Pastor Rick Warren has a message for the some 20,000 people who attend Saddleback Church: If you want to remain a passive Christian, find another church.
During his weekend sermon, Warren laid out a plan for Saddleback's next "Decade of Destiny" in which he's anticipating exponential growth. And the plan has no room for fake Christians, he indicated.
If the Bride will return to her first
love, if she will forsake unrighteousness
and worldly desires, if she will clothe
herself in the holiness of the One who
bought her with HIS own life's blood;
then we will see the remnant of the body
of Christ restored!!
Rick Warren is noble in his attempts. Programs is never the answer, but they will try to make it happen. We all need to wait on God prayerfully. I hope they will find a place of true repentance where our face meets the floor. You never know though, God hasn't cast anyone off, there is always hope as long as we have breath.
Now THIS is especially precious. First he raises and grooms them, then he tells them they're no longer welcome in his church. Purpose Driven's fruits ARE the passive fake Christians. It's like a father teaching his children to lie, cheat, and steal, and then condemning them for doing so, and saying they're no children of his.
On the bright side, at least now he has a ten year plan. I'm so grateful that in the Scriptures it shows that God is subject to our itinerary. As long as we have the goal, it would seem God has no choice but to act.....
Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, LORD; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place. (1 Sam 3:9, KJV).
I am mindful of this passage tonight. I am reminded of the significance laid forth even through Eli, whose house was guilty of much iniquity: "If he call thee".
I have been troubled by a generation that has lost a sense of calling, and yet will implore titles and positions of authority without every learning to "lay down in [his] place". How we have failed to listen as Paul listened, watch like Peter, or wait like John.
I'm convinced that if we fail to come and find [our place] before the Lord both individually and corporately, our accomplishments are carnal and worldly however spiritual they appear. Not because our intentions were evil per se, but because they lack both the reality and authenticity of Christ's glory.
For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ.
I am also convinced that if we do come to [our place] before him as Samuel did, we will find his grace sufficient in all things despite our weaknesses and even our ignorance. This is the beauty of Christ. He can use any type of church large or small, should they yield with reckless abandon to Christ and His Cross.
It's a precious thing to be lent to the Lord like Samuel. May it be said of me that I was "lent to the Lord as long as i live". It shall be a far greater treasure to Christ than any endeavor of my own, and therefore the pleasure of my heart.
Therefore also I have lent him to the LORD; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the LORD. And he worshipped the LORD there. (1 Sam 1:28)
"Now THIS is especially precious. First he raises and grooms them, then he tells them they're no longer welcome in his church."
Just gave me my chuckle of the day!!
Firstly, Rick Warren is a consummate humanist, and his concept of pleasing God is not the same as the bible....trusting in the blood of Jesus and repenting unto holiness.
In this quote below, we see the inclusiveness; Universalism, that drives Warren's perverted gospel that probably includes everyone on the earth that wants "God."
Warren speaking;
"In his book Sacred Pathways, Gary [Thomas] identifies nine of the ways people draw near to God: Naturalists are most inspired to love God out-of-doors, in natural settings. Sensates love God with their senses and appreciate beautiful worship services that involve their sight, taste, smell and touch, not just their ears.
Traditionalists draw closer to God through rituals, liturgies, symbols, and unchanging structures. Ascetics prefer to love God in solitude and simplicity. Activists love God through confronting evil, battling injustices, and working to make the world a better place.
Caregivers love God by loving others and meeting their needs. Enthusiasts love God through celebration. Contemplatives love God through adoration. Intellectuals love God by studying with their minds" (p. 103).
"The purpose driven life."...Rick Warren
This is new age anti-Christ; anti blood dribble from the siver anointed forked tongue! Nothing of the truth gospel here.
In his inaugural address/prayer of President Obama, he tried to bind the name of Jesus with the Moslem Messiah, ISA, as one and the same.
Muslims do believe that Isa was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa , also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified.
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself,
but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you."
John 16-12:14
Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).
In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) asks his followers to abide by."
"Rick Warren Tells Passive, Fake Christians to Find Another Church."...original post.
"Pastor Rick Warren has a message for the some 20,000 people who attend Saddleback Church: If you want to remain a passive Christian, find another church.
During his weekend sermon, Warren laid out a plan for Saddleback's next "Decade of Destiny" in which he's anticipating exponential growth. And the plan has no room for fake Christians, he indicated."
This has been going on for several years now. Christians in the churches are asked to sign a covenant not to question the Pastor's intent, and commit to doing; mobilizing to Warren's radical social engineering projects, where he sees the churches, mosques, and synagogues [ all under one God...who is the same for all] as the regional foundations to distribute positive spirituality.
Several churches have been split through this takeover....a chapter [day] of his book is devoted to it.
If you don't sign on, it's time to move on.Many don't, and leave...
He's weeding out the church, OK....Those who believe the real gospel must obey his agenda, or leave.
Anti-Christ....in place of Christ.
Pastor Rick Warren has a message for the some 20,000 people who attend Saddleback Church: If you want to remain a passive Christian, find another church.During his weekend sermon, Warren laid out a plan for Saddleback's next "Decade of Destiny" in which he's anticipating exponential growth. And the plan has no room for fake Christians, he indicated.
Hate to say it, but Pastor Warren confuses me sometimes. Sort of wishy-washy if you ask me.
He's weeding out the church, OK....Those who believe the real gospel must obey his agenda, or leave.
So do you think that this message and plan has anything to do with Saddleback Church being broke? A Call to the Tithers maybe?
Wonderful post, Winthrup7.
So very true.
God Bless.
Nellie
"I'm convinced that if we fail to come and find [our place] before the Lord both individually and corporately, our accomplishments are carnal and worldly however spiritual they appear. Not because our intentions were evil per se, but because they lack both the reality and authenticity of Christ's glory.
For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ."
There is something in this very similar to what stood out to me in reading John 5:41-44 the other day. Almost immediately another passage had come to mind, from Isaiah 49:1-9.
The Lord Jesus in this passage from John says that He does not recieve honour from men. In this, He does not mean that man cannot or should not honour Him, God is and can be honoured by men(1Sa 2:30), but here, this means chiefly, that the Lord Jesus did not take honour from men into His bosom, He did not treasure it in His heart, and keep it as a means of VALIDATING His ministy.
The Lord Jesus speaks here in this passage from John, but He also is speaking(I believe) in the paassage from Isaiah:
"Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God."
Yet surely His judgment is from God. God is THE ONLY measure of sucess and obedience is the Christian's gold standard.
As it comes back to ministry, the Lord Jesus makes a staggering statement in saying to them, how can they believe, which recieve honour, ONE FROM ANOTHER, and do not seek the honour that comes from God alone.
It may be at times that all of us have a mixture of motives in our service to God. I certainly have, and that is to my shame, not good.
But when this sort of thing is on the level of what Brothertom is talking about, the consequences are staggering.
"...a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ"
"Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee."
I am somewhat concerned with the feedback on this post. If a brother repents, showing evidence of repentance by amending his ways, should we not receive him? If this brother has been in error doctrinally in the past, and he repents before God and his people, is he not doing right? It seems that many of you are heaping upon him unrighteous slander based upon what he has written or said in the past. Is this not an attempt on the part of Mr. Warren to correct some error? Is this a cause for believers to scoff or rejoice? Mr. Warren's words will be proved true or false by how he begins to lead his church in the days ahead. Brothers and sisters, give space for this man to repent, and calm your critical spirits. "Love hopes all things".
While I would be the first to readily accept a man's sincere repentance and rejoice over it, based just on what I've read from the current report alone, and even the fact that he has a "new and improved plan for the decade" would throw serious doubt on that actually being the case. That being said however, my discernment has been off in the past, and I'm willing (and hoping) this to be the case for this as well. Any man can turn over a new leaf for Christ, but the fruits shall speak for themselves in due time. I'm hopeful, though honestly not optimistic.
It would seem that this is a good thing, however after studying many revivals, the only thing that works is intercession and example. The pastor must lead the way. He must be impassioned in every area of his life. He must lay between the porch and altar himself and the sheep will follow. No amount of rebuke will make up for this. He would be better off taking those with the same vision into the closet and crying out until the spirit of repentence comes on those present, then it will spread like the fire of God always does. Telling people to leave will fix nothing. Example, like William Seymore, Duncan Campbell and others will.
I only wish more pastors had the courage
to say if you don't want to be a committed,
whole-hearted Christian; please leave this
church!! AMEN! AMEN AGAIN!!
For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ.
Excellent post winthrup,the quote above really struck me as profound in our day.
It is this ambition and pride that is such a hinderance to the power of God being manifest in the church today. May the Lord deliver us from needing the acceptance of men, the lust for success, and reputation. Let my name be forgotten, Christ's name exalted.
I am reminded of something A.W. Tozer wrote in the introduction to His book The Pursuit of Man. What he says about his book can be equally said of any ministry, oh how we need more signposts...
"The worst thing a book can do for a Christian is to leave him with the impression that he has received from it anything really good; the best it can do is to point the way to the Good he is seeking. The function of a good book is to stand like a signpost directing the reader toward the Truth and the Life. That book serves best which early makes itself unnecessary, just as a signpost serves best after it is forgotten, after the traveler has arrived safely at his desired haven. The work of a good book is to incite the reader to moral action, to turn his eves toward God and urge him forward. Beyond that it cannot go."
In Christ,
Ron
Amen I agree Ron, I have preached against this attitude at my church before. Giving a very breif summary of Pragmatist in the modern church searching for results numbers and church growth, rather than searching for Christ Jesus.
I agree with Chris Rosebrough.
http://www.extremetheology.com/purpose_driven_critique/
i believe a safety recall is in order for all Purpose Driven products. ..and believe me, I'd be very thankful if Rick Warren renounced all his products and apologized to all those that driven out of their churches because of the purpose driven movement.
There is much healing that needs to take place.
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