Hi everyone.
who preaches on imprecatory prayer, I guess it seems to justify cursing people and giving them over to death etc.
he talks about placing curses on public figures to remove them.
Kathleen, after reading your post this morning I've been meditating on the question you brought up and would like to share a few things that came to mind.
First, I think there is an important distinction to be made between expressing a desire for justice or for God to interven(which KingJimmy already mentioned), and "cursing" others. I'm inclined to believe that there can be a legitimate place for the former under the New Covenant, but I think that great caution is nescessary in even considering the latter. I hope to share a few reasons why.
The American Heritage Dictionary defines [b]imprecatory[/b] this way:
im·pre·cate (¹m“pr¹-k³t”) tr.v. im·pre·cat·ed, im·pre·cat·ing, im·pre·cates. To invoke evil upon; curse. [Latin imprec³ri, imprec³t- : in-, towards; see IN-2 + prec³rº, to pray, ask; see prek- below.] --im“pre·ca”tor n. --im“pre·ca·to”ry (-k…-tôr”¶, -t½r”¶) adj.
There are at least two classes of prayers or examples that came to mind that we could consider - the prayers of David in the Psalms, and also the few New Testament examples, some of which were already mentioned.
[b]The Psalms of David[/b]
A couple of things came to mind that I thought would be important to remember if someone were to use these examples as a pattern for the New Testament believer in authority and prayer.
One, it should be remembered that David was not only a man that had enemies, but he was the King of Israel and fought the Lord's battles(1Sa 25:28) and he sat in the seat that ultimately belonged to God(Gen 49:10, 1Sa 8:7, Luke 1:32) and so his battles and troubles and his enemies were not only his own, but those of the nation, his nation, and of God. David is an exeptional example and though his prayers in the Psalms speak so much to you and I and give a tremendous expression to the variety of things that we all can feel and experience in life, that is not to say that we can or should pray something exactly as David did, because he did it, or that we can use him as a model for everything that you and I do. Prayer is a deeply personal expression to God and what we pray depends on who we are and where we are in life at any moment.
Besides this we know that we have a greater example than David for our personal lives, the Greater son of David, whom David in the Spirit also called Lord. And we have clear instruction from Him(both His words and His examples)to pray for those that take us as enemies, not against them. And to bless them, not invoke upon them a curse.
While I do think there is example in the scripture for desiring to see justice done and judgment of those that persecute the righteous and who do evil to others and do great harm, especially in the life and prayers of David, yet doesn't the Lord Jesus elevate it all? Does He not inject into even the harshest situations a persistent element of mercy and a longing for God's grace so that the believer is nearly always bound to mix into even these sorts of prayers a desire for God to show His compassionate love? are we not always and forever bound so long as we ourselves are sojourning in clay vessels upon the Earth to say with James,
"mercy triumpths over judgement"?
Doesn't He extend patience and offer mercy to the point of the extreme? Doesn't He tell Peter to forgive not 7 but 70 times 7?
I think this then leads us to the second class of examples, those in the New Testament.
[b]The Example of Paul the Apostle[/b]
About 2 Timothy 4:14, I agree with KingJimmy that it is reasonable to believe that Paul had for sometime strove with this man with only the desire for his good, but he says that he had [i]greatly withstood our words[/i]. And so now it appears that Paul had given up and, in writting to Timothy, expresses a desire that God would(or perhaps will) judge him according to what he had done(I think more that Paul may have been only expressing confidence that God would reward this man according to what he had done, not nescessarily asking that God would do so).
Whatever the Apostle had intended to express exactly, he doesn't ask God to do anything specifically, that is he doesn't 'curse' the man or express a desire that God would cause him to die, for example. Whatever the case, I think we can be confident that Paul, who had elsewhere said that God bore him witness, that he could wish [b]himself[/b] accursed(from Christ) for the sake of his kinsmen, that he was not praying with malice or a desire that this man would perish or even die for that matter.
But does God permit believers to put a 'curse' upon others?
Another example from the New Testament that stood out in thinking on these things was the incident that is described in Acts 13 between Paul and a man named Elymas who is there described as a 'sorcerer'. Does this incident, where as soon as Paul pronounces an evil sentence upon him it comes to pass, does something like this serve as a scriptural precedent for believers to say or to ask similar things from God to come upon others?
One, Paul was an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ and he was as much an earthly mouthpiece for God as the prophets were of old. He not only wrote under the inspiration of God, but at times he spoke under His inspiration also and here is no less an example of that.
I do not believe that Paul, in saying what he did to the man, was [i]asking[/i] anything of God, not at all, but he was rather declaring what God was about to and was then going to do. This is prophetic forthtelling and not prayer, imprecatory or otherwise, at all.
Just as David who was also a prophet could say under inspiration 'let their table become a snare before them'(see Psalm 69:22, Romans 11:9), yet he does not express his own heart only, but is ultimatley saying something of or from and under the inspiration of God.
So, does God then permit believers to put a 'curse' upon others, according to their own will?
I can't say that I know exactly what God may or may not permit you or someone else to do, but my question would be, are they speaking for God?
As to what our desire for others should be and how we should pray for others, as for me, knowing how much and how often I have needed God's mercy and patience and forgiveness, I can not find any way to be consistent in my own heart and conscience than to always be asking for the same for others.
I suspect that if a man is teaching that we as believers can excercise spiritual authority over the powers of this world by praying against the people that hold it, that they are mistaking the spiritual authority that believers are given over spirts(Luke 10:19) for something to be used against the people in this world! God forbid, so far as I'm concernened.
That sounds more like witchcraft to me.