HELP! With positive confession theology.

I am involved in ministry to Hispanics in Louisiana. There are so few churches in Spanish that we Cristianos come together for the common goal of building the kingdom of God & winning souls ... even though we may come from different theological backgrounds. It is wonderful in some ways & challenging in others.

Recently some have come amongst who were heavily trained in what I've always referred to as "name it & claim it - blab it & grab it magical formula Christianity". To me it is a sad distortion of the gospel… & quite unrealistic.

They talk about confessing yourself healed ... Blessed ... Etc ... They make lot of emphasis on the POWER of our own words & confessions.

Does anybody know what scriptures they use to base such beliefs & teachings? It is my understanding from studying God's Word that ONLY when God is speaking through us by the power of the Holy Ghost can our words have any power. (Acts 13:11 ... Acts 16:18 ...) & not when we simply decide with our own minds to utter words of "power".

I've heard a lot of their talk. I'm just wondering if they have any scripture at all that even hints of such "authority" in our human originated words.

Confession is speaking forth what GOD has
promised. His Word is living and powerful;
and His Words are spirit and life!!
Speak the Word of Word. Speak the Word with
authority, with boldness, with conviction.
When you speak the Word of GOD you are
speaking truth and life!! When Jesus spoke
the Word; people were delivered, healed,
and saved !!

JOYCE MEYER

As Paul gave us an example of how a preacher of the gospel aught to live, I don't see Joyce Meyer embodying that, or any of the positive confession preachers.

Philippians 3:17-19 (KJV)
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

I see Joyce Meyer minding earthy things, what she says sounds good, but its not biblical.

"Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich.

Everything she has came from Him: the $10 million corporate jet, her husband's $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan, her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children — all blessings, she says, straight from the hand of God."

[url=http://www.trinityfi.org/press/JoyceMeyer1.html]Rest of Article Here[/url]

So carnally minded, their God is their belly.

Thanks for finding these "words" of Joyce Meyer. I'm still looking for scriptures that they might try to use to support their teachings. Satan himself can "speak the Word" but it will not accomplish God's purpose.

In Isaiah 55:11 God states that His word will not return unto HIM void, but will accomplish ... whereto I SENT IT. If God doesn't send His word through a person & they are merely parroting God's word ... HE DIDN'T SEND IT!

Joyce is writing to a huge audience. One who is a palm reader could get the understanding from her writing that simply parroting God's Word could give blessings to her clients.

AGAIN, thanks for passing on these words of Joyce ... I am still trying to see what actual words of God that those people twist to support the idea of any authority in our pronouncements of blessings, etc. Joyce, like so many others gives no scripture to back up her words ... Just rationalizations about God's Word in general.

I think a big one is Proverbs 18:21 "Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."

That is probably the single, purest verse to facilitate such doctrines. Themes and concepts from other scriptures are also used but not as direct chapter-verse quotes, such as the Isaiah passage you mentioned. They would say to find a promise of God to His people and declare that His word won't be void and "claim" it in there life. So in that case, it's not their words transforming situations so much as it is them coming into agreement with God's words and believing them to supercede any circumstance.

I have heard some preachers in my area use Romans Ch 4 to preach this false doctrine. They love to use this verse:

Romans 4:17 (KJV)
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

They love to use the Abrahamic blessing to tell others they can claim the things they don't have and receive. Paul's whole point in this is not to use faith to receive worldly possessions, but rather peace with God.

Romans 5:1-3 (KJV)
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

I marvel how the "name it claim it" preachers pull a verse out of a book but do not look at the context. You'll never hear one of these preachers say that we should glory in tribulations, because according to them we should never have tribulations. We have to remember when Jesus was tempted in the desert satan used scripture. Sadly the enemy knows the word, and is able to twist it because many people in churches are so unfamiliar with it. When a preacher quotes a scripture incorrectly, many churchgoers are sucked right into a fleshly gospel because they don't know what the whole of scripture says. How can this false doctrine be so rampant in the Church when we have more of scripture available to us than any other generation?

Greetings all,

Wanted to make a few comments first in regards to the qoutes attributed to Joyce Meyer:

"Confession is speaking forth what GOD has
promised."

But it is nescessary to rightly apply what God has said(2Ti 2:15) notwithstanding the rest of Scripture.

When the Lord Jesus spoke to those in the Synagouge what the Lord had promised in Isaiah 61, it was a promise, rightly applied: at the right time, in the right place, in the right Person.

"His Word is living and powerful;
and His Words are spirit and life!!"

This is true also of the Old Testament Law, but Paul says that the letter by itself can kill, but that God had made them(the Apostles) able, qualified ministers, not because they were able to recite in faith what God had said and promised, but by the power of God through His Spirit(2Co 3:1-6).

"Speak the Word with
authority, with boldness, with conviction."

All of which come from God through the Holy Spirit(Acts 4:29). While it is generally true that the Lord Christ has given authority in certain things to believers, that is, it is true as a statement in the Bible(Luke 10:19) it needs to be a personal reality for each individual and not by defacto(Acts 19:13-15), as much as it was to them whom Christ had first given it when it was written(Luke 24:49)

This is to say nothing of how authority is to be rightly handled and of the godly example that Christ sets forth of weilding authority by being under it and having power by being under God's control(John 5:30, 11:5-6,41-42).

"When Jesus spoke
the Word; people were delivered, healed,
and saved !!"

Because God was always with Him, and with power.

I would agree also with gigles that Proverbs 18:21 is likely a verse that would be used to support these teachings.

I beleive it would be wrongly applied that way primarily for this:

The passage is not meant to suggest to our imaginations that we have in ourselves or in our words any power.

Taken within the whole context of the book of Proverbs, the power lies with God, Who hears what we say and holds us accountable.

THANKS SO MUCH for all of your input. I knew that there has to be something from God's actual Word that they twisted around to "support" their practices. I have known for many years that God's Word doesn't support them.

Please pray for us that we will be able to lead Hispanics here out of such deception into the TRUE cross-carrying victorious-over-sin LIFE that God has for them.

Such deceptions have a way of numbing sincere people to the REAL issues that God wants them to focus on, and putting their focus on earthly temporary issues. God (to them) becomes a source of health, happiness & prosperity instead of the fountain of living water that springs up into eternal life. Self denial & giving up all in order to have this eternal treasure becomes strange thing instead of normal Christian devotion.

It saddens me that such deceptions originated in my country - the dear old USA, yet they are contaminating nearly every nation & language group on the planet.

There is a genuine truth in declaring the word of the Lord by faith. When I "confess" what God says about a situation in the face of what my five senses are telling me, I build my own faith and I agree verbally with what God has said about the situation. There is also a genuine truth that we may speak the word of God in authority and affect change in a situation such as in healing the sick.

There is a segment of the body who have taken this truth to the exclusion of other truths and have gone into error. It is this group that have earned names such as blab it and grab it.

There must be a proper balance. It is vitally important that we speak the word of God in faith. It is important that we declare with our mouths the things that God has promised us. But it is also important that we don't see a genuine faith principle to be just another way to obtain that for which we lust.

Mark 11:23-24, the punch line so to speak of the incident of Jesus cursing the fig tree is one scripture. I live this scripture, often declaring things verbally in prayer. It is a powerful truth, but it does not, cannot, will not override the truth that we have not because we ask amiss that we may consume it upon our own lusts. Our declaration must be in agreement with the will of God or our words are vain declaration. But oh the power and effectivness when we agree with God and declare His words over the situation.

Travis.

Here is an expert on the subject.

[url=http://www.justinpeters.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=3&Itemid=14]Justin Peters[/url]

In LA? what city are you in? I know of a good strong (small) church in Baton Rouge. They are dedicated and love Jesus.

"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:9,10).

"Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession." (Hebrews 4:14).

We should be filling our hearts with the Word of God and speaking it out of our mouths. The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit, and we should be saying and confessing what God says in His Word.

"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith." (Mark 11:23).

Just because some men have perverted the truth of positive confession and have used it in an unscriptural fashion does not diminish the power of the word of God that is spoken in the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

God's Words are Spirit and life, and it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.

Mike

"Positive Confession", as it has been labeled, is nothing more than choosing to believe and agee with God's Word rather than circumstances or situations that indicate that God's Word is not true.

As an example.....

If I were to get up tomorrow morning and "feel" as if I were no longer saved would that mean I had lost my salvation? Of course not! I am born again because I repented of my sins, believed the Gospel, and fully embraced Jesus Christ and His precious blood as the only means of my salvation and justification. That is the truth no matter what my feelings say.

If I then begin to quote and take comfort in God's Word and promises that show me to be in right relationship with him, regardless of what devils, inlaws, or my fickle feelings say, THAT IS POSITIVE CONFESSION. It is when I confess God's word to be true no matter the circumstance, how I feel, or what my eyes see. God's eternal truth will be proven true when the dust is settled. To receive that promise, or truth, that God has made simply requires us to actually believe it and hold fast to it. Again, just like at salvation it is believing God's Word to be true by faith.

That is all that positive confession is. Undoubtedly some people have taken it to extremes at times. I admire their zeal and commitment but encourage them to be more accurate discerners of God's Word. On the other hand I have found it just as likely that the person up in arms over a so called, "error of positive confession", simply does not have the faith or nerve to actually take God at His Word, stand on it in faith, and be willing to confess it as true even when life circumstances say it won't be. I encourage folks to be cautious that you are not found guilty of speaking badly of those whom God may view as exercising great faith in Him and His Word.

In addition to obtaining two Bachelors degrees I also attended and graduated from Ken Hagin's Rhema Bible Training Center. How I described positive confession is EXACTLY how Hagin taught it....in a concise nutshell it is this......

We can confess to be true and receive by faith anything that God has specifically promised us in His Word. If He has not promised it in His Word we can not recieve it by faith for faith only comes by hearing the Word. Therefore we CAN NOT have faith for anything that is not promised in His Word.. but we can have faith in, confess as true, and recieve anything He DID specifically promise in His Word.

That is the lock, stock, and barrel of the teaching on "Positive Confession" as taught by Kenneth Hagin to the students at RBTC. I fail to see fault in that... of course there may be any number of people you meet that teach in error on this point. However, it is also regrettable that many Christians now live well below God's desire in many areas of their life because they have wrongly understood the term "Positive Confession".

It really does just mean that we agree with God and His Word.