Days of Lot

[url=http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100413/jennifer-knapp-returns-to-christian-music-scene-confirms-her-sexuality/]Jennifer Knapp Returns to Christian Music Scene, Confirms Sexuality[/url]

Luke 17:28

Well, For one, I would say don't buy the album! Second, I see this as a test. How the Christian community and Christian music industry responds is going to reveal what is in their hearts. I would never post something like this if she had not come out public with her own statements. She is testing the Christian world, saying..."This is the way I am. What are you going to do about it?" She sang at my old church a couple times when I was younger...so to a degree it is somewhat personal, though I would never condemn anyone, I would say, "Go and sin no more." Are we going to allow this little bit of leaven?

It is like the days of Hosea...we reach to grasp the hand of God...with the dumb idols of wickedness still firmly in our opposing grip.

I also posted this for the sake of those who might purchase the album in ignorance. Might save you fourteen bucks.

Daniel chapter nine is what we do codek...we pray prayers of repentance for our wayward people, even if we are not involved with it ourselves. Daniel received vision from God when he repented on behalf of his own people, though his own sin was never mentioned.

Fact is, things like this just don't surprise anymore.

Now, it's just a matter of whose next.

We simply affirm what the scriptures say, this is an abomination to God and as already quoted, we don't by the albumn. We are under obligation, by the Spirit to declare the truth, even if we lose our heads for it.

It is the same all over the church. Compromise with sin is eating us up. It is time for the bride to make herself ready, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.

edit:

I would like to say one more thing, we need to deceide whether we are listening to "christian music" for entertainment purposes or for worship purposes. There are some chistian ministers out there who minister in music, like Aberto & Kim Rivera
[url=http://www.cupbearer.com/html/riveras.htm]Alberto & Kim Rivera[/url]These folks are not intertainers, but worshippers.

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

It should be very frightening to those who condone such behavior and don't speak out against it. This is what pleasure is in the Strongs:

1) it seems good to one, is one's good pleasure

a) think it good, choose, determine, decide

b) to do willingly

c) to be ready to, to prefer, choose rather

2) to be well pleased with, take pleasure in, to be favourably inclined towards one

We are certainly in the days of apostacy and we need to make sure we are walking in Revelation 3:18

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Also BrotherTom I do believe it is exponentially increasing. And think of this, these are the very things that the righteous will stand against and get killed in the not too distant future. The stage is being set. Will we come out purified or damned.

Does any one else get the feeling that there has been an exponential effect; like a snow ball racing down the hill, faster and larger every second?

Most certainly...what has been nagging at the back of my mind for some time now...is why? Why the compulsion to attach oneself to Christianity philosophically, and completely deny that attachment through ones actions. That is what is the vehemently consistent theme I see in so many. Why not just deny the faith?

The quick answer would be to say that everyone wants to go to heaven but does not want to give up sin...that may be consistently true, but I have a hunch it is going deeper than that. It seems to be a move to actually spiritualize and turn sin into a virtue. It is paganism via the word of God...truly the scriptures are being wrested to destruction.

I happen to know personally that this is more than just a battle of flesh...it is the Spirit of the age. We are not warring against flesh and blood here, and the only way this battle can be won is in the Spirit. When I was first married, and had been a "christian" for about 4-5 years, I listened to a lot of bad music. Specifically I listened to U2 an enormous amount. I remember that my wife and I got into a big argument over Bono's lyrics and she told me that his stuff was straight from the pit of hell. I remember arguing against her logic that he was just being "honest" about who he was, which was better than most Christians I had met. I had bought the lie, hook, line and sinker. I was a partaker of this devilish Spirit which is consuming so many people...the strange thing was that I did not really learn that idea from anyone. I was just naturally doing what so many others were, turning that which is evil...into that which is good. Unless we are apprehended by, and apprehend the Spirit of God through the blood of Christ we too would be swept away with the tide of filth and debauchery in the world today. Christians whom hold to a literal interpretation of scripture are becoming a hiss and a byword more and more. We better not be deceived by those peddling anything other than the absolute truth of God's word revealed in the son, and preached by the Apostles.

The path down this slick muddy moral slide starts very very subtly. Watch out eye-gate, ear-gate, sense-gate...what we consume may be the fruit of righteousness turned into hemlock. And judgment turned into gall. Amos 6:12. We must prophesy against the spirit of Amaziah...which is alive and well today.

I was at one of Jennifer's first ever concerts in the municipal auditorium in Pittsburg, KS quite a few years back. At the time I believe she might have been going to school there. At the time there seemed to be an anointing on what she was doing. I am saddened to read the article. Lord open her eyes to truth and her heart to surrender to You.

Travis.

is why? Why the compulsion to attach oneself to Christianity philosophically, and completely deny that attachment through ones actions.

I suggest it is all about money! After all, if they can say they are gay, their music will appeal to all the 'tolerant' folks - us old fashion folks are fast becoming few and far in-between. We pose no threat to their wallets or bank accounts.

Sorry, I cannot be more positive..

ginnyrose

I liked what Areadymind mind stated: "Daniel chapter nine is what we do codek...we pray prayers of repentance for our wayward people, even if we are not involved with it ourselves. Daniel received vision from God when he repented on behalf of his own people, though his own sin was never mentioned."

This is the most merciful thing I've ever read in the many topics about homosexuality on sermonindex. Thank you for posting this, areadymind.

It is intriguing Tom, that you quoted Hebrews 12:15...
The following is more personal testimony than it has directly to do with why I posted the thread, though I think the concept links to the musicians story.

You made me think back again to my original story about the Spirit of the age and how when I was under my own deception, there was a very direct linkage to bitterness that had crept into my heart. At the time I was angry to a degree with a particular group of believers whom I felt then, and still feel today (even though I have completely forgiven them) as if they had wronged me inadvertently. My own spiritualization of sin did have a linkage to this bitterness. Praise God for His endless mercy that He delivered me from this gall that I was in. Bitterness has severed many walks with God.

I cannot count how many people whom I have known over the years who allowed just a little bit of bitterness to creep in and before you know it they were justifying their sin and in a place of hatred of other believers. Then...they just disappeared.

That we could be so deluded as to anoint Sin as a virtue. It's shocking, if we consider it.It is as though that the wicked have discovered a new avenue of GRACE, and are proudly trumpeting it as revelation.

So true Tom...especially the idea of proudly trumpeting it as revelation. I think this concept has been expressed in some of the books of this X-religeneration.

This is exactly why I think that the book of Jude is so incredibly important (I know I have posted this idea like I am kicking a dead horse on this forum...but I will one more time) and that preachers need to be preaching the message Jude talked about. Especially how he starts the epistle after his "disclaimer" in verse three. (It is a total distraction that many use verse three of Jude for the idea of apologetics...Jude is not talking AT ALL about defending the faith against Buddhism, Islam, the occult, fill in the blank with other religions etc...he is talking about those amongst our ranks that seethe with a naturally rebellious spirit, whom then foment into outright falsehood. Jude is about a battle within the kingdom.)

I have always like this quote from Marcus Tullius Cicero, and I think it applies to this conversation. Even though he meant it politically...I rob it and apply it spiritually “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Jude 4

It was these words that began to completely change my life and saved me from being a cultural christian. God used this passage to radically open my eyes to what was going on around me. After I had spent months meditating on this passage of scripture (as well as the whole book of Jude,) I became cognizant of this style of teaching. I started to hear it everywhere. I looked back over my own discipleship and recognized that I had been subtly taught this. Not intentionally, at least I do not think it was so, but I learned it nonetheless. Because of current traditions and the way the gospel is so often presented, we are not taught what grace is in its full sense. We have been taught well what it is in a partial sense, but I think that a partial sense is destructive. Grace is more than just forgiveness, if you don't think so then wrap your head around this..."But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen." 2Peter 3:18. If we are to grow in "forgiveness" then I guess I have to sin more, for how else can I grow in grace if grace is unmerited forgiveness, or favor?

I am not setting up a straw man, this is how I have been taught over the years to understand grace...it is almost always presented as God's unmerited favor, forgiveness, and love regardless of what we do. And to an extent it is. I just have come to see grace as a billion times more than that...it is forgiveness with capacity. Grace is like a heavenly capacitor, charged to an infinite asymptote and released through Christs blood from the cross, through the Spirit. It not only saves us but gives us the voltage we need for perfection. It is the answer to Galatians rhetorical question, "Are ye so foolish, having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect in the flesh?" HEAVEN'S NOOOO!!! We are perfected through faith in the same thing that saved us to start with, the resurrection Power of Christ. Grace is so much bigger. So much more vast, the grace of Calvary is the very wellspring of God's nature...the more we grow in this grace...the less distinction we find between our nature and God's nature. It is the destruction of the flaming swords preventing entrance to Eden in the final sense, but certainly restores fellowship in the now sense. Eye has not seen...ear has not heard...

It is my own personal opinion, and is not a hill I am willing to die on, but I see Jude as being a prophetic epistle...even down to its placement in the bible. Right before the Revelation...it is the last word on doctrine prior to the Apocalypse...and I do not see that as a coincidence. It seems to me as if Jude is our line in the sand during the beginning of sorrows. As it would seem to me that Jude almost saw our day...he was so tuned into the idea that men had, and were going to corrupt God's grace and make it into something that benefits those who are only...pathetically...wretchedly... natural. "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Jude 10

The question for me has never been, should I show mercy to a sinner. Christ showed us that we are always to go low and show compassion on one caught in the act of adultery, which was the only time we ever saw him write anything. Which makes that event significant even if we do not know what he wrote.

The thing that is a struggle in so many of our circles today is brute beasts. Too many of us know these kinds of believers...and often times it is the rule and not the exception that they are using the grace of God to maintain a natural state. I only know this because I was one of them. Praise God he opens blind eyes. At the end of the Epistle there are two solutions to this mass deception from wicked men, "And of some have compassion, making a difference; And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Jude 22-23 People whom have been swayed by this kind of deception need either compassion...or fire, and I think only the Spirit of God can give us the knowledge as to which is needed. It is not something we can play Russian Roulette with.

Sorry for the long post...

Wonderful and thoughtful post Areadymind. It takes great amounts of prayer and wisdom to address this sort of subject, although I know many will criticize it to justify their own lusts.

The words may be strong, but there are so many that simply drowning before our eyes because they idolize these musicians even above their own pastors. I have always feared that the music that was introduced into the churches was planted by the fallen cherub himself.

I am so saddened by the parents who will someday stand before God and give an account of why they did not rule their houses well and deliver their children safely to the cross. These are perilous times for sure.

I remember being taken aback when someone that was involved heavily in satanism and then was saved, exposed the fact that trained witches and wizards would plant themselves in churches to infect the body with sin.

They creep in unawares, and with subtilty, introduce false doctrine and rebellion. They know the Word far more than most Christians do because they are literally trained to cause the saints to fall. If they appeared outright evil and sinful, they would never be received, but they are charismatic and know how to gain the praises of the congregation.

Yes, I so believe the epistle of Jude is prophetic as well as II Thessalonians, II Peter, and James to mention a few. If we read watered down versions of the Word, and spend no time in brokenness and prayer, we greatly risk being deceived.

I have visited this young woman's website, and done some research which convinces me that she simply does not know the Lord. There isn't even a hint of anguish or shame for the sin she is in. Worst of all, she is performing in the "Lilith Tour" this year. Look that word up and it's Hebrew meaning, and tell me a professing Christian could do this to our Lord.

Somehow, we have forgotten who we are insulting and mocking first and foremost. They have turned the truth of God into a lie and convinced people that it is okay to sin so that "good may come". God forbid.

He is a great and dreadful God and now we fear the opinions of others, and are not willing to stand in the gap.

Dear saints, how grieved our Lord must be that we shrink when others challenge His Word by their deeds. I do not believe in screaming and hollering, but I truly believe in addressing these things with great soberness of mind.

Let us pray for those that are bold enough to hold fast to sound doctrine. May the time come when God will be able to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are perfect towards Him.

"Lilith Tour" this year. Look that word up and it's Hebrew meaning, and tell me a professing Christian could do this to our Lord.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! This is hideous, demonic...No one can embrace this mindset and be a follower of God!

SICK!!! almost makes one vomit!

Ok, so I respoded emotionally - good thing there are people who can think rationally and inform others why this thing is so ungodly...God bless you.

ginnyrose

Thanks Brothertom. It is no wonder that this nation is referred to as Sodom and Egypt.

I have been thinking about this thread for a couple of days now and wondering about something. It seems Jennifer Knapp has said that she was always this way, that she just pretended not to be "who" she is before and I think I read something along those lines about Ray Boltz as well. My question is music that they did before, should it be listened to knowing that they are living in open rebellion to God and in sin? I was thinking that all of it should be thrown out but wonder what others think? Was the christian music they wrote and sang about before ever really from the Lord or was all of it just a lie??
I myself am often shocked at how easy it is to be deceived. I keep telling my children you must be in the Bible and have daily fellowship with the Lord, you must know His voice because the enemy is always waiting to try to use and opportunity to draw us away from the Lord.

God Bless
mj

MJ Said...

"It seems Jennifer Knapp has said that she was always this way, that she just pretended not to be "who" she is before and I think I read something along those lines about Ray Boltz as well."

I would be curious to see a link or something where she said that...although I got that implication in the article that I posted in the first place and kind of derived that attitude myself just from some of the other stuff I read. There are many "Christian" bands I no longer listen to because their music is just plain filled with so much compromise and beastlyness that I mostly only listen to worship music or instrumental anymore. However, that is only me and has no bearing on anyone.

However MJ...this is an issue of conscience. If listening to her early album, which if I remember right, was pretty right on, causes you to sear your conscience in any way or harden you to being sensitive to the Spirit then by all means throw that meat sacrificed to Idols out on the street. However if you are ignorant of the light of truth, and it is simply edifying then I guess don't become un-ignorant.

However, I would lean toward throwing the worshipers of Diana into confusion, Acts 19:29. In such a way as to hear them say that we, "ought to be quite and do nothing rashly." As the town-clerk of Ephesus told Paul. This comes from being people who simply preaches the gospel in the Power of the Holy Spirit so that those who hear it are full-on confronted by their idolatry. The casting out of Idols and garbage linked to Idolatry is a fruit of the gospel reformation in peoples lives.

This sermon [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=10843&commentView=itemComments]A Time to Cry[/url] by David Legge, was the sermon that really hooked me into this website. I had randomly subscribed to the classics podcast because I found it on itunes looking for Tozer sermons. If you have not listened to it yet I could not recommend it more. I weep when I listen to this. And have heard it probably ten times now. David Legge is mourning over the fact that the sheep of God are smoking in God's anger because of the fact that the wicked have taken over the house of God. He gives a gut-wrenching, heart-felt exposition from Psalm 74 that speaks to this whole discussion very well. Take time to give it a listen...

Hope that helps MJ...if not, sorry.

In Christ.

-Jeremiah

In my post I said that Jennifer Knapp said she had always been this way and I wrote that as if it was a direct quote. I worded my post incorrectly and should have taken more care. What she said was she hoped that people would give her a chance as she breaks away from the yoke of being something she just can't be. She did talk about relationships that she had with women when she was in college that she was admonished about even though they were not physical.
Just wanted to clear that up, from the many articles out there I do think this is something she has known or had in her life for some time, it is not a new revelation for her, that was my understanding at least.

I am not the one who listened to her music actually it was my son. He told me though that he does not feel right in listening to her music any longer, but to be fair he also said he has not really listened to her stuff in awhile.
He was sorry to hear that she is so lost and we will both be praying for her.

God bless
mj