I was wrong

As I look back at the last year and my introduction to sermonindex and it's forums I am grieved at how defensive I was earlier on of some sincerely held beliefs that I felt were beyond question. Since that time I have come to a greater understanding of the issues and feel more open to other viewpoints that could be more accurate. Bro. Ron Bailey (philologos) was the primary fielder of my 'guns blazing' approach and arrival. We debated various topics that are very passionate in their nature and I must admit I was WRONG in my perception of this dear brother and bible scholar. My zeal for my beliefs (I believed with all sincerity was right) was sincere, but misdirected. It even lacked charity, and sincerity without charity is SIN. Listening to his messages and reading his writings has become a wealth of help for me. My past comments were quite public and pointed; so too must now be my admission. If nothing else I am learning to be swift to hear and 'slower' to speak. Maybe someone will read this and back off from the temptation to post now and ask questions later like I have done. God Bless,

try hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge,I am an acquired taste! ;-) and some will never acquire it or wish to. ;-) I think we can learn much more together than separately, and ...in the light of your sign-off I never regarded you as owing me a single penny! Much love to you.

Much love to you.These words bring tears to my eyes. What can I say? The feelings of love and appreciation for God and his people leaps within my heart. I have met some great friends here. What a joy to meet Bro Greg and Josh (oarsman). I hope to meet all of you in time. God speed always brother Ron.

Wow! Thank you so much for posting this. I do not know you Robert or your discussions with Ron B. Psalms 51:17 A Broken and a contrite heart- These, O God, You will not despise. I believe that it delightes the very heart of God. God has been teaching me of my lack of love for others, and how I put stumbling blocks out to those weak in faith. He is teaching me tremendously! I have been seeking Holiness, but Holiness is to be separate from sin and one with God. Love is the fulfillment of the law. So I have come to know that if I am not walking in love then I am not walking in Holiness.Your post reminds me of a discussion two men at my church had a month ago. Two men totally in love with God discussing doctrine, but stumbling at the place where they were not loving each other wholeheartedly. Saturday after prayer I made a comment about it with my friend.1Cor 8:1 Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.To discuss a doctrine without walking in the doctrine of love is foolishness.I thank you again for posting this. It is encouraging to me.All of the members here at SI are very dear to my heart

If nothing else I am learning to be swift to hear and 'slower' to speak. Maybe someone will read this and back off from the temptation to post now and ask questions later like I have done. I am learning this as well, to hold my tongue. This forum is a good place to practice that. I feel your brokeness as well, after a weekend of focusing too much on knowledge, and then having a good discussion with 2 pastors this morning before our staff prayer about debatable doctrines and division in the body of Christ. I need to start thinking more than I act, and then act only when I love.God will help us. He will be faithful to complete the work He started. Like Greg encouraged under a similar topic, it's not an overnight process. These things all take time.

Bro. Ron you wrote;Quote;"I am an acquired taste! and some will never acquire it or wish to".Truer words were never spoken about you ... and me ... i know folk who literally gag when they see me ... '0)i may not agree with a lot of the things you post, but as my brother in Christ i do love you, and i must admit that i've learned some doctrines from you that i never even knew existed before ... So i also agree with your statement ...Quote;"I think we can learn much more together than separately" ...That i have ... So much love to you brother Ron, and to all you joint heirs in Christ on SI ...i'm looking forward to spending eternity with you all!Bro R

It is certainly good to admit that you were wrong but I also think these forums are where we are to voice our opinions, then listen, learn, then make our choice whether we apply it to our lives or not.

Hey you guys! This thread is great. God is also dealing with me about really loving others with his love. He did say, after all, that this would be our mark of identification. I was writing to a friend today and had, sort of, a revelation. What is the opposite of evil? Love. If we love according to ICor. 13, we will do only good. God bless all of you. I'm with you, Geraldine. This fellowship has filled a void in my daily life. Love you all! Dian.

This is one that gives you goosebumps.Robert, what a true blessing you are as are all that frequent here. This morning on the way to work to be honest I was in one of those difficult spiritual...connundrums?Rom 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we should. But the Spirit himself intercedes with groans too deep for words, Rom 8:27 and the one who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, for the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to God's will.Your names all coming to mind...I don't know what we would do without that scripture sometimes.At the sake of being redundant, there was a time early on here where I was soundly rebuked by Greg and yes it was a case of 'post first shoot later' or, ah, nevermind. I had it coming and it was the first of many lessons learned. That one always comes back because it was a true kindness expressed and the starkness of my flippancy made it obvious that I was wrong and thus easier to admit, though a bit embarrassing.I have learned so much through all of you in some form or fashion, so many faucets to this diamond!And it has without a doubt changed me, many times over. Also spend probably way too much time here, rambling on and on...but I gave up a long time ago trying to curtail it. ;-)

Man, there's a whole lota love in this thread:-D. I've gotta say, that since coming in contact with SI, God has grown my life in so many ways. Brother Robert, you were the reason for some of my first posts, early in the study of Finney's Lectures. The first posts of yours I read, were those calling 'the church' to repentance (a message very close to my heart also), with such fire, and ferosity. Then all of a sudden, came these posts, in regard to the third lecture:RobertW quote:When I began work on this lecture I was not prepared for the effect that it has had on me. It was an unexpected effect I suppose. I have sat down and allowed God to deal with me to begin to break up the fallow ground of my heart. The result has been unexpected. I see things a lot different now. I see how short I have actually come in serving God......Friends I have every intention to preach repentance with great boldness and revere of God in the up and coming months and years. The difference, will be the spirit with which I do it. God has for now strait shut me down! And that, until I get the right spirit about me to be able to preach such a message. I would tremble and fear now after that lecture to get up and light the place up with a repentance message and have even the faintest sin in my own heart. Or if the fruit of the Spirit is not there, we need not look for the anointing. I actually believe it could be fatal for me. Thats how that lecture effected me. Its as if I hear God saying... Come up to spank my kids with sin in your own life son? Spank my kids in my house? I rebuke and chasten... not you. You say what I say- say and NOTHING else! I fear the Lord now in a profound way friends. I pray to God- He has mercy on me for the spirit of the words of my mouth. God have mercy on me- for I wist not what spirit I was of. -emphasis mineTell me Rob, was this your "own personal calvary", as Kieth Daniel puts it? As a longtime member of a church, which many here would label, "Word of Faith", this was refreshing. People who are actually willing to be publically spanked by God, in a world where so many christians are merely broods of vipers seeking to flee the wrath to come (otherwise known as "hell dodgers"), are few and far between.I have personally been extremely blessed by the words of "Christ in Robert Wurtz form", several times (as with Ron, Greg, ... and even you too Mike:-P...not to leave anyone else out, and there are so many). We are all fellow pilgrims in Christ, and it's in threads like these, that this fact truely manifests itself.Anyway, I just wanted to give you some public props Rob. I know that you can be trusted to direct it in the right direction.

Tell me Rob, was this your "own personal calvary", as Kieth Daniel puts it? As a longtime member of a church, which many here would label, "Word of Faith", this was refreshing. People who are actually willing to be publically spanked by GodHi Brother,When I came to sermonindex I was "way on fire" for God with an urgency to see repentance like never before. That urgency was from God and so was the message. As Finney would put it, "It was as though I had opened up a battery" everywhere I would speak. But then I noticed something. I noticed that men had been where I was before. I looked at the finality of their message. And a message that never made it to sermonindex I ministered in which I asked the question, "Could God TRUST us with a revival?" What would we do once everyone had repented, would we keep preaching and splitting hairs? Would we become that extreme version of Oberlin theology that nearly killed my family? For those unfamiliar, it is a theology of constant fear that I believe contributed to an elderly woman in a nursing home we knew named Rosie that had served God her whole life as a 'holiness' Christian (long sleeves, long dress, and hair in a bun) literally loose her mind. She often wondered if she was saved and would ask questions to that effect. The last time I saw her she was in a cage. I have died many deaths since I came to sermonindex. I have come back to the love I had at first for Christ several times because the heart strays so easily. I have learned I am very weak. I don't always have it all together. I am vulnerable. And when I come to that place of death again every day of my life I rest in Christ and His power rests on me and I walk in victory. I have to walk in humility or I will fall in sin. I have to keep reconciling with my brothers and sisters. I have to walk in brokeness in a real way. And in this condition God can use us to THUNDER to word of REPENTANCE from a heart of love... from the heart of God. The WRATH of man worketh not the righteousness of God and we must know what is God and what is us. Thanks for the encouragment. Sermonindex and the friends I have met here are a fellowship more real than any I have had. God Bless,

I echo the same thoughts posted here. I am among the silent ones in this forum but I think it is common knowledge that many more follow the topics discussed here. Many times I cringe to read "posters" seemingly intent on proving their thoughts right without listening and answering the questions and rebuttals presented. There seems to be selected hearing in some cases. Questions answerable by a simple yes or no get a run around. But you know what, I am convicted of the same attitude in my heart. I thank God for the honesty and sincerity of the brethren here. I appreciate the patience, love and wisdom of others at the receiving end of some seemingly misdirected zealousness. Reminds me of how the Lord has been patient with me all through these years. More than all these, in SI, I am amazed at how God speaks and brings wonderful things to light that time and time again my only response is to worship Him. He is awesome. He alone is worthy!

Amen Brother Rey. We have to leave it all on the altar. One of the things that the Lord is working in my heart is that I can no longer defend myself. I must also confess, repent and seek reconciliation when I am wrong but I can no longer defend myself.The last disciple who did this was Peter, right before he died Christ three times. Defend God yes, defend the flesh never.Praise be to God for your heart Robert. I'm reminded by the Sermon on the Mount "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God." May God's presence flood in your life.Ed