further evidence we are in the new dark ages

sermonindex Mar 4, 2010

i just got this email, i'll let it speak for itself. (I will blank out the contact info)

March 2010

Church Security Training Seminar - Each Participant Receives a Free Workplace Violence Prevention Video Program - 695.00 value
The Center for Personal Protection and Safety will be conducting a one day Church Security Training Seminar on April 13, 2010 at V######## Fellowship, 2#### N. A###### Rd., ########, W######### from 9:00 - 4:00.

Topics covered include:
-Seminar geared to a train-the -trainer environment
-Shots Fired: Guidance to Surviving an Active Shooter Incident
-Pros & cons of outsourced security guards supporting ministry organizations
-Keys to creating a healthy and safe workplace environment within your Church or Ministry
-Keys to recognizing signs of a potential crisis before it occurs
-Strategies for handling a difficult person in a public environment
-How to develop a Crisis Management Plan for your Church or Ministry
-How to set up a Church Security Team in your House of Worship
-How to train church leaders and congregation members to travel safely
-Interactive Session Lets talk about your specific issues

Tuition: 149.00 (Note: All attendees will receive a copy of the video training program, Flash Point: Recognizing and Preventing Violence in the Workplace - 695.00 value. Limit 1 per church)

To register for this seminar or to find future dates and locations, contact ##### ######### at ###-###-#### or via email at #####@###.com

"As Executive Pastor of a mega-church with multiple site venues, I am keenly aware of the risk of harm or incident among our people each week. I have now (twice!) attended the Ministry Security Course sponsored by The Center for Personal Protection & Safety and say confidently that this course is the best, most comprehensive campus safety course out there, period. There is no "fluff" to this presentation - just straight talk and very practical advice on running a safe and secure church. I enthusiastically recommend this course to any organization of any size."

Executive Pastor, General Counsel
Church

For those unable to attend but would like to view the video training program - Shots Fired: Guidance to Surviving an Active Shooter Situation, please go to:

H

hoohoou Mar 4, 2010

Yeah, my church also sponsors concealed handgun courses. I didn't really see an issue with it until the last few months. Full disclosure, I took the course, but don't intend on carrying now. It just seems the polar opposite of what we as a Church are trying to accomplish. Where's the trust in God. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Someone famous once said that...

D

DBen Mar 5, 2010

Wow, I can see the "your tithes at work" signs popping up all around the mega-churches for the new security systems they are going to put in. Metal detectors at the door, guys with black suits and scanning devices and security cameras in all rooms.

Agreed hoohoou something is wrong with that. There is another saying that I hear, something like perfect love casting out all fear. Or was it "he that fears has not been made perfect in love" or maybe both. :)

In all seriousness the whole thing makes me sad, the need for it, the fact that children of the most high God are being drawn into that line of thinking, that our trust in the Lord has waned so far as to go here. As one brother wrote in a song - http://www.godlychristianmusic.com/music/stat.aspx?id=20&dl=listen&type=song.mp3

Save us Lord in these last days
from empty words and mens blind praise
we're falling down in fear and faith
to live your words

G

ginnyrose Mar 5, 2010

I agree this is the most absurd ....

However, is it consistent to be shocked at this when Christians will carry handguns or buy other guns for 'self-protection?' If you stand back and look at this from the long view, is it not only an extension of the philosophy of self-protection using carnal weapons that is acceptabe for modern Christians?

My thoughts...
ginnyrose

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Mar 5, 2010

I remember attending a church that slowly morphed from a congregation that stressed prayer, Bible study, and "seriousness" with God...into a modern congregation where the leadership longed to achieve "megachurch" status.

Instead of having any more Bible studies, prayer meetings and evangelical outings -- the church created "leadership" classes that taught "~~[i]~~investment planning[/i]," "~~[i]~~how to catch people who are 'slain in the spirit[/i],'" "~~[i]~~how to encourage greater giving[/i]" and even taught "acting classes" for the various major church productions. I remember one day that the pastor asked my opinion about whether or not the church should cancel Sunday School classes altogether...since he said that he wasn't sure that he could justify the use of the air conditioning for such small groups.

I'm not sure what to think of churches that seem to lose focus like this. Of course, I have no problem with men who would use physical means to defend innocent women, children and the elderly from unlawful violence (or, at least, calling the authorities to curtail such violence). However, I certainly wouldn't teach a church class about such things.

I agree that the church needs to get back to the simplicity of Christ. Wouldn't it be great to attend a class where people simply read the Word of God together...and discussed what they were reading. In addition to that congregation that taught those weird "leadership" classes, I have been to even more churches that taught specific binding doctrines that were prerequisites to local church fellowship or involvement. These did not include the universal doctrines of the faith which are common to all true believers. In fact, these classes left no room for Spirit-led (rather than man-enforced) instruction at all. You were taught what the congregation (or teacher) said was "truth" -- why they believed it was "truth" -- and that was that.

Again, I would love to attend a congregation that just reads the Word of God and encourages one another in the simplicity of the Good News of Jesus Christ! While in grad school, I was able to attend a very small congregation that was like that. We literally read through the Bible as we shared with one another. Yes, we had worship...but the congregation seemed more concerned with being honest with our worship than how our singing or music sounded on a "professional" level. It was simple...and reminded me of how the believers in the indigenous Tarahumara tribes of the Sierra Madre Occidental in Mexico met as a Church beneath a tree. There were no musical instruments, no electricity, no pews, no "four spiritual laws," no hymnals or overhead projectors, no Sunday bulletins, and no specific written lists of doctrinal requirements to determine local church membership.

Sometimes, I really wish myself among them...that I could live there and fellowship with those believers on a daily basis.

To know Him...is all that really matters.

Philippians 3

T

twayneb Mar 5, 2010

Chris:

I believe we need to use every possible means to do the work that God has called us to do. If that means a big building, then so be it.

But I totally agree with what you have just said. I think you have captured the feeling that is in the heart of many people. The focus of so many people and churches has become (You fill in the blank) instead of Christ.

Travis

J

jimp Mar 5, 2010

hi,millions are coming to Jesus around the earth with hundreds of new churches being planted...people going to the streets in our cities and leading hundreds of people to Jesus every week...become a part of it and quit crying the blues about what you are not doing..jimp

G

ginnyrose Mar 5, 2010

Wouldn't it be great to attend a class where people simply read the Word of God together...and discussed what they were reading.

I agree.

So many times the LORD has spoken to me while the leader was reading the scripture and he was not giving an commentary on the scripture being read.

IN just hearing the scripture being read out loud one gains other insights. I remember hearing a minister reading some obscure OT chapter. I was amazed at the beauty of the language, the concepts, the heart of God being exposed. As a result of this, I turned to these OT prophets and read them studiously. The theology taught there is pure, untainted by false doctrine, or emotion of men bent on greed...it is so holy...

ginnyrose

sermonindex Mar 5, 2010

[ after reading all comments..]

It just shows the error of the mega-church. The church was never meant to be JUST* a corporate meeting....but primarily a loving community where the weak and poor were loved as much as the strong and rich.

Unending prosperity births apostasy. After a while, the monolith secretes the odor of self preservation, rather than it's holy mission to lay it's life down for the good of the lost and oppressed. Jesus,of course, is lost in all of this activity designed to create social enhancement,especially when there is a pulpit call to get out the guns...

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
"I remember attending a church that slowly morphed from a congregation that stressed prayer, Bible study, and "seriousness" with God...into a modern congregation where the leadership longed to achieve "megachurch" status....as described by CCCHHHRRRIIISSS below..

...."Instead of having any more Bible studies, prayer meetings and evangelical outings -- the church created "leadership" classes that taught "investment planning," "how to catch people who are 'slain in the spirit,'" "how to encourage greater giving" and even taught "acting classes" for the various major church productions."

" I remember one day that the pastor asked my opinion about whether or not the church should cancel Sunday School classes altogether...since he said that he wasn't sure that he could justify the use of the air conditioning for such small groups."

Love and mercy is then substituted by "BLESSING", which is nothing more than thinly veiled self indulgence; Happiness, Health, and Prosperity...The love of the world, in reality, and the love of our own lives.

John 12

24."Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.

25."He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.

26"If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him."

The credentials for God' success for us in this life opposite this kind of thinking, and doctrine.It is not about our success, happiness, nor certainly our self preservation...but the losing of our lives, that another would take it; possess it.

Matthew 10

36.....and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

37" He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

38."And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

39."He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it. [ Jesus of Nazareth.. ]

We have been deceived by Satan that he gospel is really not about dying to our natures... to be conformed to His death...that we may walk in the Spirit to attain the resurrection...and our worldly loves...even putting family above Him.

NO!...IT"s all about ME!, and corporately US. This is a profound lie, and will lead you to the lake of fire, for in the end, you may hear; "I never KNEW you, you worker of iniquity!..Depart from me!"

Love Jesus and Fear Jesus, and let no man separate you from the simplicity that is in Christ.

* The early church is documented to have met at Solomon's portico...corporately....probably 10-20 thousand or so. They evidently met house to house, and then gathered together , probably to worship together, and hear the apostles and various testimonies, and "the state of the church". They then went about their business, and local gatherings.

Jesus had already addressed the issue of armed guards to Peter ...after he removed Malchus' ear with the sword on the night of Gethsemane.

Matthew 26
51.And behold, one of those who were with Jesus reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear.

52. Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.

53"Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"

So, where does it end? In the heat of the Tribulation perhaps we'll have machine gun turrets and cannon....

F

fieldlaborer Mar 5, 2010

hi,millions are coming to Jesus around the earth with hundreds of new churches being planted...people going to the streets in our cities and leading hundreds of people to Jesus every week...become a part of it and quit crying the blues about what you are not doing..jimp

I am thankful for every new believer in Christ. There is a lot of good being done by churches all over the world. However, just because there are some that are concerned about what is happening in many churches is no reason to bash them jimp.

Do you know what the backsliding rate for new converts is? Somewhere in the 80-90% range. That should alarm every follower of Christ that there is something wrong. Just because we can boast of huge new buildings and thousands in attendance is not evidence that they are right.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice it says many, that scares me that there are many who believe they are in the faith, but they are not. Many who believe that their works are evidence of their salvation. What a sad thing to stand before God one day and say 'Lord what about the new church I built, what about all the people that repeated a prayer after me?' Only to here Christ respond depart from me you worker of iniquity. So jimp when there are those of us that are concerned with what many churches are falling into it is not because we are jealous, or because we are not doing anything ourselves, but it is because we do not want to see anyone go to hell. We especially do not want anyone to stand before God with a false sense of hope, thinking they are saved by their works, and never truly submitting their life to the will of God.

Here is a link to a sermon by Ray Comfort that deals with this.

~~[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=434]~~Hells Best Kept Secret[/url]

God Bless