ORAL ROBERTS VISION

I was wondering if anyone has read or heard Oral Roberts vision?I'm having a hard time believing it was from God in light of scripture references Jesus used. Just wondering what everyone thinks.I've observed that thoughs who frequent here tend to be more serious minded.The spiritual man judges all things.God bless

Brother,What vision? Is it possible to post a site, or paste a copy that I might read?Blessings,Jeff

I have many, many friends who attend Oral Roberts University. The majority of the people I know think he is an upstanding man of God. I, however, do have a few reservations with him. For instance, one of the required courses for the first year at ORU is to take a one-semester course on the life of Oral Roberts. This, to me, seems rather egotistic... a sort of, "Before you serve God with your knowledge and career, let me tell you about how I did it. Listen to all the great things I did for God." If it is God's will, I certainly do not want to attend there, not just for that, but also because they make Physical Education a required course for every semester in college, and I am a clumsy, weak person who would probably fail.Also, like Greg mentioned, a lot of his teachings, while not anti-Scriptural, have minimal Biblical support. And some of the things, like the belief that, when the Bible says that the power of life or death is in the tongue it means that it is the act of speaking, not the act of believing, that causes spiritual change, could be rooted in the New Age movement (also known as Cosmic Humanism).As for his vision, I believe he actually had one. Whether or not it was from God or from medication, I don't know. He certainly believes it was from God. I suppose each will have to discern for himself as best he can.

Two things come to mind that would be helpful about Oral Roberts:1. Deut. 13:1-3 talks about a prophet or a dreamer who has visions that actually come to pass but in reality they are false prophets.2. D.R. McConnell (a graduate of ORU) wrote a book called "A Different Gospel." It's a very good resource on the hyper-charismatic movement.

The scariest thing to me is that Kenneth Copeland is assuming spiritual authority over both of them and is clearly in control of the whole situation. is assuming spiritual authority over both of them and is clearly in control of the whole situation.I would only change that to "The scariest thing to me is Kenneth Copeland"This is not someone anyone should be giving their ears to period.

This was sent to me and i've posted it because dohzman asked if any of us had actually heard the vision, so please don't stone me ... Anyone interested can actually read it for themselves, and then can decide if you'd like to stone brother Roberts ... Oral's Vision: In the midst of the turmoil, the fear, the anxiety that's in our nation and in our world, as I was walking and meditating, I heard the voice of God. I've heard that voice many times; it's familiar to me, and there's no way that I can fail to understand it's His voice because I'm familiar with it. And instantly I heard that voice and I heard it and then I saw with my eyes something I'd never seen. Suddenly, in the clouds in the skies above New York City and the east part of the United States, and which hung there for quite some time and then spread out across America, without touching the ground, and then God diffused it away from America and sent it out to the nations of the earth. And I saw and I heard. What did I see? I saw something coming down from above: smoke and vapor and blood, or it looked like that to my eyes, to my spiritual eyes. There it was; hanging so huge until it almost blotted out the sky. Instantly I thought about 9/11, when the terrorists attacked the twin towers and through television, all of us in America, and probably the world, saw those more than a hundred-story-high buildings crumple and heard the cry of thousands of people who were being either killed or wounded. I remembered the fear that struck my heart and knew that what I was feeling, everybody else was feeling, and remembered that never in the history of the world, and certainly not of America, that something of this proportion had struck the human race and was a preview of things similar to it that were going to happen through what we now call terrorists. First I saw this thing hovering and great changes coming in it to where I couldn't miss it, and then I heard, something came into my ears, and it reminded me of what a friend of mine had said when the first space capsule was released into the sky. He said when that thing lifted off the earth, there was a sound, and the sound itself moved the weeds and the growth, and he said, "It penetrated my body." He said, "As I talked to others, they felt the same thing." He said the sound was so enormous. Instantly I thought of that, because the sound that was coming into my ears was penetrating my whole being. And then I heard God's voice. He said, “I'm making a sign. This is a sign according to the second chapter of Acts, where the Apostle Peter, upon the giving of the Holy Spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, said there'll be signs in the skies.” He said, “This is one of the signs of the end time because the world is not ready for the second coming of my Son.” He said, “My church is not ready for the second coming of my Son.” He said, “The Jews, with whom I've had the covenant for thousands of years, they're not ready for the second coming of my Son.” He said, “The nations of the earth are not ready for the second coming of my Son.” He said, “America has been set aside by a special covenant that I made with many of the people who came to found this nation several hundred years ago, that this was my nation and the gospel was going to go out from it unlike any other nation and there'd be more gospel going out from America.” And he said, “Not only would there be a powerful military presence in the United States unlike any other nation, but it would be the center of the gospel that I was sending out.” And he said to me, “You remember that I said in my Bible to my disciples 2,000 years ago, ‘Go into all the world and teach all nations, and when that teaching has reached the nations then shall the end come.’” And then he startled me. He said, “With all of the widespread force of my church in the world, but particularly in the United States, which is the source of most of the gospel that's being preached in all the world, he said, there is a wasting of my power; there is a failure to grasp the end time. And the church, they are coming to church on Sunday morning mostly for themselves and the preachers, for the most part, are not really concerned about the nations of the earth. They're concerned about the little group that is there, and they sing their songs and they get up and preach. And he said, “When 9/11 struck, there was a fear that came into the hearts, even of my people of the church and of people outside the church; and millions the following Sunday or two rushed to go to church, but the preachers were not prepared, and most of them didn't even preach on it and didn't even talk about it being the sign of something that's coming hundreds of thousands of times bigger.” He said, “When those planes of the terrorists struck the twin towers in New York City and they gradually came tumbling down, it was something bigger than people had ever seen; but it's nothing in comparison to what's going to happen in the second coming of my Son.” And so he said, “My church was not prepared to deal with that, and people came to church and then nothing much happened, and they dropped back, and many of them went back to their bars, and there I was with my whole creation that's alive in the earth, not counting all those who have died, millions who have lived and died, all of whom will be resurrected at some time in the future, having to do with the second coming of my Son, some to everlasting life, some to live forever in their new bodies and some to everlasting shame and contempt forever lost.” And he said, “I love people, I created them. I love them by creation. I love them because I sent my only begotten Son.” And instantly I thought of the great show that Mel Gibson made of The Passion. When millions upon millions went to see [The Passion] and are seeing it now all over the world. I remember when I sat there with my wife, watching it, and how my soul was stirred and the tears sprang from my eyes and my body trembled as I saw something about the sufferings of Jesus, the Son of God, to save the human race and so that the devil would not destroy God's creation, he would not destroy men, women and children that God had created and for whom Jesus had died and rose from the dead, that we might be born again, we might repent of our sins and have salvation and come into a readiness for the coming of Christ. And he says, “As you know in the Bible, the second coming is in two parts. One is called the rapture; one is called the revelation. And, first of all, I'm going to rapture, or catch up, my people, the people who are born of my Spirit and filled with my Spirit and serving me. I'm going to catch them up in a moment of time and they'll meet my Son in the clouds and come on into heaven, into my presence. And then not long after, I'm going to bring that bride of Christ back with Jesus when he comes the second time to the earth, and that'll be the beginning of the judgment of the nations.” But he said, “The thing that is breaking my heart is that I commanded my people, I commanded my church to preach the gospel in all the world and to teach all nations. And while they are evangelists and pastors and prophets and apostles and all kinds of my workers in various parts of the world and in some of the nations of the earth, it's just a drop in the bucket to what I commanded my disciples to do. And I love people so much I cannot afford to let people go on like they are.” And then he directed my attention to the book of Matthew, the 24th chapter, where he speaks in the 24th chapter and beginning at verse 35: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." What I'm talking about is known only to the Father. "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Now he reminded me in the 6th chapter of Genesis that the earth was filled with violence and it was so full it couldn't be any more full, and it grieved the heart of God that he had made man, and he decided that he would destroy man and begin over. And he established a remnant, and it was a family, Noah and his family. And he commanded him to build a huge boat that would take two of every living thing in it so when the flood came (and they'd never had rain before in the earth; it had been watered by a mist), he said, “When the flood comes and this boat with this family and two of every living thing gets in it, and the flood lifts them up from the earth that's being destroyed—or from the human race that's being destroyed—the flood that lifts the ark, or the remnant of my people, in Noah's day, will come down in judgment upon the people of the earth.” And he said, “Now, there's got to be preaching with fire in the belly. There's got to be anointing of the Holy Ghost. My church has to wake up, because what I'm revealing in this sign that every eye is going to see, every ear is going to hear, they'll see this thing. They will not necessarily know what it is, but it's a wake‑up call about the second coming of my Son. “It's not going to come and touch the earth. It's going to be seen, it's going to be heard, and people are going to become aware of the drama of the end time, of the second coming of Christ when he splits the skies and comes back with His bride and takes over the reign of the earth, and he destroys the Antichrist who will arise at that time; he will destroy the followers of Antichrist and he'll establish His kingdom upon the earth.” And he said, “I cannot let anybody live and die without knowledge that my Son is coming back the second time.” I asked God about the church, what was the condition of the church and what effect should this revelation that he's bringing as a wake‑up call have on his church. I'll never forget what he said, and I say it very carefully and without trying to offend anybody. He said, “There's an emptiness in my church.” He said, “There is a weakness, a wimpiness, like being a wimp. There's a spirit of weakness in the people who are trying to proclaim my gospel.” He said, “They are not feeling me on the inside of them. They're taking some form of theology and taking that little form and they're following what they've been taught, and the people are coming and sitting there and crossing their arms and saying, ‘Well, I hope I feel better when this service is over.’ And they get up and go home. But,” he said, “there's not very much happening.” And he said, “There's got to be a wake‑up because the second coming is going to change everything and change every human being who has lived before and who's alive now. “ He said, “Don't you see that if I don't do something and if I don't wake up this country, wake up my people and wake up the nations, that it's going to look like I don't love people? It's going to look like that my Son died in vain. It's going to look like I have not prepared a new heaven and a new earth for this world that's perishing, for this world that's the sickest it's ever been?” People are the sickest they've ever been. We have the best medicine. We have the most prayer. But they're the sickest they have ever been. The medical problem by itself is probably the most serious problem on a personal basis that people believe they are facing right now. Now I just think about that. Of all the new medicines, of the consecration of hundreds of thousands and millions of trained doctors and nurses and healthcare people...In the midst of the vision, I asked God about the coming election on November the 2nd in the United States for the president, and he just said one thing. He said, "It's a spiritual battle." And I said, "But they're talking about the economy. They're talking about the war and Afghanistan and Iraq, and talking about the conflict between Islam and a so‑called Christian nation." America is not a Christian nation, it just has a lot of Christians in it. But he said, "It's a spiritual battle." He said, “Whoever gets in is going to have to wage a spiritual battle in the United States.” And he said spiritual people have got to wake up, and wake up now.” And then that's all he said. God then directed me to Acts 2, beginning at verse 17, just after he had poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost on the first 120 disciples of Jesus Christ after the Resurrection. And beginning at verse 16, Peter said, "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh." You see, we're in the last days and God's about to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. That's what I saw and what I heard. "I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams: and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy." And listen, now, at verse 19: "And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke." That's what he said he would do, and I had not connected that with our time. I'd connected that with the actual second coming as it was happening, which will have much of it, of course; but here he's connecting it after the baptism of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon his disciples, there'll be these signs of blood and fire and vapor and smoke. They'll be coming down toward the earth. And I believe that's what he showed me, that I saw at least that much of it and heard it. Well, I shook in my body. I went into the kitchen where Evelyn, my darling wife, was, and I immediately told her. The following day my son, Richard, flew out from Tulsa to California, where I now live in the sunset of my life. I'm now 86 and Evelyn is 87. And I set him down and I told him what I've told you.

I was directed to Benny Hinn's site, by a freind, to watch a broadcast of the Robert's vision. To me, it was quite disturbing. Perhaps due to an apparent emphasis on 'pre-trib rapture'. Perhaps I misunderstood, as I wasn't giving my full attention, however something about it disturbed my spirit. Perhaps even, it was the evironment that it was being presented. Who knows? I sure don't.

CJakforest you wrote;"Who knows? I sure don't"My sentiments exactly ...i really don't like having this trepidation about talking about this subject because i'm not trying to get reprimanded, but here goes ...The reason i was sent this transcript of Oral Roberts vision is because of a discussion i was having with some saints about a thread i posted here on SI and the reaction i got from it ...Catholic Apparitions: St. Malachy, Fatima & Garabandal? ...https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3921&forum=35&2i was telling them about my wonderment concerning mainly the Catholic apparitions of Garabandal Spain in 1961, and what was prophesied by four little girls ... Well lo and behold i was sent the O.R. vision transcript because one of the saints noticed a startling similarity between what was said back in 1961 about "God's warning sign in the sky" from one of the 12 year olds ...Quote;http://www.garabandal.org/warning.shtml"First, a World-Wide Warning that will happen in the sky...like the collision of two stars that do not fall down... it will frighten all humanity regardless of where one happens to be at the time... it will be a thousand times worse than earthquakes... like a fire that will not burn our flesh ... it will last a very short time, although to us it will seem to be a very long time ... no one can prevent it from happening ... It will be recognized as coming from God... it will resemble a punishment ... it is meant to be a purification ... like the revelation of our sins and what we will feel in our hearts will be worse than sorrow. It will not kill us, if we die it will be caused by the emotion within us. The date was not revealed only that it will happen before the announcement of the miracle". And what was said by Oral Robert's just recent ...Quote;"I saw with my eyes something I'd never seen. Suddenly, in the clouds in the skies above New York City and the east part of the United States, and which hung there for quite some time and then spread out across America, without touching the ground, and then God diffused it away from America and sent it out to the nations of the earth. And I saw and I heard. What did I see? I saw something coming down from above: smoke and vapor and blood, or it looked like that to my eyes, to my spiritual eyes. There it was; hanging so huge until it almost blotted out the sky.First I saw this thing hovering and great changes coming in it to where I couldn't miss it, and then I heard, something came into my ears, and it reminded me of what a friend of mine had said when the first space capsule was released into the sky. He said when that thing lifted off the earth, there was a sound, and the sound itself moved the weeds and the growth, and he said, "It penetrated my body." He said, "As I talked to others, they felt the same thing." He said the sound was so enormous. Instantly I thought of that, because the sound that was coming into my ears was penetrating my whole being. And then I heard God's voice. He said, “I'm making a sign. This is a sign according to the second chapter of Acts, where the Apostle Peter, upon the giving of the Holy Spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, said there'll be signs in the skies.There's got to be anointing of the Holy Ghost. My church has to wake up, because what I'm revealing in this sign that every eye is going to see, every ear is going to hear, they'll see this thing. They will not necessarily know what it is, but it's a wake-up call about the second coming of my Son. “It's not going to come and touch the earth. It's going to be seen, it's going to be heard, and people are going to become aware of the drama of the end time, of the second coming of Christ when he splits the skies and comes back with His bride and takes over the reign of the earth, and he destroys the Antichrist who will arise at that time; he will destroy the followers of Antichrist and he'll establish His kingdom upon the earth.” And he said, “I cannot let anybody live and die without knowledge that my Son is coming back the second time.” ...Now again, i'm not coming at this as absolute truth because i think we all know that the Word of God is absolute truth ... But i do come at such things with questions (as are mentioned in my initial thread) ... Are these visions from God? .... satan? .... fanciful flights of fancy from the vain imaginings of men ... maliciously contrived cons? ... or as in the case of the above two alledged visions ... coincidence? ... or is it really the Lord doing His Joel thing? ...Hey i know there are some of you who are quick to dismiss this kind of thing without any thought to it at all, but i'm not of your ilk so if you find me disturbing then please pray for me, for i'd be a liar if i said i don't wonder ... Now i'm wondering if Oral Roberts knows anything about Conchita Gonzalez and her alledged apparitions of "the great warning in the sky" ...

I originally posted the question because I was conducting a bible study for our local fellowship in between preaching engagements. The topic came up and, not being a great fan of Oral or Copeland , I was completely in the dark. That started my quest. I read all I could and listened to all the media file I could. What I concluded after it was all said and done was that it was just another way to get money. In the end they wanted money. In Peter he talks about running greedily after gain in the error of Baalim. I do note that Baalim was called a prophet of God and had a reputation as one who spoke blessings and cursings for God. The time came when he wanted money to curse the children of Israel,well you know the story so I won't go there. My conclusion in the whole of the matter was that according to the transcripts I read of the 3 different Broadcasts, the book, and the TV interviews(3 of them), this thing has to happen this year. Oral seems to have a bad track record in prophesying events and even though he reguarded highly by many according to scripture he's a false prophet(at least in prohesy-prediction ect...).I'll write some more in a little while but have to run for now. God bless

dohzman you wrote;"not being a great fan of Oral or Copeland " ...Me neither, particularly the latter ... There's just something about Copeland that really tweaks my spiritual spider senses ...You also wrote;"What I concluded after it was all said and done was that it was just another way to get money. In the end they wanted money. My conclusion in the whole of the matter was that according to the transcripts I read of the 3 different Broadcasts, the book, and the TV interviews(3 of them), this thing has to happen this year". See that's the thing that got me too ... i was channel surfing one evening and came across Richard Roberts talking about this new vision his dad alledgedly had recieved, then he went into "you've got to get this", and then proceeded to name an offering limit for it's obtaining ... That sent me into instant prayer for all in the Roberts concern because i said to the Lord, "Lord ... they're selling a vision"!!! ... As brother Greg posted i too can see some things in this alledged vision that is true regarding the Church, and as for the "sign in the sky" i can even get to that as God does speak of causing signs in the heavens, but first of all to make up a vision or word from God as a malicious con scares me to no end, but then to do so with the added wickedness of selling it for profit just short circuits my brain ... i know that there are many charlatans out here with no fear of the Lords repercussion at all, but i sure hope and pray that Oral Roberts, and his family, are not counted amongst them ... I hope that in his case (if this is not an authenic vision from God) that he's perhaps a victim of fanciful flights of vain imaginings instead of maliciously contriving cons for mammon ...And i wasn't aware that Oral has set his alledged vision into a time frame ... That's one of the things that i just recently found out about the alledged vision of the Garabandal incident, as that this "sign in heaven" is locked in to taking place in the life time of the present pope ... i guess time is running out on both alledged visions and visionaries huh? ...

Yea time is running out for both. Peter talks about those running greedy after gain in the error of baalim. I read up on baalim and he was refered as a prophet of God who went astray and got greedy.I rember what Wilkerson preached many years ago, he said if we refuse to listen to the voice of God and his word and deal with our secret idols then thoughs same idols would speak to us as if they were the voice of God, scarey. I guess I still believe ministers/ministeries should preach and teach living on the freewill offerings of God's people. Selling the things of God kinda concerns me. I wonder if Jesus considers much of what we see in christian merchandise the same way as he did the temple market when he over turned the money changers tables?

dohzman you wrote;"I rember what Wilkerson preached many years ago, he said if we refuse to listen to the voice of God and his word and deal with our secret idols then thoughs same idols would speak to us as if they were the voice of God, scarey". I guess I still believe ministers/ministeries should preach and teach living on the freewill offerings of God's people. Selling the things of God kinda concerns me. I wonder if Jesus considers much of what we see in christian merchandise the same way as he did the temple market when he over turned the money changers tables?Wow! ... i'd not heard this before ... That is scary ... This is why we've constanly got to keep examining our selves/motives under the all revealing light of Scripture ... We saints have to be so careful of idolotry ... i know just recently the Lord has been dealing with me concerning my/our little small, easily hidden idols (secret sins) of Laban(satan) ... He said, "Sure my son you/my people are careful to knock down and destroy your/their big idols, the ones that call attention to double worship, but you/my people are still very guilty of your/their little ones" ... Well that's the whole lesson of Jacob's being called back to Bethel a second time, a return to His first love experience, but with the extra added benefit of he and his entire comgregation finally giving up, and burying even their little secret sin idolotry ... i dare say that our Lord is soon to call His entire Church back to Bethel a second time for our deep cleansing ... And yes i certainly believe that Christ sees all this so called "Christian merchandising" as "thieves in His Church" ... i've been praying for some time now that God would do something unmistakably Him to slap us ALL to attention ... i don't claim to have any visions as to what He will do, but i have no doubt that He's about to do something miraculous about all this mess we've slipped into again ...

dohzman you asked a question about the money changers and i just got this from ...ANZAC Prophetic List (Strom's Ministry)"Modern Day MONEY CHANGERS"-by David Ravenhill.I’m convinced that the carnal, cunning, conniving, crooked crooksthat Jesus drove out of the Temple are still among us today.These modern day moneychangers are forever devising new anddeceptive doctrines to defraud God’s people out of His/theirmoney. These masters of deceit have now set up their changingtables throughout the Christian television industry.I’m absolutely certain that if Jesus returned today He would walkinto the vast majority of these television studios and overthrowthe cameras, lights, monitors, and soundboards. He wouldunplug the microphones and scatter the makeup colors aroundas He went about destroying the stages and backdrops.Several years ago now, a nationally know prophetic voice wastold by the Lord, “I’m sick and tired of the prosperity message”.If that was true then, how much more today. As far back as1986, the top seven media evangelists took in over 750 milliondollars. Now with the increased manipulation of ‘seed faithteaching’ that amount has no doubt been dwarfed by comparison.Only a few days ago I was appalled as I watched and listened asPastor Steve__________ zealously twisted and distorted theScriptures to his own advantage. This ‘brother’ dared to distortthe most sacred truth of all Scripture. He used The Day OfAtonement, that day when Jesus Christ the Lamb of God shed Hisblood for the sins of the world, to teach that how we give financiallydetermines how God will respond to us throughout the coming year.My blood boiled as I listened. This ‘brother’ had finally crossed theline and was now on the verge of blaspheming the atoning work ofour blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not to mention lining hisown pockets with the proceeds. He might as well have beenselling indulgences by inferring that God’s favor toward us wasbased on our giving rather than God’s unmerited grace andforgiveness through the gift of His Son. What made matters worsewas that this same ‘charlatan’ was the guest of one of the nation’sbest known charismatic personalities. Within a day or so he wasteaching the same message on a local Christian telethon. Neitherthe evangelist nor the network sought to correct his aberrantteaching – after all, the show must go on and that takes money,so how you raise it doesn’t seem to matter anymore.Why does almost every single Christian program have to end withsome type of ‘seed faith teaching’? If these men and women offaith really believed what they taught, they would practice whatthey preach and teach; after all what’s good for the goose is goodfor the gander. Imagine how shocked you would be if your favoritetelevangelist and covenant partner were to send you a check intheir next mailing for the amount of $1,000.00 with a personalnote telling you he/she just wanted to sow into your life. Perhapsthen I could believe that these men/women really believe andpractice what they teach. Not only that, but they would neverhave to appeal for money again as God’s return to them wouldresult in a hundredfold increase. At least that’s what they wouldhave us to believe.On a recent ministry trip to the Northwest, I was told by a pastorfriend that his church had received a call from a well known andanointed teacher in the Body of Christ. The caller was askingthem for a contribution towards the purchase of a jet for theirministry. What a far cry from what the Apostle Paul taught whenhe prefaced his teaching on ‘sowing and reaping’ with thesewords; “ For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction,but by way of equality.” (II Cor. 8:13-14)Many pastors measure their success in terms of numbers –thelarger the church the more successful their ministry. Itinerantministries, not being able to brag about size, seem to fall for thenotion that having one’s own jet is how success is determined.(Once it was the Rolex watch). By the way, if you love andappreciate this fine teacher, pray that he won’t get the desiresof his heart - it will only lead to the leanness of his soul.This is one man’s attempt to appeal to the Body of Christ. Stoppandering to these moneychangers. These men and women livelike kings while spending your money to buy mansions and jetsfor themselves. They dine in the finest restaurants, wear thelatest designer fashions and then have the audacity to tell youthat you can live the same way as long as you give to their ministry.I opened my Bible the other day to Zechariah’s wonderful prophecyconcerning the first coming of Jesus, our great and glorious King.Listen to his words; ‘Behold your King is coming to you; He isjust and endowed with salvation, humble, and mounted on a donkey,even on a colt the foal of a donkey.’( Zechariah 9:9 ) What a farcry from the televangelist who comes high and mighty and travelingon his own jet!If you are as sick and tired as I am about this waste of God’smoney, then for heaven’s sake STOP SUPPORTING THESEPEOPLE. Give your money to your local church. There are tensof thousands of needy missionaries who barely have enoughsupport to keep themselves alive. They are laboring long and hardunder some of the most difficult and trying conditions. They wouldrejoice at the thought of an extra $10-30 dollars a month support.These are the real heroes of whom the world is not worthy. Helpput these MONEY LOVING TELEVANGELISTS OUT OFBUSINESS and save another MISSIONARY FROM EXTINCTION.Together we can make it happen. Please forward this to as manypeople as you know.Thanks.-David Ravenhill.

Brother Greg you wrote;"Brother its off the chart for me. This fellow Copeland is a false teacher BIG TIME.. theres barely any decernment needed for that statement. I would stay far away from him" ...Amen ... i remember when he first started out, and the subsequent awful "name it and claim it" era, and he/it got progressively worse to a point where decades ago i tuned him out ... Fact is i'm not to keen on anybody (that i know of) out of the Kenneth Hagin movement ... It's also one of the problems i have with Creflo, who to many of those in my circle who like to have their ears tickled would ride you out of town on a rail if they could if you say anything negative against him ... Thank God he's not allowing me to be ridden on rails in this regard, or my feet would never touch the ground again ...And yes i too agree with your admonition that everyone that is reading this thread should listen to: Run for your Life by Carter Conlon ... It's a very enlightening and revealing sermon not only about the thieves in the temple, but also about the type of folk who like to be stolen from ...

Hey all check this out. I just recently seen that there is now a Volume 2 to this so called "Wake Up" vision that Oral Roberts received. Its called "Wake Up Volume 2: Last Days Prosperity for You and the end time harvest." A Prosperity message, imagine that. Richard Roberts said:"Recently, my dad told me that God had spoken to him again with a continued revelation of his "wake-up" vision from the Lord. This message contains God's word to Oral on: The importance of Christians getting out of the world's system of debt and getting into His system of true Bible prosperity. How tithing can provide prosperity for the end-time harvest of souls and for you through His: - Ideas, concepts, and insights. - Protection of your assets. - Supernatural favor."If the vision wasnt questionable before it definitely should be questionable now. This new volume 2 message that God gave Oral to tell his people is now available for a "seed-faith" gift. How ABSURD, you almost want to question these men if they think people are so blind to actually pay for something they say God gave them to give to the people. But people ARE that blind. People have been supporting these heretics for years. A seed-faith gift for something that God gives for free, HOW BLIND CAN WE GET? I looked at this and the only thing I can see out of this is nothing more than another product for them to sale. NOTHING more than just another product, they made so much money off the original "vision" this is just another chance to get more. I know the Christian TV station I just resigned from are all over this thing. Especially now that there is a prosperity message to it now. I believe that God will soon make his real prophets known, who will take the message of judgment to come and proclaim it freely in the open and in truth.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.Isaiah 55:8-9These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. Psalms 50:21-22