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Revival Dawn and the Baptism of the Spirit by Jesse Penn-Lewis

sermonindex May 16, 2010

We have seen that the period in the believer's life wherein he receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the special time of danger from the evil supernatural world, and the Baptism of the Spirit is THE ESSENCE OF REVIVAL. Revival dawn, is, therefore, the great moment for deceiving spirits to find entrance into the believer by deception through counterfeits, resulting sometimes in the possession dealt with in preceding pages.

The hour of Revival is a time of crisis and possible catastrophe. A crisis in the history of every individual, as well as in the history of a country, a church, or a district. A crisis for the unregenerate man, wherein he settles his eternal destiny, as he accepts, or rejects conversion to God; a crisis to those who receive the fulness of the Holy Spirit, and to those who reject Him; for to the believer who bends and receives the Holy Spirit, it is the day of the visitation of the Most High, but to others it means the decision whether they will become spiritual men or remain carnal (1 Cor. 3: 1); whether they will elect to remain in defeat in the personal life, or determine to press on as overcomers.

Few go through the crisis without deception by the enemy in more or less degree, and only those who cling to the use of their reasoning faculties at this time, can hope to be saved from the catastrophe of becoming a victim to the subtle workings of evil supernatural powers. If the believer does become deceived by evil spirits at the time that he is baptized with the Spirit, almost immediately after the highest point of his experience, he begins through deception to descend into a pit which ultimately means depth of darkness, bondage and misery, until he is undeceived and returns to the normal path. Those who do not discover the deceptions, sink into deeper deception, and become practically useless to God and to the Church.

REVIVAL THE HOUR AND POWER OF GOD
Revival is the hour and power of God, and of the devil, for the descent of the Divine power brings the accompanying onslaught of evil supernatural powers. It means MOVEMENT IN THE SPIRITUAL REALM. Revival itself is the hour of God, when heaven is opened, and the power of God works among men, but when the Divine power appears to pass away, and evil supernatural powers manifest their workings in a man, or a church, or a country, then men marvel that the devil's work should be where God had been so manifest, not knowing that the devil was planting his seeds, and DOING HIS WORK, FROM THE DAWN OF REVIVAL. Revival ebb began with its flow, but all unseen.

In the hour and power of God in Revival, the "Tempter" appears to be absent, but he is present as the Counterfeiter. Men say there is "no devil," and yet it is his greatest harvest time. He is netting his victims, mixing his workings with the workings of God, and beguiling the saints more effectively than he was ever able to do with his temptations to sin. As a counterfeiter, and deceiver, the ever watchful foe uses his old methods of deception and guile on new converts, who, having victory over known sin, think the Tempter has left them, not knowing his new ways. His absence is only apparent, and not real. Satan was never more active among the sons of God.

WHY REVIVAL STOPS
The Devil's great purpose is to stop the Revival power of God, and every Revival that has been given of God to awaken His people, has ceased after a time, more or less short, because of (1) the Church's ignorance of the laws of the spirit for co-working with God;note 1 and (2) the insidious creeping on of the powers of darkness, unrecognized, and yielded to by the people of God through ignorance. Those who are born of the Spirit at such a period of the manifested power of the Holy Spirit emerge into a spiritual world, where they come into contact with spirit-beings of evil, OF WHOSE EXISTENCE THEY HAVE NO EXPERIMENTAL KNOWLEDGE. They become conscious of spiritual forces and things which they think must be of God, and they do not know of the possibility of workings mingled by wicked spirits with the things of God. This is the reason why Revival, which quickens the Church, and for a period manifests to the world the regenerating, uplifting power of God, produces as an aftermath a number of genuine Spirit-born believers who are said to have "religious mania," or are called "cranks." And this is why "Revival" is sooner or later checked and discredited, the testimony to the world destroyed, the sober section of the Church dismayed, and made fearful of its effects..

To put it in bluntest language, the Revival hour is the occasion for evil spirits to obtain "possession" of spiritual believers, and REVIVAL CEASES BECAUSE OF SUCH POSSESSION. The most spiritual believers, baptized with the Holy Spirit, and most fitted to be used of God in Revival service, may become deceived and possessed by evil spirits in their outer being THROUGH ACCEPTING THE COUNTERFEITS OF SATAN. Believers who are not so abandoned to the Spirit escape the acute "possession, " but in their contact with hitherto unknown workings from the spiritual realm, are equally open to deception which is manifested in a less recognizable way.note 2

What is called the "fanatical"note 3 spirit, which in some degree, follows Revival, is purely the work of evil spirits. At Revival dawn the ignorant are teachable, but through their "spiritual experiences," later on they become unteachable. Pre-Revival simplicity gives place to Satanic "infallibility," or an unteachable spirit. Dogged, stubborn obstinacy in a believer after Revival is not from the source of the man himself, but from evil spirits deceiving his mind, holding his spirit in their grip, and making him unbending and unreasonable.note 4

The scheme of the powers of darkness in Revival dawn, is to drive, or push to extreme, what is true. Their "push" is very slight and imperceptible at the beginning, in suggesting thoughts, or impelling to actions a very little contrary to reason, but as the "push" is yielded to, and the use of the reason is silenced,note 5 those who are thus deceived in due course become fanatical. The judgment of those believers impelled to unreasonable actions, may be against, and even resisting the things they are supernaturally urged to do,note 6 yet they are unable to stand against the supernatural power driving them, which they think and believe is from God.

REVIVAL AND WAR ON SATAN
All this, and much else already dealt with in preceding pages, together with the after history of all Revivals of the past, shows that REVIVAL MINUS WAR ON SATAN AND HIS WICKED SPIRITS, must always appear to end in partial failure through the mixed results, consequent upon Satanic counterfeits of the working of the Holy Spirit. The Church, therefore, sorely needs believers equipped with knowledge and discernment, to meet the Satanic counterfeits which invariably follow the advent of Revival, knowing the symptoms of Satanic deception and possession, and able to resist the powers of darkness, and teach the children of God the way of victory over them, as well as the aggressive warfare upon them.note 7 War upon the attacking spirits of evil is indispensable for maintaining the health, sanity and spiritual power of those who are revived.

A PURE REVIVAL--free from the usual aftermath--IS POSSIBLE if the Church understood the truth about the powers of darkness, as well as the way of co- operation with the Holy Spirit. Apart from this same knowledge of the workings of Satan and his wicked spirits, so as to be able to recognize their presence under any guise, no one can with safety accept all the supernatural manifestations which accompany Revival, or believe all seeming "Pentecostal power" to be of God. A PURE Revival is Divine power in full operation, minus sin and Satan. It is not cold "belief," but life, and it has to do with the spirit, not the intellect.

PRAYER FOR REVIVAL
Apart from this same knowledge, those who pray for Revival do not clearly understand what they pray for, nor how to act when their prayers are answered; for they are not prepared to meet the Satanic opposition to their prayers; nor even the dangers attendant upon prayer for Revival.note 8

Why is there not yet world-wide Revival in answer to world-wide prayer? For the same reason that Revival subsides when it has begun, and that prayer meetings for Revival may end in catastrophe, or powerlessness. The check to Revival, both when it has begun, and in the prayer preceding its advent, is caused by the spirits of evil deceiving or hindering the praying ones.

The hindrance to Revival, at the present time lies, not only in this opposition of the powers of darkness, but in the PRESENT CONDITION OF THE MOST SPIRITUAL SECTION OF THE CHURCH, through whom alone God can work in Revival power. These are the believers who know the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and were liberated in spirit in the Revivals of the last decade, but who are now driven back into themselves by the pressure of the enemy in the atmosphere, or else are in captivity to the foe through his counterfeits.

Let these quenched or deceived believers be liberated once more, and THOSE WHO ARE NOW USELESS WILL BE PRICELESS IN VALUE for teaching and strengthening others when Revival is once more given.

INSTRUMENTS FOR REVIVAL
The Holy Spirit is still in those who were baptized with the Spirit, during the last Revivals. The mistake at the time of the Revival in Wales in 1904 was to become occupied with the effects of Revival, and not to watch and pray in protecting and guarding the cause of Revival. The Spirit baptized souls, at present locked up in spirit, or side-tracked through Satanic deceptions, are still those who would be the instruments through whom God could work, were they but set free. Useless now, but priceless in maturity, and experience and knowledge for the guiding and guarding of a Revived Church, when they are once more liberated for true co-working with the Holy Spirit of God.

How, then, should the Lord's praying ones pray at the present time? They should pray

(1) Against evil spirits now blocking and hindering Revival.

(2) For the cleansing and delivering of those who became possessed through deception during the time of later Revivals.

(3) That when Revival is once more given it may be kept pure, and

(4) For the preparation of instruments for Revival, trained and taught of God to guard against further inroads of the powers of darkness.

In brief, let all who pray for Revival, pray for light to reach those who HAVE BEEN ENSNARED INTO BONDAGE TO THE DECEIVING POWERS OF DARKNESS, that they may be set free, and once more become usable in Revival service; then will the forces of evil be beaten back from the ground they have regained, which still belongs to God.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the essence of Revival, for Revival comes from a knowledge of the Holy Spirit, and the way of co-working with Him which enables Him to work in Revival power. The primary condition for Revival is, therefore, that believers should individually know the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. This term being used as a convenient expression for describing a definite influx of the Holy Spirit which thousands of believers throughout the Church of Christ have received as a definite experience. Such an infilling of the Spirit was the cause not only of the Revival in Wales in 1904-5, but of all other Revivals in the history of the world.

The fact that the counterfeiting work of Satan follows Revival through such an opening of the spiritual world as enables the evil spirit-beings to find access to believers under the guise of the Divine Spirit, must not hold back the children of God from seeking the true flood tide of the Spirit, for the bringing about of pure Revival, and the emancipation of the Church of Christ from the bonds of sin and Satan.

WHAT IS A TRUE BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT
It is of primary importance to understand what is a true Baptism of the Spirit, the conditions for its reception, and the effects of obtaining it. Previous chapters will have thrown much light upon what it is not, and the dangers to be avoided in seeking it. It is not an influence coming upon the body, nor, according to the records in the Acts of the Apostles, does it result in physical manifestations, such as convulsions, twitchings and writhings of the human

frame; nor does it rob a man of the full intelligent action of the mind, or ever make him irresponsible for his speech and actions.

In brief, the place of the indwelling of the Spirit of God in man, gives the key to all the true manifestations connected with the Baptism of the Spirit, as well as the conditions for receiving it, and the results in personal experience and service. THAT PLACE IS THE HUMAN SPIRIT. Once let the believer understand that his SPIRIT is the organ through which the Holy Spirit carries out all His operations in and through him, he will be able to discern the true meaning of being filled with the Holy Ghost, and how to detect the counterfeit workings of Satan in the realm of the senses.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit may be described as an influx, sudden or gradual, of the Spirit of God into a man's spirit, which liberates it from the vessel of the soul, and raises it into a place of dominance over soul and body. The freed spirit then becomes an open channel for the Spirit of God to pour through it an outflow of Divine power. The mind receives, at the same time, a clarifying quickening, and the "eye of the understanding" is filled with light (Eph. 1: 18). The body becomes entirely under the man's complete control, as the result of the dominance of the spirit, and often receives a quickening in strength for endurance in the warfare service he finds he has emerged into.

That the Spirit of God OPERATES THROUGH THE ORGAN OF A MAN'S SPIRIT, as shown in the epistles of Paul, needs to be kept in mind in reading the records of the working of the Holy Spirit in the Acts of the Apostles.

THE INFLUX OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AT PENTECOST
On the day of Pentecost, the 120 disciples--men and women--were filled in the spirit, as the Spirit of God filled the atmosphere, and their tongues were liberated, so that THEY THEMSELVES as intelligent personalities, could speak of the mighty works of God as the Spirit gave utterance, i.e., gave them power to speak. The record gives no hint that they became automatons, or that the Spirit spoke HIMSELF through them, or INSTEAD of them. From a spirit under the clothing of, and the afflatus of the Spirit of God, they themselves were given intelligent insight into, and utterance about, the wonderful things of God, as they were "moved" in spirit by Him.

This influx of the Divine Spirit into their spirits, not only left their mental powers in full action, but clarified them, and increased their keenness of discernment and power of thought, as seen in the action and the words of Peter, who spoke with such convincing power that through his words--inspired by the Spirit, but spoken by him in intelligent clearness of mind--three thousand were convicted and saved, the true influence of God the Holy Spirit being manifested through him, not in "control" of those who heard him, but in a deep conviction in their consciences which turned them to God, not conquered by terror of God, but by a godly awe, which led them to godly sorrow and repentance.

The "falling upon" of the Spirit (Acts 2: 15), is therefore upon the spirit, clothing it with Divine light and power, and raising it into union of spirit with the glorified Lord in heaven; at the same time, baptizing the believer into one spirit with every other member of the mystical Body of Christ, joined to the Head in heaven.

All who are thus liberated and clothed in spirit are "made to drink of one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13)--the Holy Spirit--Who then, through the spirit capacity of each member of the Body, is able to distribute to each the gifts of the Spirit, for effective witness to the Risen Head, "dividing to each one severally even as He will." (See 1 Cor. 12: 4-11).

THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALING CHRIST IN HEAVEN
Another aspect of the true Baptism of the Spirit, having an important bearing upon the experiences of believers to-day, is to be found in the words of Peter on the Day of Pentecost, showing that the revelation of Christ given by the Holy Spirit at such a time, was of Christ as the glorified Man in heaven (Acts 2: 33, 34), and not in any vision or manifestation as a Person within.note 9 The same attitude to Christ as seated on the right hand of God, is uniformly to be seen in all the later records of the work of the Spirit in the Acts of the Apostles.note 10 The martyr Stephen sees the "Son of Man, standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7: 56), and Paul on the road to Damascus is arrested by a light from heaven (Acts 9: 3; 22: 6; 26: 13), out of which clothing of light the Ascended Lord spoke to him, saying, "I am Jesus . . . "

The Holy Spirit fills the human spirit of the believer, and communicates to him the very Spirit of Jesus, joining him in one spirit to the Spirit of the glorified Lord, imparting to him the life and nature of Christ for the building up of a new creation in His likeness (Rom. 8: 29; Heb. 2: 2-13). Instead of being turned inward to a self-centred apprehension of Christ, he is, by the influx of the Spirit of God into his spirit, lifted, so to speak, out of the narrow limit of himself,note 11 into a spiritual sphere where he finds himself one spirit with others who are joined to the Living Head forming one Body--or spirit organism--for the influx and outflow of the Spirit of the Lord.note 12

REVIVAL DEPENDS UPON TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF
THE BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT
This aspect of the true meaning of the Baptism of the Spirit and its spiritual effect, has an important bearing upon Revival, and the reason why Revival does not come. Revival is an OUTFLOW OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD THROUGH THE ORGAN OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT LIBERATED FOR HIS USE. When the influx of the Spirit takes place into the spirits of many believers, and finds outlet through all, the unity which was so marked in the early Church is seen, and the united power becomes strong enough to overflow through all these liberated ones to others.

But if the believer turns INWARD, either (1) through the pressure of opposition, (2) powers of darkness in the atmosphere, or (3) to worship and pray in a self-centred way; or is occupied in any degree with an inward experience, THE OUTFLOW OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HINDERED; the unity with other liberated believers is checked by an invisible barrier, which has come between, and the released spirit, which was kept dominant over soul and body so long as the man turned outward as a channel for the inflow and outflow of the Holy Spirit, sinks down into the soul-vessel, a "spirit in prison," so to speak, once more.note 13

"Revival" is then checked at its very birth, because believers who seek, and obtain a Baptism of the Spirit, do not clearly understand the conditions upon which the inflow was given, nor how to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in the purpose of His coming; which is to make them channels for the OUTFLOW of rivers of living water.

THE TRUE REVELATION OF CHRIST
The influx of the Spirit of God to a man's spirit, means love, joy, and liberty, buoyancy, light and power. It means a revelation of Christ as the Risen and Ascended Lord, which brings joy unspeakable and full of glory; and an intimate sense of His nearness in fellowship and communion, which makes the "I in you" a living power. It is at this time that ignorance is dangerous. If the believer does not understand that all this is an EFFECT WHICH IS INWARD AS A RESULT OF THE UNION WITH CHRIST IN HEAVEN, and an effect which will continue only so long as he abides in the right attitude toward the glorified Christ in heaven, he will turn into and sink down into the soul, i.e., into himself; and then the deceiving spirits will counterfeit in the sense-sphere the true experiences which he had IN SPIRIT through the incoming of the Holy Ghost.

These "experiences" then have little result beyond the circumference of the believer. When the true influx of the Holy Spirit to the spirit took place, there was (1) unity with others in the same spirit, (2) joy, (3) liberty of utterance, (4) power to witness to Christ, (5) effective and permanent results in the lives of others, and a heavenly "fire" from God in a burning, consuming white heat intensity of SPIRIT (Rom. 12: 11) in service to God. But when the sense counterfeit takes place,note 14 supernatural "experiences" frequently occur at the very same time that a wrong spirit is discernible, such as harshness, bitterness, pride, presumption, disunion, etc., showing either (1) that the "experiences" are not from the spirit, or (2) that the spirit is out of co-working with the Holy Spirit, and (3) the Holy Spirit is no longer able to bring forth the pure fruit of the Spirit through the believer's spirit and life.note 15

A
Aussiedler May 19, 2010

This is from "War on the Saints", right? Penn-Lewis is probably one of the best authorities on spiritual warfare and deception.

sermonindex May 19, 2010

Very good post. I particualarly liked the section "What is true Baptism." Speaking of my own Baptism in the Holy Spirit and what has followed since, I can say that I have never been "taken over." If I speak in tongues its not because something comes upon me and I no longer have control of the tongue, in fact quite the opposite.I have never been "slain in the spirit."

This probably captures the essence of being Baptized in the Spirit for me........

"The influx of the Spirit of God to a man's spirit, means love, joy, and liberty, buoyancy, light and power. It means a revelation of Christ as the Risen and Ascended Lord, which brings joy unspeakable and full of glory; and an intimate sense of His nearness in fellowship and communion, which makes the "I in you" a living power."

This is what I sense people are hungry and thirsty for. This is what effects our affections. The revelation that produces love and joy and liberty, the revelation of Christ risen and glorified brings unspeakable joy which ruins a man for this world. This intimate sense of His nearness, or as Duncan Cambell would say " an awareness of God, empowers men to speak with the power of God, the power that penetrtaes the hearts of men.

One example of how counterfiet can show up to quench the move of God. I have a friend who has spent over ten years in Nepal. As he was sharing , powerfully, with a crowd one day, a few people fell to the ground and started writhing and twitching and moaning. The crowd were impressed that something supernatural was taking place, and they were right. Only the source was not God. My friend ran to these people and shouted "Men and woman, this is not of God," as he pointed at the writers on the ground. He had some of his workers remove these people and then he told me a remarkable thing happened, the Spirit of God fell upon the crowd and he spoke with power and men were saved. Discernment is vital in warfare........brother Frank

R
rbanks May 19, 2010

I won’t have time to comment until later on but just wanted to add a few thoughts.

Although Lewis and others like Watchmen Nee are very deep in the Lord and one can learn a lot including myself, we also must use caution when gaining knowledge from their much writing.

I have been blessed tremendously from their writings but also realized that their writings are not on the same level as the holy scrip. We can not base everything they say as direct from God and we must also realize that we can even interpret what they have stated in a wrong way.

I believe we do need to properly be able to distinguish the difference between the spirit, soul, and body. We need too properly understand what is soulical and what is spiritual. We need to distinguish the difference of other spirits and the Spirit of God.

We can also become over watchful and even become fearful in trying to make sure that we are not emotional to the point of suppressing our spirit and losing the joy of the Holy Spirit.

My own experience of the Holy Spirit at one time was not what I thought the scriptures declared. I wanted so much to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit just like they did in Acts. I keep going on but deep down there was a little doubt and I always believed that God was going to show me where I was lacking.

Then one day after the death of a friend something traumatic happen in my that I won’t go into details right now but I began to seek God in prayer all during the day and night like never before. I didn’t know until later that on that Friday night between 11 and 12 o’clock being 10 days of seeking God continually that God was going to fill me with the Holy Spirit like nothing I had ever experience in my life.

I will never forget the experience, I was kneeling beside the bed praying as humbly as I have ever pray saying these words “Father I come to thee in the only name I know how to come, in the name of Jesus thy son and I come not because I’ve been a good boy but on the ground of the blood of Jesus” that is all I remember saying when all of a sudden I found myself standing with my hands raised up shouting so loud that a thought came in my mind of “Lord I’m going wake everybody in (city I was in) hollering like this. The next thing I notice as I looked down it looked like my feet and legs were going a thousand miles an hour. The next thought I had was to listen at what I was saying and it wasn’t English but it was flowing out my month fluently like a river. The next thing I did was stop and started praising God in English. I could go and on but for the next two months there were phenomenal things happening in my life.

I will stop for now but I didn’t learned to say a few words or repeat something someone said or even thoughts that arose in my mind like I have heard others say happened to them when they were baptized. I was filled to overflowing with the most wonderful feeling I have ever experience in my life and I found myself speaking and moving in the Holy Ghost and I was not expecting it at all because I was only seeking God.

I have no doubt whatsoever that I spoke in tongues as the Spirit of God gave the utterance. I have come to believe that there are a lot of people who have learned to say a few words thinking they have the baptism but no power in their lives. The true baptism with the Holy Ghost comes with power.

Later that very night I experience a spirit trying to deceive me and I rebuked it in the name of Jesus and it left me immediately. Praise be unto God.

I am really going to stop for now. Blessings to all!

A
Aussiedler May 20, 2010

I am wondering why christians still think that christian can't have demons, although the bible says it clearly and people like Penn-Lewis, Watchman Nee, Evan Roberts, John Bunyan, Martin Luther and others experienced and taught that.

sermonindex May 20, 2010

although the bible says it clearly

Scripture references please.

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Aussiedler May 28, 2010

In acts 4:31 it is written that "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost". Then next in this context happens the story about Ananias and Sapphira. They belonged to the multitude of believers who were filled with the spirit and "had all things in common" (Acts 4:32). Then a couple verses later, the Holy Spirit (through the mouth of Peter) says to Ananias:

(Act 5:3) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Although he belonged to the believers, it was possible for Satan to FILL HIS HEART. That means, he had Satan in his heart - obviously this decision that he made was due to a demonic influence, however you like to call that. Penn-Lewis made distinctions between having spirits around and within, here it is made clear, that Satan was IN his heart.

There are other scriptures:
Paul exhorts the real christians in Ephesus to "Neither give place to the devil" (Eph 4:27) If it would be impossible that a christian could be under the influence of a demon/devil (actually the devil is behind every demon, but since he can not be everwhere he sends his demons to do the work), why would the Holy Spirit write this in the Bible?

Then Paul tells us in 2. Corinthians 11:4 that it is possible for Christians to "receive another spirit" (which comes often along with receiving another gospel...)

Then in Mark 7, a heathen woman comes to Jesus, asking him to cast out a demon from her daugher. In this context of demon-deliverance, Jesus answers her: "Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs" (Mark 7:27) Jesus calls deliverance from demons "the Bread of the children" It is obvious, that getting free fomr demons is a privilege to christians first. This is also included in the word "salvation" (greek: soteria). This word has about 50 meanings, one of the most used meaning is "deliverance". Christians are at least 8 times exhorted, to finish the "salvation of the soul"...

Then there are more scriptures who are saying exactly the same, for example in James 3:14-16 the CHRISTIANS are exhorted to not have envy or strife, because this is "earthly, of the senses, demonic".

But if we are not believing ONE scripture, we will not believe all the other scriptures, because the reason is our stubborn heart, our unbelief. if we believe this scrpitures literally, it is very clear to see, that christians can be under the influence of demons.

I don't think it is possible to be FULLY DEMONIZED (totally under the control of demons) and be a Christian - this is not backed by this scriptures. but it is possible to be a christian and have another spirit that controls me in certain areas. I don't see a man in the bible who is so totally controlled by demons, that he as ABSOLUTELY NO OWN WILL. I think the most demonized man in the bible is the one mentioned in Mark 5, but even he has the power to fall before the feet of Jesus.

sermonindex May 28, 2010

Ok, we're talking about OPPRESSION, not possession. If that's the case then yes, this is quite possible and evident. To literally have a demon in you controlling you though, and having demons driven out of Christians, this is not Scriptural. If the distinction between oppression and possession is what you're explaining than we are in agreement on what the Bible says.

However, the reference from Mark 7 is completely out of context. Contextually, Christ was talking about HIS ministry to the Jews. There were no Spirit filled Christians at this time. He had not died, and the Holy Spirit was not given to men to live INSIDE of them. The children were Israel, not Christians. The bread was His light and His ministry, and thought yes, deliverance from the demonic was part of this, to say deliverance from possession IS the bread, and that the children here ARE Spirit filled Christians (which didn't even exist yet)who can have demons in them, is not only out of context, its REALLY reading something into it that isn't there. Just something to keep in mind.

The other references, though they can speak of oppression and influence, to say that they're speaking about a believer
having a demon actually IN them. Again, that's REALLY reaching.

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AbideinHim May 29, 2010

There is a distinct difference and purpose for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is given to all those that are truly saved, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes upon believers to empower them for ministry and service.

"Watchman Nee saw two aspects regarding the Holy Spirit: the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for life and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit for power. On the day the Lord rose from the dead, He breathed into the disciples the Holy Spirit (John 20:22). At that time the Holy Spirit entered into the disciples and indwelt them for the purpose of imparting life. But on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the disciples (Acts 2:4, 33). This pouring out of the Spirit was for the purpose of distributing power to the disciples. This second experience of the Spirit is what the Bible calls the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Most Christians do not see the difference between these two aspects of the Spirit. Watchman Nee, however, received a clear revelation concerning this distinction. Although he never spoke in tongues, he received repeated experiences of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit."

sermonindex May 29, 2010

What AbideinHim speaks is Biblical truth. Also to say though that the baptism is a second experience still falls a bit short. The baptism IS a second experience, but it is also a third, and a forth, and so on. It must be continual thing happening in believers lives. Having the Holy Spirit ON you is what empowers us for the ministry and service as AbideinHim stated.

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AbideinHim May 30, 2010

"If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? (Luke 11:11-13)

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." (James 1:17).

The Word of God admonishes us to "prove all things and hold fast to that which is good." We are to test the spirits, and to use spiritual discernment knowing that the enemy is both a deceiver and a counterfeiter. However, there are many Christians in the church today that have more faith and confidence in the devil to deceive them, than in the Lord to give them what they are asking for. There are some within the church that are quick to recognize what the devil is doing in times of revival, but totally miss out on that which the Lord is doing, because they are more demon conscious than God conscious.

I appreciate the warnings that Jessie Penn Lewis gives in "War on the Saints", but I also believe that the devil is given much more attention than what he deserves, and that our main focus and emphasis should be on the Lord, and not what the devil is doing.

If God is moving in revival power in any place, you can be sure that the devil will show up to attempt to discredit the work. In both the Azusa Street and Welsh revivals there were many manifestations that took place that were not of the Lord, however this does in no way lessen the impact that these revivals had on the Church and throughout the world as the fire spread.

If we are seeking the Lord for everything that He would freely give to us, we need not fear that he will give us a serpent, when we have asked for a fish. If we are speaking in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives us utterance, we need not fear that it is a tongue from the evil one. The gift of tongues as every other gift from God is a good gift, and when used for God's purposes will build up the Body of Christ.

Mike

sermonindex May 30, 2010

Please take the time to completely read this article. Thank you Greg for posting this. We are in a moment of ever darkening deception, and hundreds of Pastors and leaders are shepherding their flocks right into the sensual arms of an anti-Christ spirit.

Though written over 100 years ago, it seems timely...right out of Charisma magazine...[ if they would dare publish it...]

They [the new revivalists..] call it God, they have passionate things happen to them, yet there is never the real fruit of revival....a loving and holy life.

I could not help but think of Todd Bentley and Lakeland when reading this article. It also smacks the Catholic mystics as to what they really are, behind their twisted views of sacrifice and the ever deeper experiences they encounter.

I also think of IHOP, KC... who currently claim a "revival" [ refreshing of new wine..] is happening now, Rick Joyner, and the "prophets " of C. Peter Wagner and the NAR. It is a bizarre, sensual love fest with all of the oddities that Sister Penn-Lewis adeptly compares with her biblical discernment....BT

Why is the Church Powerless?
Ministry founder: U.S. Christians ‘absolutely not prepared’ for persecution.
The True Workings of God, and Counterfeits of Satan.
Posted on January 3, 2008 by pjmiller.


Sola dei Gloria...[ website..PJ Miller]

Some years ago, while working within a specific ministry, I read the book, War On The Saints, by Jessie Penn-Lewis, and found it to be one of the most informative books ever written on the workings of demonic spirits: within its pages many of the questions I had battled with, the answers were found. This was a woman, along with Evan Roberts, who witnessed the ‘good’ the ‘bad’ and the ‘ugly’ which occurred during the great Welsh Revival

This book was written as an out-come of their being present. If you’ve not read it, get a copy. I say that, rather then read the on-line copies only because later editions edited out much which is important…so far I have not come across a copy on-line which hasn’t been edited.

One section on-line which appears to be still intact is the comparisons given between the true workings of God, and counterfeits of satan…


“Knowledge and all discernment; so that ye may prove the things that differ, that ye may be sincere and void of offence. . . .” Phil. 1: 9,10,

True.
1. The Baptism, or Fullness of the Spirit: An influx of the Spirit of God into the human spirit, which liberates the spirit from the soul (Heb. 4: 12), so as to become a pliable organ or channel for the outflow of the Spirit through the believer, manifested in witness to Christ and in aggressive prayer service against the powers of darkness.

It is a true baptizing into the Body of Christ, and oneness with all the members of the Body. Its special mark and result is known in power to witness for Christ, and in conviction of sin in others, and their turning to God.

The highest manifestation of the Fullness of the Spirit is co-existent with the use of the faculties and self-control.

There is but one reception of the Holy Spirit: with many succeeding experiences, developments, or new crises, resultant on fresh acts of faith, or apprehension of truth; various believers having varied degrees of the same Infilling of the Spirit, according to individual conditions. The enduement of power for service is often a definite experience in many lives. Pages 50, 291, 297
Counterfeit.


1. Counterfeit workings of evil spirits may accompany a true reception of the Fullness of the Holy Spirit, if the believer “lets go” his mind into “blankness,” and yields his body up passively to supernatural power.[ Madame Guyon and the associated mystics..]BT

As a “blank mind” and “passive body” is contrary to the condition for use required by the Holy Spirit, and is the primary condition necessary for evil spirits to work, the anomaly is found in the Holy Spirit responding to the law of faith, and filling the man’s spirit, at the same time that evil supernatural powers respond to the law of passivity fulfilled in mind and body."
"
They then can produce in the senses manifestations, which seem to be the outcome of the Holy Spirit’s entry to the spirit.

The results of the counterfeit manifestations are varied, and wide in their ramifications, according to individual conditions. The abstract result is great “manifestations” with little real fruit; “possession” by evil spirits of the mind and body in varied degrees; a spirit of division from others, instead of unity, etc., etc. Pages 54, 97, 106, 107, 108.

True.
2. The Presence of God: Known in and by the human spirit, through the Holy Spirit. When He fills the atmosphere of a room the spirit of the man is conscious of it, not his senses. The faculties of those present are alert and clear, and they retain freedom of action. The spirit is made tender (Psa. 34: 18), and the will pliable to the will of God. All the actions of a person moved by the true and pure Presence of God are in accord with the highest ideal of harmony and grace. Pages 104, 107.

Counterfeit
2. The counterfeit of the Presence of God is mainly felt upon the body, and by the physical senses, in conscious “fire,” “thrills,” etc. The counterfeit of the “Presence” in the atmosphere is felt by the senses of the body, as “breath,” “wind,” etc., whilst the mind is passive or inactive.

The person affected by this counterfeit “presence” will be moved almost automatically to actions he would not perform of his own will, and with all his faculties in operation. He may not even remember what he has done when under the “power” of this “presence,” just as a sleep-walker knows nothing of his actions when in that state. The inaction of the mind can often be seen by the vacant look in the eyes. Pages 109, 112, 124, 128, 130.

True
3. God in and with man in the spirit: John 14: 23. The Father in heaven is realized to be a real Father (Gal. 4: 6), the Son a real Saviour, the Holy Spirit a real Person; manifested as One in the spirit of the believer, by the Holy Spirit: with resulting effects as in Rom. 8: 9-11. Pages 103, 130.
Counterfeit
3. Evil spirit’s counterfeit, as the occasion serves them, each Person of the Trinity, and can thus obtain access, and become in and with a man in manifestations given to the senses, in which the real spirit-sense may have no part. Pages 52, 103, 104, 105, 108.

True
4. Christ manifested in the believer by His Spirit, so that He is known as a Living Person on the Throne in heaven, and the believer joined in spirit to Him there, with the result that Christ’s life and nature is imparted to him, forming and building up in him a “new creation,” (Gal. 1: 16; 4: 19. Col. 1: 27), the believer growing up into Him in all things.note 1 Pages 103, 107, 126, 127, 289.
Counterfeit
4. Christ apparently manifested inwardly as a “Person,” to whom the soul prays, or with whom he holds communion, yet there is no real evidence of the expression of the Divine nature, or true growth of the Christ life, with a deepening fellowship with the Christ in heaven.

On the contrary the Christ in heaven seems far away. The counterfeit centres and ends in an “experience” which keeps the person introverted or self-centred (spiritually). Page 107. Cf. pp. 289, 290, 291.

True
5. Consciousness of God: Felt in the spirit, and not by the physical senses. Pages 107, 108.
Counterfeit
5. “Consciousness” of “God” in bodily sensations, which feed the “flesh” and overpower the true spirit-sense. Pages 106, 130.

True
6. The Holiness of God: when realized by the believer produces worship and godly awe, with a hatred of sin. On the ground of the Blood of Calvary God draws near to men, seeking their love, but His presence does not terrorize. Page 289.
Counterfeit
6. Evil spirits counterfeit this by giving a terror of God, which drives men away from Him, or forces them into actions of slavish fear, apart from the use of the mind, and volition, in glad voluntary obedience to Him. Page 143.

True
7. Surrender to God: Of spirit, soul and body, is a simple yielding or committal to Him of the whole man, to do His will and be at His service. God asks the full co-operationnote 2 of the man in the intelligent use of all his faculties. Rom. 6: 13. Page 70.
Counterfeit
7. Passive yielding of spirit, soul and body to supernatural power, to be moved automatically, in passive, blind obedience, apart from the use of volition or mind. Evil spirits desire “control” of a man, and his passive submission to them. Pages 68, 69.

True
8. Fellowship with the sufferings of Christ: The result of faithful witness for Him, and in such “suffering,” the joy of the Spirit breaks forth in spirit. (Acts 5: 41). The fruit of true conformity to Christ’s death in the “fellowship of His sufferings” is seen in life to others, and growth in tenderness of spirit, and Christ-likeness in character. 2 Cor. 4: 10-12. Page 89.


Counterfeit
8. “Suffering” caused by evil spirits is characterized by a fiendish acuteness, and is fruitless in result–the victim being hardened instead of mellowed by it. The demons can cause anguished suffering in spirit, soul or body. “Oppression” manifested in abnormal suffering, may be the fruit of (unconscious) acceptance of sufferings caused by evil spirits, often under the name of the “will of God.” Pages 88, 89, 90.

True
9. Trusting God: A true faith given of God in the spirit, having its origin in Him, without effort reckoning upon Him to fulfil His written Word. Co-existent with the full use of every faculty in intelligent action. “Faith” is a fruit of the Spirit and cannot be forced. Gal. 5: 22. 2 Cor. 4: 13. Page 275.

Counterfeit
9. “Trusting evil spirits” comes about through trusting blindly some supernatural words, or revelations, supposed to come from God, which produces a forced “faith,” or faith beyond the believer’s true measure, the result being actions which lead into paths of trial never planned by God. Pages 129, 135, 274, 275.

True
10. Reliance upon God: An attitude of the will, of trust and dependence upon God, taking Him at His word, and depending upon His character of faithfulness. Page 127.

Counterfeit
10. Reliance upon evil spirits means a passive leaning upon supernatural help and experience, which draws the person away from faith in God Himself, and from active co-action with Him. Page 143.

True
11. Communion with God: Fellowship in the Spirit with Christ in the glory as one spirit with Him. The consciousness of this is in the spirit (John 4: 24) only, and not in “feelings” in the senses. See for conditions of true communion with God, 1 John 1: 5-7. Page 291.


Counterfeit
11. “Communion” with evil spirits may take place by retiring within to enjoy sense communion, in “exquisite feelings” which absorbs and renders the soul incapable of the duties of life. The “flesh” is fed by this spurious spiritual “communion” as really as in grosser ways. Pages 124, 125, 155.

True
12. Waiting on God: The spirit in restful co-operation with the Holy spirit, waiting God’s time to act, and a waiting for Him to fulfil His promises. The true waiting upon God can be co-existent with the keenest activity of mind and service. Page 62-63.
Counterfeit
12. A “waiting for the Spirit to come,” in hours of prayer, which brings those who “wait” into passivity, which at last reaches a point of “séance” conditions, followed by an influx of lying spirits in manifestations. Pages 62, 63.

True
13. Praying to God: Having access to the Holiest of all, on the ground of the Blood (Heb. 10: 19). Penetrating in spirit through the lower heavens to the Throne of Grace. Heb 4: 14-16. True “prayer” is not directed toward God as within the believer, but to a Father in heaven, in the Name of the Son, by the Holy Spirit. Page 126.
Counterfeit
13. Praying to evil spirits comes about by praying to “God” in the atmosphere, or within, or possibly to “pictures” of God in the mind; instead of approaching the Throne of Grace according to Heb. 10: 19. Pages 95, 130.

True
14. Asking God: An act of the will in simple faith, making a transaction with God in heaven, on the ground of His written Word. “Answers to prayer” from God are usually so unsensational and so unobtrusive that the petitioner often does not recognize the answer. Cf. pages 249, 276, 279.
Counterfeit
14. “Asking” evil spirits, by speaking to some supernatural presence in, or around the person. The “answers” are generally “dramatic,” sensational, calculated to over-awe the person, and make him feel he is a wonderful recipient of favour from on high. By this means the demons gain control over him. Pages 118, 119, 142.

True
15. God speaking: Through His Word, by His Spirit, in the spirit and conscience of the man, illuminating the mind to understand the will of the Lord. Page 136.
Counterfeit
15. Evil spirits speaking, wither puffing up, accusing, condemning or confusing the person, so that the is bewildered or distracted and cannot exercise his reason or judgment. The “speaking” of accusing spirits resembles the “thinking,” or speaking to oneself, when the words are not uttered audibly. Pages 170, 171. Also “Listening” on pages 119, 125, 136, 142, 143

A
Aussiedler Jun 4, 2010

There are so many things going on in modern Christianity, that are totally demonic and from the pit of hell.

And there are a lot of things going on outside Christianity, that are also demonic and straight out of hell.

In case someone did not notice these 2 facts, he has to read the bible (Matthew 24 for example) or just go one of this discussion boards here in sermonindex. But after realizing that the things are not so wonderful as they should be, we should stop focusing on what the devil does in the world (and in christendom) and start to focus on the things God wants to do and CAN DO in HIS people.

I realize that many users on sermonindex are focusing and lamenting on what the devil does. I think through always focusing on the negative we are giving the devil an attention and "honour" that he should NEVER EVER get from any christian. Yes, it is true, that he does many things, but our whole focus should be on Christ and not on the works of the devil. If we have the devil (or his works) continually before our eyes, we will become hopeless and disapointed and our faith in what God can do will decrease.

But if we have Jesus always before our eyes (like David did, or like it is written in Hebrews) then our whole attitude towards christianity and the world will change. There are many examples of believers (Brother Lawrence, Guyon, etc) who lived among bad circumstances, but experienced God on a tremendous level, because their whole focus was Jesus.

But today most of us christians are like "vultures" who are looking for something "dead". We are looking for the negative with the eye of a vulture instead having single eyes like a dove, that are totally focused on Jesus.

sermonindex Jun 4, 2010

I totaly agree Aussiender. When you listen to some people speak, all they talk about are demons and Satan. Its almost the entirety of their conversation. They are completely without joy, joy is a foriegn notion to the negative world in which they travel. You know a man or a woman has reached a certain level of Christian maturity when, instead of speaking about themselves all the time, whether to tell us how much they know, or how holy they are or how vile they are, they speak of Christ and the beauty of "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world." For "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."

When God shines a light into your heart and you experience the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus then all you really want to do is talk about Him. To magnify Him, to lift Him up, yet sadly we have many who only want to talk about themselves or the devil or demons. It is when we lift Him up that men are drawn to Him. The death of self is a very painful thing. Because even when your telling people what a vile worm that you are, the conversation is still about you. We have to take our eyes off of ourselves and fix them on Jesus. Yes, press into Him, go deeper into the heart of God. I believe that the Holy Spirit dropped this phrase into my heart this morning "How can men be so close to the Word of God, yet so far from the heart of Christ?" .........brother Frank

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