Special Bulletin by Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and Jack Deere re: Paul Cain

sermonindex Oct 20, 2004

A brother shared this with me and I thought it would be good to share because they are making it public on their site I think its ok to do so here. Pray for Paul Cain and others who are abusing the giftings of God by living in willful sin. This shows how dangerous it is to follow people telling the mind of the Lord but not living like the Lord.---October 19, 2004Paul Cain has been used mightily by the Lord to touch many lives in our times. He is esteemed by many around the world as a major prophetic voice and as a spiritual father. It would be hard to estimate the number who have been healed, delivered, or saved through his ministry. We have especially benefited from his friendship and ministry in too many ways to count. It is therefore with great sorrow that we publish the following.In February 2004, we were made aware that Paul had become an alcoholic. In April 2004, we confronted Paul with evidence that he had recently been involved in homosexual activity. Paul admitted to these sinful practices and was placed under discipline, agreeing to a process of restoration which the three of us would oversee. However, Paul has resisted this process and has continued in his sin. Therefore, after having exhausted the first two steps of Matthew 18:15-17, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church. Our sincere hope remains to see Paul restored. We are deeply committed to Galatians 6:1, which states, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted.” We do not believe that Paul has committed anything that places him beyond the grace of God. We are hopeful that there are those who are more spiritual and wiser than we have been who can help Paul through a process of restoration in which we failed. We also remain open and desirous of helping Paul with his restoration process in any way we can. If restored, we believe that Paul can once again have an extraordinary ministry and be a significant blessing to the body of Christ.We apologize to the body of Christ for our lack of discernment in promoting Paul’s ministry while he had these significant strongholds in his life. We failed to see them until this year. It is also a mistake to assume that others who were close to Paul or worked with him shared these same problems. We also do not feel that this should in any way negate or reduce the great benefit that Paul’s ministry has been to so many in the past. We hope that Paul can yet be restored and used again for the glory of God in the wonderful way that so many of us have been blessed to see in the past. With our deepest regrets and sincerity,Rick Joyner Jack DeereMike Bicklehttp://www.morningstarministries.org/pages/special_bulletins/SB_Current.html

M

moreofHim Oct 21, 2004

I also received this email. I didn't want to post it because I didn't want to start anything or start gossip really. My first thought is that I was not really surprised, but again surprised at the way they handled it. My heart goes out to all of the people who have listened to this man's words "from the Lord" and teachings while his heart was in sin. This is so dangerous. Though I feel we are all able to fall at times, those who are mouthpieces for the Lord have a huge responsiblity to keep their hearts pure. The word cannot be pure that filters through an impure heart.I myself, have many times prayed that the Lord would never let me speak on His behalf if my heart was not right. I could not bear the idea of thinking that I might deceive anyone by my "words' that may be corrupted because of sin. This is my worst night mare.I cannot imagine that the others who are involved with Mr. cain could trust his teachings and words from the Lord when it has not come from a pure vessel, a surrendered vessel. This is agonizing to me and the consequences will not be minimal.I don't think that we should take a "look, see what they really are" , or "oh, I am so glad I am not one of them" because this is what the pharisee said-- but I do hope that God's justice is served in this situation for all involved, for the sake of God's name and glory.I hope people realize that God's mouthpieces are few and far between and not for sale in anyway shape or form. Maybe this will turn the "prophetic community" upside down. I pray that it does. I pray they do not come to his defense and make excuses, for the Lord's word is nothing to play around with. I pray that it causes them to question many things. I know many of these people and the people who follow their teachings, are very well meaning- but sin is sin. God demands purity and Christ-likeness in the people He uses.Can I just add that as to the question of who are the 3 most influential teachers/preachers who have influenced your life_ I say a big fat NONE. God alone has been my teacher and anyone else that has come along side and I have listened -it is just because they are confirming what the Lord has shown me Himself. This is why the Lord is competent to teach His own people and should be our source. "Cursed is the man who trusts in man (and man's ways and teachings)"-"Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord". I don't mean to sound condescending and flipant, I am just agonized that people don't look to the Lord Himself more for their wisdom- man is infallible, man is not perfect. Let us get our wisdom and direction from the true Source. People should not follow any man- only Jesus.May the Lord get glory from all that is done. May He be glorified in the earth and in our hearts. May we be satisfied in Him enough to keep our hearts pure and obey Him. May we be satisfied in Him and Him alone. In Him, Chanin

sermonindex Oct 21, 2004

Though I feel we are all able to fall at times, those who are mouthpieces for the Lord have a huge responsiblity to keep their hearts pure. The word cannot be pure that filters through an impure heart.Yes thats so true Chanin! great comments. I really feel the same as you on this.. what a responsibility for each Christian especially those that speak the oracles of God to men. And I love that verse in Isaiah "trust no man" God showed it to me very early on in my christian life and it cemented itself in my heart.

D

dohzman Oct 21, 2004

I never really followed any big ministry myself personally except Wilkerson's.I believe that The Lord wants the body of Christ to wake up to the reality that it's a body of believers who make the ministry.As for edification whle God places certain giftings "in" the body they aren't always "in" the pulpit.The more we as individual believers learn to go directly to Jesus as our primary source for all things that pretain to life and godiliness and learn to properly discern the gifting from the vessel through whom it flows---especially in charismatic circles----the less frequent it will be that our leadership will fail since they no long will be the focus of everyones attention. In America if satan can take out one leader he can effectively take down thousands of believers. We as believers have a responsibility to lift Jesus up and hold our leaders accountable but keep them on the same level--as it were-- that we are.No higher or no lower.Rember Jesus said the greatest among you will be servant of all.Servant.We are all called to be servants.I believe the last move of God's Spirit in America is going to be in the local churches and spill over into the world around them. I will pray for brother Paul Cain EZE 33:13 none of his righteous deeds will be rembered----used the same way that God says your sins I will rember no more.This Brother needs serious pray now and the Almighty God of the Ages will through Jesus Christ bring him to a godly sorrow and repentance.Amen.

C

crsschk Oct 21, 2004

Can I just add that as to the question of who are the 3 most influential teachers/preachers who have influenced your life_ I say a big fat NONE. God alone has been my teacher and anyone else that has come along side and I have listened -it is just because they are confirming what the Lord has shown me Himself. This is why the Lord is competent to teach His own people and should be our source. "Cursed is the man who trusts in man (and man's ways and teachings)"-"Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord". I don't mean to sound condescending and flipant, I am just agonized that people don't look to the Lord Himself more for their wisdom- man is infallible, man is not perfect. Let us get our wisdom and direction from the true Source. People should not follow any man- only Jesus.Hi sis, moved my reply over to another new post as it seemed best: 1Jo 2:27 "no need that anyone should teach you"

S

Spitfire Oct 21, 2004

I'm sorry to have to do this, but I've got so much stirring in me from reading 3 different threads, that it's all running together now. Ok, I read the thread about the Rick Joyner bulletin. I read the thread about hidden sins of the heart, and I read Mike's new thread about having need that no man teach you. I am beside myself ( and it's probably obvious by my ramblings.) It seems obvious to me, especially when I consider what's happening in my own spiritual walk, that God has drawn a line in the spirit. We cannot continue in sin, PERIOD. He is calling his Bride to holiness. I hope that I am not being presumptuous in doing this, but I received a word from God for the Body of Christ in May of this year. I would like to post it here, if I may...but first, let me say, that I find myself in the warning category...read on, you'll see what I mean...A Word from God to the Churchgiven on May 18, 2004I say, the Wind of my Spirit is about to blow across this continent, says the Lord. This is my warning and my decree and my promise. The warning is to those who have been lukewarm in their seeking. The decree is to my enemy, here, to let my people go!The promise is to those who have submitted themselves to me and cried out to me that I will pour out my spirit in these Last Days.I say to those recieving the warning, put on your sackcloth and ashes. Rend your garments. Weep and mourn and seek me with your whole heart and I will breathe on your dead bones. Don't kid yourself any longer. You have thought that you were rich, but the truth is, you are in abject spiritual poverty. You have thought that you were fully clothed, but the truth is, you are naked. Pray that I will have mercy upon you and open the eyes of your understanding. Humble yourselves before me until you feel the wind of my Spirit. If something inside you wiggles or jumps as a witness to this word, then lay yourself before me as an offering and I will consume the sacrifice, says the Lord.Now, to my enemies, you Jezebel, who has intimidated and held my people, I say, "It's over! Your time is up! Release your position, now!" Blow, Wind, upon my enemies for destruction!Blow, Wind, upon those lukewarm to bring division!Blow, Wind upon my people to bring the Last Days promised revival!To you who believe me, I will release a new wine and I will make you a new wineskin to contain it. You will be changed in this hour! There will be no more looking back. Look not, back! Flee to the spiritual mountains, the high places which you have dreamed about! Run! Run now, to me! Remember not the former days of thy spiritual youth. Run to me, now! We have a work to do. Fear not. Do not be dismayed, for I will take you there! I will not leave you. Don't look at the appearance of anything which opposes me. Look always to me and I will carry you over the top.I believe the enemy called Jezebel is the spirit of religion which has held back the church here in North America. The reign of this spirit is over. God has commanded it. The time has come for the church to arise from her slumber. Anyone continuing to sleep will be found locked out of the wedding celebration. Oh God, help your people, now, In Jesus Name.

R

Rahman Oct 21, 2004

Spitfire our Lord said in His word to you;"If something inside you wiggles or jumps as a witness to this word, then lay yourself before me as an offering and I will consume the sacrifice, says the Lord".Concider me crispy! ... One can put to flight 1,000 ... two can put to flight 10,000 ... i touch and agree with you ... in Jesus all conquering name! .... Amen

G

Gideons Oct 21, 2004

Yes Dian, Jesus is coming back for his bride, pure and unblemished. It's a call to seek Jesus and Him alone. That message is coming at me from all directions.I thought about the passage below regarding my own spiritual state. It's from the Message Bible.(Psa 106:43) Over and over God rescued them, but they never learned-- until finally their sins destroyed them.(Psa 106:44) Still, when God saw the trouble they were in and heard their cries for help,(Psa 106:45) He remembered his Covenant with them, and, immense with love, took them by the hand.(Psa 106:46) He poured out his mercy on them while their captors looked on, amazed.

R

ravin Oct 21, 2004

It's not gossip if it's true and persented in the right manner. If we can do nothing for the man but pray then lets start lifting him up to the lord. what is done in the dark will be bought to the light. The Lord and Holy Spirit is cleaning the house of god, it starts at the altar of God's temple. Let us pray about the work God is doing; that his will be done.

R

revival9 Oct 21, 2004

Help Guys--I'm having problems with this thread. Not the part about exposing Paul Cain's grievous sins. May he repent and seek God in brokenness. As we all must do, me included, thanks be to God Who forgives and cleanses....But that Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and John Deere are being held up as any kind of authority for the church.... here? On SI?Do you know these guys and their ministries? This is part of the 'prophetic' crowd that is heavily influencing all of Christianity right now, especially Arizona where I live. I have major questions about promoting them, even in this small way. They're off into questionable things, IMHO. My Big Gripe: Who appointed these guys to be prophets for the whole church? Why do so many people hang on their every word, like it's something from God Himself? Please look honestly at who they are, how they're living, what they're doing and teaching. Most of it's so hokey and shallow, I want to cry. Mrs. Fred

sermonindex Oct 21, 2004

But that Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and John Deere are being held up as any kind of authority for the church.... here? On SI?I really don't agree with those men either mrs fred, I think its all in confusion that movement in christianity and is leading many astray. This article just shows the inconsistency and the danger of all that is happening. I dont trust any of these guys farther then I could thrown them. Lets get back to the word of God.

P

PastorEdP Oct 21, 2004

And that is the bottom line, Brother Greg. I couldn't agree more. Self-declared prophets make me nervous because I have seen too many charitans at work. Where these people are fallable, the Word Of God can always be trusted. Look not to others for the definitive Word, brothers and sisters, but to Christ.

S

Spitfire Oct 22, 2004

Self-declared prophets make me nervous because I have seen too many charitans at work. PastorEd, who, exactly, is supposed to "declare" someone a prophet? Are you saying there aren't any in the body of Christ today? Having listened to alot of Rick Joyner's teachings, I believe you all better watch who you speak against. This man is full of humility. I understand he has people around him who aren't, but he is. We wouldn't want a she-bear to come out of the woods, now would we?

S

Spitfire Oct 22, 2004

I dont trust any of these guys farther then I could thrown them.Greg, what's that about? Have you listened to any of Rick Joyner's teachings?

P

PastorEdP Oct 22, 2004

God chooses His prophets, Spitfire, not man. There are no self-appointed prophets. And a prophet, if he is truly of God, is right 100 percent of the time. So bring on the "she-bear." I'm wearing the full armor of God. If I believed everything Rick Joyner declared, I could no longer believe that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I think, therefore, that I will stick to the Word of God and make sure that those I harken to have stuck to it as well.

sermonindex Oct 22, 2004

who, exactly, is supposed to "declare" someone a prophet? Are you saying there aren't any in the body of Christ today? No I think PastorEd is saying that being a prophet of God is self evident and its God that clearly calls a prophet and it will be somewhat obvious to all. For someone to say im a prophet and speak as a prophet but be speaking from his own mind that is problematic, many chapters in jeremiah deal with that sort of problem. There definetly has to be a prophetic voice somewhere but God doesn't always choose to trumpet it out int the open. Prophets are men that are consumed by God and follow His directions. Greg, what's that about? Have you listened to any of Rick Joyner's teachings?I have heard enough things from him and others around him to stay well clear. Just taking a quick look at his website: www.eaglestar.org shows the very dubious nature of this man in his books, articles, teachings: "overcoming the spirit of poverty" is there such a thing preaching by the apostle paul? God forbid. And what prophet sells land: http://www.eaglestar.org/pages/realestate/property_map.html Read hebrews 11 they were destitute, afflicted, they had no place to lay their head, they were not worthy of this world, please count me with this crowd and I will forfit the comfortable house on the property of a prophet.

M

moreofHim Oct 22, 2004

This is what i feared might happen under this thread. please let's just preach Christ, and if we do, then the false will be exposed. This is not an opportunity to smear. We will all be held accountable for our words and actions, let us each worry about our own words and actions. Let's focus on Christ and what's is true than focus on what is not true and not Christ-like. The more we preach the true Christ, the more the false shows itself.God Himself is exposing all that is unacceptable. I think He is capable of doing His job. Let's keep our eyes (and tongues) on all that is good and pure and of good report. Believe me, I am speaking to myself here as well.In His love, Chanin

S

Spitfire Oct 22, 2004

No I think PastorEd is saying that being a prophet of God is self evident and its God that clearly calls a prophet and it will be somewhat obvious to all.This makes absolutely no sense to me. What do you mean "self-evident"? What do you mean "somewhat obvious to all"?I have heard enough things from him and others around him to stay well clear.Have you listened to any of his teachings? I just think it is not wise to speak against someone you don't know.

sermonindex Oct 22, 2004

God Himself is exposing all that is unacceptable. I think He is capable of doing His job. Let's keep our eyes (and tongues) on all that is good and pure and of good report. Believe me, I am speaking to myself here as well.Very true sister Chanin you know for the most part God has called me at SermonIndex to let the true light shine and not to name the darkness or to point fingers at it. But sometimes there is a time and place to lead people right and point out an obvious dangerous spiritual situation. What I quoted about Rick Joyner is something that should make people thing twice. I don't want to quote too many details but it should be obvious that people like Kenneth Copeland and himself that teach prosperity doctrines are in falsehood and need to come to the truth of the gospel. With that said you are very right Chanin that there really most of that time needs to be a focus soley on Christ but wouldn't you agree that sometimes the sad fact of false teachers needs to be pointed out and exposed? I see that in the bible where there is a small emphasis on that and I should follow suit? I would love more of your thoughts on that principle?This makes absolutely no sense to me. What do you mean "self-evident"? What do you mean "somewhat obvious to all"?Meaning that a prophet will be either stoned or his words will be accepted as from the lips of God. Its a holy calling and demands a very strong gravity and seriousness at all times. Bearing the word of God to a wayward people cannot be accompained by frivilous laughing and jesting. A prophet is a holy man of God that causes and brings a sense of Gods fearful holiness upon him.

M

moreofHim Oct 22, 2004

ok, since you asked my humble opinion :-) I think just posting the article was a good way of "exposing" the truth. It was out there on the table for all to see. To me that is acceptable. You only put out there what was already said and people will decide (with the help of the Holy Spirit) what to make of this mess.This is such a delicate situation because we cannot go around bashing people. I know what you mean about feeling a sense of responsibility but the people I have learned the most from and have had the greatest respect for (Oswald Chambers for example) just preached the truth which left all that was "untruth" out in the open for me to see as untruth. I think also you have to be careful because of the rest of the sheep, we do not want to cause anyone to stumble over somehting like this. Some people are at different stages and still need more meat to grow on before their own eyes are open to all the truths that our eyes maybe open to.I believe it is better for someone to have the Lord open their eyes for themselves after a continuous diet of pure milk and meat and say "aha! I see because now I know what truth is and now I can see that maybe some of what i thought was truth, may not be". I just keep thinking that the Lord holds me accountable for what I, myself, say and do. So I am going to worry about that. I am not accountable for what anyone else does. I have sinned, I have fallen, I have said things that i thought were thoughts from God but my feelings and emotions got mixed in there too. I cannnot say "oh, that terrible man!" because sin is sin and I would be a hypocrite myself. I think it's ok to make people aware as you did, but to continue to knock them and smear and tear down- personally I am uncomfortable with that. I know, that's just me. :-) But, hey, I am learning slowly and patiently to be more Christ-like (I hope). I don't know, I guess I am mellowing with age and learning what's really important without letting the lesser stuff get my goat. :-) I want to grow and change into His image and going around griping about people just doesn't seem to fit that image. :-P There are so many things to argue about anymore that really don't make much of a difference in the long run. Only Jesus matters. Him and Him crucified. Oh, His wonderful, marvelous works. Isn't He awsome?! :-) p.s. this is only my own humble opinion and maybe where the Lord has me at this time :-? In Him, Chanin