sermonindex
Feb 16, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2D_5ruJaUc
This is called Lord save us from your followers, it seems way off from biblical christianity, what do you all think of this movement?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2D_5ruJaUc
This is called Lord save us from your followers, it seems way off from biblical christianity, what do you all think of this movement?
This is called Lord save us from your followers, it seems way off from biblical christianity, what do you all think of this movement?
I think "way off" is an understatement. It seemed like he might be going somewhere at the beginning and thought that the apologizing in the confessional, minus the confessional, might be a good idea. I think a lot of times Christians have used humanistic reasons for denouncing homosexuality. We shouldn't think it's wrong because we think it's gross. It's wrong because God says it is, but He still loves the people and longs for them to know Him. But the video quickly deteriorated into the basic humanistic love fest that Christianity seems to be today. I'd rather ruin someones day and save their life than make them smile and send them to hell. Like that one guy said, he heard there were Christians and felt they were condemning his lifestyle. Making them feel OK in their sin is more a condemnation than telling them God hates what they do.
All he is really saying is there are some
who claim to know and follow Christ but
have no understanding what that means!!
I watched the clip and emailed them. I believe this teaching is very dangerous. First of all Dan Merchant is upset that America is divided and blames Christians for this. While we (meaning Christians) need to be motivated out of love when we witness to the lost, the message of Jesus can bring division because often people don't want to give their lives to Christ.
Luke 12:51-53 (KJV)
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Secondly, after emailing them with several questions they told me that they are trying to get people to like Christians so that they will like Jesus. Salvation is about so much more than liking Jesus or thinking Jesus is just some good man.
Finally, after asking them why they are against James Dobson they would not answer me but sent me a link to reviews of the film. Here is one review, tell me if you see anything wrong with it.
http://nppnblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/city-impact-portland-or-new-way-to.html
I see whats happening in America, along with this film, as the apostasy that is prophesied will take place in the last days. What good does it do anyone if we are nice to them but withhold the truth from them?
I am back again. First I posted, reread and it seemed I posted on the wrong thread. Then when I looked for the link I was responding to I saw it in the post above mine written by fieldlaborer.
This is the my response to it, not the one that was posted in the lead post.
I am responding to this blog: http://nppnblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/city-impact-portland-or-new-way-to.html
Here it is :
Quote from blog:
"What we're saying now," Palau adds, "is wouldn't it be amazing to partner with the city and corporate leaders to make the community better?"
Imagine Jesus saying this, or his disciples. I suppose if he would have, he would not have been crucified. And if his disciples would have they would not have been persecuted, either.
My opinion.
ginnyrose
I am happy to hear you emailed them brother because it sounds very dangereous to me too.
I saw nothing dangerous in this video.......Frank
I saw nothing dangerous in this video.......Frank
Greetings Frank
Can I ask you did you think that there was any compromise in the video?
God Bless
maryjane
Let me ask you a question in return; why do think A. there are so few Jews today, who have confessed Messiah Jesus?
is there anything that would make the Jewish people envious of so great a salvation via the witness, walk and or love of the modern evangelical church?
do you think it might have something to do with over 1700 years of memory of being hounded persecuted and killed by "christians", who had the words, "kill a Jew for Jesus!" shrieked from the mouth of either crusaders, cossacks, german lutherans or christian identity neo nazi's in the us?
I'll confess, sometime's i read posts on this forum, that make my skin crawl, sometimes i hear things uttered in the public marketplace by purported Christian leaders, that make me want to go hide in a cave in shame, at how perverted the Message of Salvation, the Message of the Resurrected Messiah has become....a TELEVISION PREACHER calling for the assassination of a foreign democratically elected president of another nation? the leader of the NAE, who shrieked loud and long about homosexual marriage, all the while he himself was enagaging in drug soaked homosexual whore-mongering? a freak revivalist. covered in tatoo's, playing with God to enrich his purse, feed his lusts, divorce his wife, and then magically get "restored" by another fleshling and start the whole mess over again?
it makes me sick, so many hypocrites have taken a beautiful concept, "evangelical", and made it a stench in the public place.
But personally, i can never go back. I KNOW Jesus is Messiah, Risen from the dead, His Blood is wholly sufficient to cleanse us from all sins, Jesus is the Answer, the Only Way, i can never go back, Praise His Name, but a lot of His purported followers?
religionists.....or should i say, religion kills, Jesus saves.
I must concur with my fellow colleague.I saw nothing dangerous in this video.......Frank
Let God do the changing. We need to accept people the way they are without telling them anything in the way they should live, let the Holy Ghost convict and convince them of their sin. Jesus sat with homosexuals, harlots and thieves and not once is it ever said that He condemned anyone for being what they were, accept for the Pharisees. He told them stories and shared the love of God. God save us from His followers.
Most people don't understand why they are the way they are. They grew up in a Christian home, in the closet scared to tell anyone their secret because the Church has a nasty way of exposing and pointing the finger with condemnation. They know something is wrong, fear drives them away from the church where they find love and acceptance of those that have the same problem. Because of that love and acceptance they will protect that even though they have become deceived. If we did our part in the first place none of these people would have to run away. We could have accept them the way they were. "It's the goodness of God that leadeth men unto repentance". I remember a woman who came into the church practically nothing on, and as she was walking down the aisle a sister took her coat and went right up behind her and covered her with God's love. She didn't call her names, she didn't put her down for coming into the Church looking like that, she let the convicting power of the holy Ghost do His work in and through her.
God save us from your followers who love to relish in condemning that which you have paid a great price and atone for and made clean by your blood.
When we say, "God loves the sinner and hates the sin". Bad words to express to a homosexual. For their sin is who they have come to believe. When we say that to them, they are hearing you say that God hates them. No wonder they hate God, I would too. No, God loves period!!
Holiness will spread repentance into their soul.
Greetings Neil
I don't have an answer to your question. I know some people of Jewish decent but they are all Christians so I am sorry I don't have an answer for you as to why there are so few Jews who have come to know Jesus as Lord.
I watched the video and well I did not feel like it was dangerous I did come away from it feeling like maybe there is some compromise with it. That was just my take on it.
As for some of the other things you mentioned, I honestly don't know to much about those who are on the television or who are running the structured churches in America because I have not attended a church in over eleven years now.
I was just asking Frank if he felt that any part of the video seemed like there might have been some compromising going on was all. I was just curious about his opinion was all.
On another note, How have you been Neil? I hope your health is improving. I have been praying for you. Your absolutely right Jesus is the only answer, sharing with others their need for Him is what we are called to as His followers.
God Bless you and take care of yourself:)
mj
Hi Maryjane,
I think peolple may have the biggest problems with the confesional where the man apolgized to homosexuals and also the critisisms of Pat Robertson and Dr Dobson. I have no problem with Christians confessing to any group of people for a lack of love. If we do not have love as per 1 Cor 13, then we profit nothing.
As for Pat and Dr Dobson, I have critized both of those men on this very forum. It is no secret that I believe that they led the Christian community deep into the bowels of politics and were merely used by certain politicans for political gain. (please no debate on those points, its all been said:)
What did you think was compromise Maryjane? ......brother Frank
Greetings Frank
I think peolple may have the biggest problems with the confesional where the man apolgized to homosexuals
I did think that this part seemed compromising to some degree. I guess I would like to have heard the person go on to share more of Jesus with them. It is very important to let others know of Christs love but its equally important to share with them about the condition of their hearts(no matter what sin they are in) and their great need for Jesus.
In my own experience I have learned that we only have so many chances to share with a person who is lost and if we fail to share fully the gospel of Jesus with them there may not be another opportunity. I have had to learn this the hard way, I did not speak loving truth about the sin someone was in and now they are gone, its to late. Of course when ever we share with another it must be with a Christ centered and loving heart but with out compromise.
As for Pat and Dr Dobson, I have critized both of those men on this very forum. It is no secret that I believe that they led the Christian community deep into the bowels of politics and were merely used by certain politicans for political gain. (please no debate on those points, its all been said:)
I do not follow either of these two men personally so I don't really have much to say concerning them. No debates from me:)
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.
God Bless
maryjane
you should watch the whole movie they present brother that was only 10 minutes of it.
A couple of other things to note that I did not post earlier that bothered me. Why do they use quotes from the likes of Al Franken and Bill Maher to get make their point? Maher hates Christians. Also, the film won awards from beliefnet.com. The homepage on this site lets you pick what religion you believe, hindu, muslim, buddism, mormon, or Christianity. If this movie presents the Gospel as it should be don't you think a web site like this would reject it? Instead it wins an award as best spiritual documentary. As far as people saying that we should not let others know they are in sin read Ezekiel 33.
Finally, it sounds like Dan Merchant read this post and took it to heart
We must reach out in love, but we must not compromise the truth.
beloved,
i bear guilt in that my words may seem angry, AND directed towards you, or others here. I beg forgiveness if it was taken that way, from you or anyone reading these words, and anyone who was such offended, please forgive me.
as God puts it in my heart for the Vine, the people of my flesh, i have much much grieving. among the Jews, there are those who love Yahweh, dearly, there are those who thirst for righteousness, and they are so close, and yet so far, and sometimes i feel in the depth of my heart, that there is a fell wall of 1700 years, a witness of Messiah Jesus must CUT thru, to prick their hearts, open their ears, open their hearts, and i am only just one lonely saint, i speak this way, in the morning, because i'm right in the middle of my devotional Scripture reading. i dont say that to boast, if such boasting be, Let it be in the LORD GOD, fore it is He who gives me the Hunger to eat of His Word, one of three gifts He has given me, and I'm in Isaiah right now, started this morning in Isaiah 48, then into 49, with the Third of the Four Suffering Servant Songs that speak SO CLEARLY of Messiah and His Call to the "nations", and then into then into the Fourth Suffering Servant song, chapters 52-53....such joy! my fingers are inadequate to even innumerate this holy joy i feel, that God would send HIs SON Jesus to us, ALL....to the world.
You know Mary Jane, when God revealed His Son in me, and to me, it was no man that preached a Gospel message, i wasnt sitting in a Church, (though once recieved this Revelation of Jesus, i made my way to the Church God had selected for me) i was up in a house trailer on a horse ranch alone broken and weeping, praying, "God please be with me", over and over again, and He took mercy upon me, and revealed His Son Jesus Messiah to me, and there was only one Path available to me, the path to Golgatha, to the Cross, to the Blood, and to Jesus.
and it grieves me no end that my fellow Jews, who love God, havent recognized that the waiting is over, He HAS COME, the Holy One of Israel.
as to my health, praise God i still have breath, sometimes our food is the bread of affliction, and our drink is the cup of our tears, and it is good, God refines one in such a furnace of affliction, and thank God, i have never raised a fist to my Father asking why, i just thank Him for His Rod, and His Holy Spirit, That comforts us all, who shelter under His Wing.
again, i deeply apologize for hasty words, its just the outpouring of a broken heart, know that i love you in the Glorious Riches of the Risen Messiah, and in my heart, as i love all of my brothers and sisters, fearfully knit together in the fullness of time.
in Jesus' love, neil
I'm curious. I wonder why people were going into confessionals? Did they know that someone was going to apologize for some wrong or prejudice exercised by a group against them? Or were they reaching out for some thread of salvation from sin? I guess I'm wondering if these 'penitents' (I think that's the term used for those going into confessionals)went in looking for some light. If this was the reason for going in, and what they received was a sense of comfort or justification (this seemed to be the general reaction of those exiting the confessional), does that not just deepen the darkness? I take issue with the phrase, "Lord, save us from Your followers." I pray that the Lord will bring me to His followers - not the ones who claim His name, but live contrary to His ways - they are not HIS followers. Many will say, "Lord, Lord" to whom He will say, "I never knew you." Don't the true followers of Jesus lay down their lives, rather than take life? It seems that to apologize for the sins of a group who only claim the Name, but show no lasting fruit, who appear to be following another Jesus with another gospel, to apologize for that group's sins seems to dilute the blood of the precious martyrs who have demonstrated being true followers of Christ by laying down their lives. I'm crying out for the Lord to bring me to that group, not to save me from them.
Prayerfully submitted
David
Neil wrote:
it makes me sick, so many hypocrites have taken a beautiful concept, "evangelical", and made it a stench in the public place.
Brother, this battle in initiated by the Enemy. He will do everything he can to subvert the Gospel. Always. The Enemy will use religious leaders to promote his agenda. Actually, he has better success in using these religious leaders then he does using totally secular ones because they do not know the language.
Neil, the church I belong to carries a name that goes way back to reformation era. The larger segment of this church has apostatized and they embarrass me, too, to no end. They have departed from the simplicity of the Gospel and exchanged it for a social gospel, one that works to improve society by humanitarian methods. No preaching against sin. In the past they were even reluctant to speak out against abortion! Now how much worse can it get? Embarrassing. But you know what? I am not responsible for their apostasy. Others have tried to warn them but to no avail. These prophets are mocked and scorned. Today I feel closer kinship spiritually to the likes of Paul Washer, who is a Baptist and who likely holds different views on some doctrines I consider important.
This is life, Neil. Be encouraged. God still calls people to himself. Unfortunately, it may not be the ones you would love to see redeemed. I can say this for my extended family as well: they have discarded the faith like a moth eaten garment!
Blessings,
ginnyrose
Perfect snufalapagus! Man says judgment - God says mercy. The sister who put the coat on the lady truly had God's heart. The ushers could have come and rushed her out and completely turned her away from knowing God and being delivered. Oh, that there would be more like her in every Church. God help us!!! I don't think we really get 1 Cor. 13 so much of the time. 1 Cor. 14:1 Pursue love. Where is our love, our joy, our peace - Zac Poonen said we are to be like little children, a child might have come up and said how pretty the colors were in her outfit!!! Zac also said we are to leave things in the hands of our Heavenly Father and as we do that the peace,the joy & love comes. The more we sit at the feet of Jesus and learn of Him, them more we fall in love with Him and the more we encourage ourselves when challenges come our way to choose His ways.
I got several chances to do this on my trip as situations came up that were challenging I had a choice to panic or to trust and rest. Not a place to stay in a blizzard, God provided a rustic cabin in the middle of nowhere for me. A true blessing since I am a mountain gal. A flat tire in the middle of nowhere - all alone - God provided a young man to change it for me. Motels were all full coming back and I had my two dogs. God provided a motel 6. Not a nice place but I got the last room. And since I just had recently listened to Zac on this matter I was able to put it into action and the results were fantastic. I got help and was blessed and was able to bless others as I did not panic. I had peace and joy and was able to love others and let my light shine. I loved it. This is how I always want to be. God help me, God help us all to trust, rest, joy, have peace and love. They will know we are Christians by our love. Amen and Amen!
HI Maryjane, you write....
"It is very important to let others know of Christs love but its equally important to share with them about the condition of their hearts(no matter what sin they are in) and their great need for Jesus."
I think right there is a good point to talk about. I will give you an example from my own life. Prior to coming to Christ I was a drunk. I got saved at the age of 26. By that time I had been married for nine years, lost one child and had a six year old. Often when I was drunk I would go visit my mother, a very Godly woman. It must have grieved her heart to see her oldest son turn out just like his father. Not one time did she rebuke me for my lifestyle or my drinking, not once. She would talk about Jesus. She would speak from her heart and share what Jesus has spoken into her heart that day or what He was doing in her life or how much she loved Jesus, it was interwoven into everything she did and said. My very cold heart would always be slightly warmed in her presence. I felt tremendous conviction about my lifestyle, not because she rebuked me for it, but because the Holy Spirit was about His work, convicting me and wooing me. I continued to to visit her. Would I have continued to visit her if I got lectures? I doubt it. o, what am I trying to say? I guess what I am trying to say that it is the Holy Spirit that does the convicting of in. We are commisioned to share the Gospel and make disciples, to share the good news. And what is the good news? That God so loved the world that He gave HIs only Son for it? Yes, I think that is it. Do all men already know they are sinners? Yes, accroding to Scripture they do.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
You see, all men suppress the truth, which means they hold it down, the push it down and cover it. That is why there is no such thing as athiests, they may say that, but God has planted the knowledge of His existence in them. They choose to ignore it for the sake of living their lives the way they want to live it, but they are guilty before the living God. This is His work, His Holy Spirits work, and it is revealed through the Love of Calvary. So, I say, let the Holy Spirit do His work and let us do what we are called to do. The Spirit of conviction comes when we walk in the power of Truth and love. When we love our enemies, when we give water to our enemies, coals of fire are heaped upon them. For many Christians they long to see the coals of fire heaped upon sinners, yet only through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit can this happen and that Spirit moves when we move as we are called.
No coals of fire come when there is no love. Sinners are not drawn to Christ when there is no love in the Christian sharing the message, we only futher alienate them. Without love burning in our hearts for the lost, we may as well never share the Gospel, for we will never see anyone saved if we do not have the Love of Christ burning in our chests. Love for the lost cannot be faked, they can spot a phony at a thousand yards. So I would say to anyone who has never saw anyone come to Christ when they have shared the Gospel(Barna says that that is 92% of Christians) to cry out to God for a love for their enemies, this is where the battle lies. Jesus did not come to condemn, but to seek and to save the Lost. Let us walk in that path and let the Holy Spirit do His work............brother Frank
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