So I just thought I would ask your thoughts on the Sinner's Prayer if you think its an effective tool for leading someone to the Lord. and if you disagree how do you lead someone to the Lord without it? I am only asking because I have only been taught the Sinner's prayer way and have new convictions about it. Any input would be grateful.
God Bless,
Matthew
Here is a selection from the [url=http://worldcouncilofcults.org/]Jesusist Manifesto
Evangelicals make the New Birth a central point of doctrine, but their entire system of evangelism and indoctrination is specifically calculated to prevent it from happening. They abstract the New Birth into a metaphysical fiction imparted to anyone who recites the Sinner's Prayer. Sinners are led to believe that if they "make a decision" to recite the Sinner's Prayer, they will be Born Again and Jesus will come into their hearts. So they recite the Sinner's Prayer, and nothing happens. They return from the altar looking like they have just been to the dentist. They are told that it does not matter if they feel any different; they are born again, because they recited the Sinner's Prayer. But they know that, in truth, they are unchanged, and they wander away disappointed, saying, "I tried Christianity, it didn't work for me." Or they remain in the church as "altar tramps," going forward and getting "saved" again and again and again...
The Billy Graham Association did a follow-up survey of 1000 of Dr. Graham's mass evangelism "converts," and found that after one year, just one percent were active in the church and "showing signs of regeneration." Dr. Graham sought to remedy this with a follow-up program which planted new converts in "sound Bible churches" with mentors and new believer classes. Another follow-up survey found that this discipleship program had no effect at all - still just one percent after one year. Countless other studies of evangelistic programs based on "decisional salvation" have found similarly dismal results. Why do evangelicals knowingly persist in a failed methodology? Because from the Spirit of Antichrist's point of view, it is not a failed methodology at all; it is a very successful methodology, in terms of debasing Christianity and sending seekers away empty-handed.
We learn from the parable of the sower that there is an interval between the planting and the harvest, and that the growth of the Word of God in the heart can be cut short before blossoming into saving faith. (Mark 4:3-20) Evangelicals have ruined the souls of millions by harvesting them prematurely.
There is a pre-natal phase to the New Birth. The Sinner's Prayer conversion ritual is no less insane than an obstetrician who immediately induces labor in every woman who walks into his office, regardless of the stage of pregnancy, and delivers ninety-nine percent stillborn babies.
The evangelical church is a spiritual abortion mill which industrially processes the Word of Life before it can mature unto salvation. Those who receive the Word of God with gladness (Mark 4:16) are mown down in mid-summer, harvested, mulched and used as fodder for the Evangelistic Money-Making Machine. Many who have been thus "harvested" will never again receive the Word. They have become "hardened soil." They have been rendered reprobate from Jesus Christ by the industry that claims to be the Church of Jesus Christ.
Greetings Matthew
I know Paul Washer speak to this topic in some of his teachings. Personally I have several family member who will tell you they are saved because they repeated a prayer. There is no change in their hearts, life, attitude or actions. They still continue on in sin believing a lie that since they said a prayer and God is all about love and forgiveness they are going to heaven. They are not born again and they have no relationship with Christ Jesus. They have no understanding of their sinful state or that they need a savior. Sadly the only fruit I have seen in their lives is a false guarantee they hold onto that all is well when in fact it is not.
God bless
maryjane
Thanks so much for the input, these are very similar convictions I have recieved, I feel as if the Sinner's Prayer does more harm than good and shouldn't be used. I will admit that I have used the Sinner's Prayer in my past out of ignorance now I really want to help people find salvation through the New Birth but am still not sure how to do that since the Sinner's Prayer is all I know. How then do you lead someone to the Lord and into the New Birth. I now teach my youth group that its all about having a Loviny relationship with Christ Jesus, and a prayer by No means will save you.
(1% that are active in the Church is a Joke and utterly inexcusable I am thankful for your statistic they opened me up to how bad it really is)
God Bless,
Mattew
LoinGirder:
The preceding paragraphs are the most serious I've ever seen from the likes of you ;)
I agree with loingirder here bigtime. The sinners prayer is found nowhere in the Bible ever. I do however believe that God does use it in spite of it, just like Paul Washer believes. I believe that the thing we have to get right first as a church is the spirit filled casting of the seed. I think Mathew, that a good place to start is to learn to evangelize in such a fashion that men thirst for what you have. Simply do not emphasize dragging a commitment out of anyone. Commit to planting and casting the seed, just as Jesus told you to do in the parable of the sower. I am willing to bet that if you are especially gifted as an evangelist, and you do not weary in well doing, and you truly love the people you are sharing the faith with, in the power of the Holy Spirit, demonstrating the power of God through your preaching...in due time you might just find someone say, "Mathew...what must I do to be saved?" Then just respond as simply as Paul did, but with all the confidence of heaven and its angels behind you, you can say..."believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."
Emphasize the gospel, and believe what you are preaching powerfully, passionately, direly. Then cast that seed with all the strength your arm can muster. Christ...Christ...CHRIST alone will give the increase. He is the harvester of souls NOT US!!!
Thank you brother these were encouraging words, Lately I have been preaching living a life to bring Glory to Christ even if you go to hell at the end because Christ is worthy. This in a nutshell is how I have been preaching and presenting Christ, I say to the Youth group I pastor, If I believe the boogey man lives under my bed I will act accordingly ie have my wife look under the bed to make sure he isnt under there and be fearful. This is similar to believing in Christ if you really believe You will act according to the belief with Obedience and Repentance. If I truly believe Christ is the Son of God, My Saviour, My Lord, and My Judge I will work out my salvation with fear and trembling.
i recommend this, here are some very good things [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4335]helps in sould winning by Gerard du toit
Thanks I will listen to it when I have some extra time, when I was recently exposed to the full gospel I was torn between to worlds of saying the Sinner's Prayer or Not saying it then looking at the facts saw that the Sinner's Prayer was quite ineffective, Now I am kind of lost as to how to minister and lead someone to the Lord but finding that God has sucessfully lead me to lead people so that is far better than a formula.
loingirder wrote:
The evangelical church is a spiritual abortion mill which industrially processes the Word of Life before it can mature unto salvation.
Thanks I will listen to it when I have some extra time, when I was recently exposed to the full gospel I was torn between to worlds of saying the Sinner's Prayer or Not saying it then looking at the facts saw that the Sinner's Prayer was quite ineffective,
well todays version of the sinners prayer may be for most ineffective, i would agree, even tho i myself came to meet the lord by a "sinners prayer", but todays version is squeezed in after a one hour service, and most often no mention of the cross, denying self, repentance, counting the cost etc, just the positive sides.
Charles Finney that some say ws the "originator" of the sinners prayer or altar calls to accept christ, dont know if he was or not, but he did them, but usually he would have spent three weeks of preaching on Gods wrath, the law, repentance before giving an invitation, if i remember right someone asked him when he knew the time was right to give an invitation, and he said when no one in the audience could any longer look him straight in the eyes....
He would preach until every single one where convinced of their sins and crimes against a Holy God before he would invite anyone to receive Christ.
This we dont see anymore.... so back then it may have been effective, but what we also make a mistake in, is we copy anointed mens methods, nd think we will get same results... Finney used this method and with Gods anointing he got fruits, Spurgeon never gave a single invitation and he still got results, but he also was anointed by God. So if we have this anointing, God will lead us to different ways of drawing men to the Lord... but this is the KEY , not any specific method or three step way etc.
Just my thoughts on this, if someone comes to us and seem genuinely broken and hating their sins and life and would do anything to be forgiven and come to know the Lord, a sinners prayer may be the thing that is right just then, for someone else we might need sit down and show them what it meens to come to Christ, show them the seriousness of sin and their crimes etc, make them understand what it meens instead of jumping the gun and proclaim them saved after a one minute prayer.
So Charles Finney is the originater of the Sinner's Prayer? Do you know of any statistics as far as the effectiveness of when he used it? And reading what you posted it seems that he of anyone else did it the correct manor if the sinner's prayer is to be used. A man must know the enormity of his sin before he can truly be grateful for what Christ had done on the cross. until then the lost have no clue they are lost and the Sinner has no clue who they are sinning against and the deeper consequences until one comes to this conclusion, they will find the need for repenting just plain pointless.
well some report there where several hundred thousands saved during Finneys time, and the third great awekening. J edwin Orr speaks of some of that here [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=150&commentView=itemComments]J edwin Orr sermon
From what I've always understood, Finney was the originator of the altar call, not the sinner's prayer. But i could be wrong. I would have to agree with those who believe the sinner's prayer does more harm than good. And even though the Lord might graciously and mercifully use it from time to time to convert someone, I believe we should not use it at all, due to the horrible results and massive deception that has been associated with it. I think it is a golden calf that many in the Church refuse to forsake. There is absolutely no need for it, it is unbiblical. We just need to preach the Gospel(repentance and faith in Christ), urging sinners to obey the gospel, and leave the results with God. I agree with Hmmmmm that we need the anointing of the Holy Spirit to be effective, not a certain method.
by mguldner on 2010/3/9 13:12:48So Charles Finney is the originater of the Sinner's Prayer? Do you know of any statistics as far as the effectiveness of when he used it?
Highly recommend this video:[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oi5PR96Efs]The Graham Formula
While the modern altar call can be attributed to Finney, the actual process of a "Sinners Prayer" and "Decisional Regeneration" could probably be attributed to Billy Sunday.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with the idea of ending any form of fellowship meeting with a call to respond and receive counsel/ministry; but given how it is done most of the time, it has become nothing more than a ministry.
The Graham Formula is a great video.
Also, Ian Murray has a book on "The Invitational System".
Also, I would highly recommend the sermons of Paul Washer. He speaks a lot on the topic of decisionism and regeneration.
Something that bugs me is the quickness of how fast preachers call people to the alters but rush them out 5 to 15 minutes later. If I am needing spiritual counsel beyond this I am in trouble because the Alter time is over. But preachers try and rush people in to the alters, have them say a prayer to ease their troubled souls and then rush them out because its lunch time and we need to beat the other churches to the good resturants. I know that this isn't the case for all places but please prayer for my church because this seems to be a trend. I hope to change this in the future next time I preach.
God Bless,
Matthew
This discussion is locked.
