our church is full of young unmarried uns many of whom have no notion of what a joyful, godly marriage is. Because of this, I'm conscious of my interactions with DH in public. I'm glad that a few of my single girlfriends have remarked to me how they would love to have a marriage like mine.

DH and i are active in church, he in bible-studies, moi, in leading worship. So folk know we love Jesus but it's also important to me that they know we also ENJOY being with each other. We have fun, we laugh, hug etc. We love gushing over each other.....especially in public!
All that is spiritual too!

Peace to all

After many tears spent this last night and asking my dear husband to please forgive me for causing such a mess, I thought that I might try with this one last post to share with you all again what was on my heart. It is my prayer that I will not blunder things so badly this time.

When I was younger(not all that long ago) I spent a good deal of my time in love stories. I use to fantasize for hours about my prince and how he would one day sweep me off my feet. I use to make up my own little stories and imagine that this was how marriage to my prince would be. I would give him my heart and he would give me his and just like Darcy and Elizabeth we would spend all our days and nights completely in love and I would be the center of his universe. Then I met my husband, and he was not the prince I always dreamed about, and marriage was not full of romance all the time, and things were not as I always imagined they would be. Instead of fantasy there was life to be dealt with. When I came to the Lord, I knew if I wanted my marriage to last, one of the things that I had to die to was all these notions I had of marriage and romance from movies and books because they were all about self. Things like valentines day, candies, flowers and diamonds didn't seem to have the same a lure to me as I once thought they did. I no longer needed the intensity of a Hollywood romance because I found in Jesus that loving my husband and caring for him more then I did self was a better way.(for me) It was really self on my part that desired to be the center of the universe or to hold anothers heart completely. Over time I came to see that Jesus is the only one who should ever hold that place in our life. The more time I spent in seeking the Lord the more I am seeing that loving another is not about what they can or have to do to prove their love by observing certain days or buying gifts. Its more about the every day things and knowing that my husbands desire is the same as mine to walk with the Lord together. To make Jesus the one who matters most in both our lives.

The women that I was talking with were talking about valentines day, and their plans, their date nights. One of them mentioned how she had picked out a very expensive pair of diamond earrings that her husband had better not forget to get her. They were talking about their plans for the day, dinners, gifts, and the like. It really reminded me of all the Hollywood hype of what love is and so that is when I opened my mouth and asked them what would happen if they didn't get the gifts or the flowers, or the earrings? Why was that so important to them and so it began. Then I came here and I posted in such a way that made some very upset and I know I did not word things very well because people kept saying your judging and I really was not trying to. Again I am sorry, I was more trying to understand if it is truly healthy for us as young women to be getting so caught up with expecting these things, these kind of romantic things that the world says husbands must do if they really love us? I was not trying to say that it is wrong if one spouse desires to do these things for the other, but should any of it be expected as a way of proof? Compared to many here I am a baby christian and I know I have much to learn but it is confusing when I look to the Word and it talks about sacrifice and putting others first and the two coming together as one to further His Kingdom and yet there are those who profess His name who tell me that what really matters in a marriage is buying gifts and candle lite dinners, and spending every moment making the other person feel special. Is that honestly really humanly possible to do even, I mean spend all your time in your marriage making your spouse feel happy and special all the time? I guess I am trying to figure out what is love? and what is a good marriage?

As for affection in public I did not say it was sinful or wrong to hold hands, or hug but i do think even those in the church go to far at times with this. Also for the record I did not say that my husband and I do not have intimacy, I said we do not gush all over each other, (I should have added in public as some of our friends do.) My husband is not romantic, this is not something new to me either. He was never romantic when we first dated(we were very young) but he is a really great guy and I am thankful for him. He has grown and matured in the Lord and like me he still has areas that he needs to die to. For me knowing that Jesus is the love of his life actually gives me great comfort because I know he does not want to walk in such a way to bring sorrow to his first love...Jesus!!

Anyway if you read this far thanks for letting me try to clear things up. I really do hope that I have been able to better convey what I was trying to say and not that I was speaking against what others do in their marriage. If I still have written in such a way that someone finds offensive please know that was not the intention of my heart ever. Some of this is what is running through my mind this morning. I also wanted to take a moment and say thank you to some who posted in the thread, what you shared really did help.

thank you
rdg

Hi RDG,

Thanks for sharing here. I for one am absolutely not offended at all. This thread has gone in different directions than just the original posts. I surely wish you and yours all the best. Be encouraged in the Lord! We serve a wonderful Savior that cares about these things! He knows where we are and is concerned about even the little things. Delight yourself in Him all your days and you will marvel at what He will bring to pass. God Bless.