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Did Jesus go to hell? (Literally)

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RainMan Jun 16, 2010

I was in bible study yesterday and one of the deacons asked a question i had never previously thought of. The pastor was going on about how Jesus suffered and was separated from God to which he elluded Jesus was going through hell by this separation he then went on to say that Jesus went to hell for our sakes stc. At this point someone asked for scriptural proof that jesus when jesus died he went to geena (Hell fire). Ephesians was read were it says he who ascended also descended into the lower regions of the earth.... but this verse does not explicitly imply geena and the context seems to be hades.

So i need help with the following

1. Is there any scriptural proof that Jesus was sent to hell after he died.

2. If he did indeed spent 3 days in hell how is it that he was able to promise the thief he would spend that night with him in paradise.

3. Is/Was Abraham's bossom some sort of temporary holding place?

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” – John 20:17

4. If jesus had not yet ascended after 3 days then the paradise promised could not have been heaven and must have been abrahams bossom. is there any proof to the contrary.

5. If there are two realms in hades as illustrated by the parable of the rich guy and lazarus then how can we imply there is no suffering until judgment day when the rich guy was cast into flames of torment when his relatives were still alive on the earth?

6. If the rich guys relatives were alive and he wanted to go back and preach to them does this imply hell exists prior to judgment day

I think its part of the church of englands creed jesus went to hell.

sermonindex Jun 16, 2010


I'm not sure 'hell fire' is the same as gehenna or sheol. You could check out this verse with a concordance or Strong's definitions. Psa 139:8

With God it is always now. He is the I AM. We can't figure that out, but it works in the Spirit - when we are focused only on Him.

A
Areadymind Jun 16, 2010

I would recommend getting the book "Hell You Say," by Carl G. Johnson. He goes through all the scripture has to say on the topic and covers it way way better than a forum thread could do.

sermonindex Jun 16, 2010


Hell yes!

Lake of Fire no!

These are two different places, as we can see here:

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

V
vasilef Jun 16, 2010

Jesus went actually to Hades. So what is actually Hades, but Geenna, but Tartarus? Are all these the same thing? Hell? No.

A
AbideinHim Jun 16, 2010

Did Jesus Suffer in Hell?

Is Spiritual Death Necessary?
Some teachers claim that Jesus’ physical death on the cross could not redeem mankind but that He had to die spiritual to pay our debt. Some go so far as to say that we can’t be saved unless we believe that Jesus suffered in Hell. Why do they make this claim? It is a myth that has been propagated and grown over the years, but is contrary to the Bible and Christianity throughout history. There is no scriptural reference supports this idea. The Bible says just the opposite. Look at Colossians 2:

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

How were our sins taken out of the way? They were nailed to the cross. Look now at Colossian 1

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight --

We were reconciled from our wicked works in the body of His flesh through death. If it is true and we can’t be saved unless we believe that Jesus suffered in hell, why hasn’t spiritual death been mentioned? Jesus’ supposed spiritual death is not found anywhere in the Bible. Romans 10:9 says, "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved". The Bible does not say, "You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell". The Bible says that you must confess Jesus as Lord with your mouth and believe that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved (Romans 10:9).

Romans 8:3 tells us that Jesus Christ condemned sin in the flesh. 1 Peter 3 says:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit

The Bible says that Jesus’ death was in the flesh but His spirit was made alive. If the Bible teaches that death was physical and the Spirit was and is life, how can anyone claim that Jesus had to die a spiritual death?

You cannot find anywhere in scripture where it is even remotely implied that Jesus served man’s sentence in hell. In fact, there is not a single implication that Jesus suffered beyond the cross. Everything in scripture points directly to the cross as the victory over sin and death. There is an erroneous teaching that says Jesus suffered spiritual death and was then revived by God in Hell. He was born again with a new spiritual nature and he then emerged with the keys of hell. They point to the Apostle’s Creed as evidence that the early church believed the same things they are teaching. The point in the Apostle’s Creed in question states:

[Jesus] Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell. The third day he rose again from the dead

Where is spiritual death in this statement? Where is suffering in hell in this statement? There is no question that Jesus descended into Hades because scripture clearly states this, but it does not say He suffered. The confusion comes from the KJV use of the word hell. In the Old Testament, the KJV uses the words grave and hell interchangeably. In the New Testament, the KJV makes no distinction between hell and Hades.

Before we dig in, let me stop and make it clear that I am not degrading the KJV. I am merely pointing out the fact that the King James Version makes no distinction between Greek words. This is common in all translations. As students of the scriptures, we should examine the original intent to clear up meanings between Greek and English. The great preachers of the past did not rely on translators. An example is Charles Spurgeon. Spurgeon spent 40 or more hours a week looking up the meanings of words in order to understand scripture. He was arguably the greatest KJV preacher in history. However, he was committed to understanding the meaning behind the words in order to accurately understand the Word of God.

Understanding the word Hell
One basic principle I frequently reiterate is that the Bible is one complete revelation. To properly interpret scripture, it must be taken in light of scripture as a whole. We will see some examples that show why this is so important as we proceed. The concept of hell was not introduced until Jesus taught it in the New Testament. Old Testament saints had no distinction between hell and the grave. Jesus’ teaching is the first glimpse of hell that God ever revealed. In the Old Testament, the word ‘hell’ comes from the Hebrew word ‘sheol’. Psalm 18 provides an example of this word usage:

4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

In this Psalm, David is lamenting his sorrows. The word ‘hell’ is the word ‘sheol’. Even in the context of the passage it is being used, it is clear that the Bible is referring to the grave. Death compassed me; the sorrows of ‘sheol’ (or the grave) compassed me. It makes perfect sense to say that death and the grave is surrounding me. David was a man of God; he was used greatly by God and inherited the promise of God. He was the lineage that Christ would one day descend from. David was not going to hell when he died – at least not in the sense of today’s meaning. Sheol simply means the grave. It may be translated as hell, but it did not mean to be separated from God and tormented.

Look at Psalm 88:

3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.

Sheol has now been translated as the grave in the KJV. It is the exact same word and used in the same context, but this time it is called the grave. Now let’s move to a passage that is used to show that Jesus descended into hell. Psalm 16 says:

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Is this passage foretelling of Jesus’ separation from God, or is this prophecy pointing to His death, burial and resurrection? The apostle’s save us the confusion and interpret this very passage for us. Look at Acts 2:

26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'
29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30 "Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,
31 "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.

Only the KJV translates this as hell in verse 27. The word ‘hell’ comes from the word ‘Hades’ which means ‘the abode of the dead’ or the grave. The KJV translates three Greek words into the word hell. We will examine this in more detail shortly. To the English reader it comes across as the same word, therefore it is assumed be the same meaning, but this is not so. It is understandable that the Old Testament never addresses the issue of hell. Sheol is always used. The grave (or death) can be judgment, but it is not always. As we have already discussed, the concept of torment in hell was unknown in the Old Testament because Jesus revealed this in His teachings. Before Jesus came, the grave was a dark unknown to the Old Testament saints. The New Testament reveals a lot about hell. Understanding the different references will clarify much of the confusion about Jesus’ descent into hell.

There are three primary words translated into the word ‘hell’ by the KJV. Hades, geenna (or gehenna), and tartaroo are translated without distinction in the King James Version of the Bible. Hades is translated into the grave and hell in the KJV. Hades means the underworld, grave or place of the dead. Acts 2:27 is an example of Hades:

For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

The KJV translates this as hell, but the Greek word is Hades. The KJV translates the exact same word as grave in 1 Corinthians 15:55

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The prophecy of Jesus not remaining in Hades is talking about the body. Jesus’ body did not remain in the grave, nor did His body see corruption (or decay). This is a reference to His resurrection.

The word Gehenna is also translated into hell. Gehenna was a valley of Hinnon just south of Jerusalem. This was a wasteland where animal corpses were dumped and burned. It was a horrible place and Jesus used this as a word-picture for hell fire and judgment.

Matthew 18 is an example of this word:

9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

This word is intended to represent eternal judgment and torment. The Bible never mentions Gehenna as being the place of Jesus’ destiny after the cross.

The last word for hell is Tartaroo (or Tartarus). This means the deepest abyss of Hades. This is where the Greeks believed the wicked dead were cast when they died. 2 Peter 2 is an example of this word:

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

The Bible is teaching that angels in rebellion are cast into the deepest abyss to await judgment.

Putting it into perspective.
Now that we can see the different words used to describe death, the grave, hell and the abyss, let’s go back to the question of Jesus’ descent into hell. Was Jesus condemned to hell? I heard one teacher say that the demons threw a net around Jesus and dragged Him into hell to torture Him. This would imply that Jesus was defeated on the cross and was later rescued by God. (Which would also imply that Jesus was not God). Jesus did suffer in hell when He died. His body went to the grave, but His spirit was fully alive. Jesus made this clear in John 2:

19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

It was the temple of His body that would be destroyed, not His spirit. When Jesus died, He immediately surrender Himself into the Father’s hands. Of course we don’t know the exact events or when they occurred, but we do know that after this He descended into Hades. We will discuss this in-depth a little later. Jesus’ own words give us a small glimpse. On the cross, one of the thieves repented and asked Jesus to remember him. Jesus responded in Luke 23:

42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

To remove the contradiction of Jesus’ statement and the doctrine of Jesus suffering in hell, one teacher offered this explanation:

Jesus did not say, ‘I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise’ the comma is misplaced. It should read, ‘I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise’. In other words, "Today I am saying this. You will be with Me in Paradise".

This is reading into the text. There would be no need for Jesus to tell the thief when this statement was being made. Even so, all we need to do is read three verses farther and Jesus clears up the issue completely.

46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.' " Having said this, He breathed His last.

It is a contradiction to say that Jesus’ spirit was dragged into hell, when Jesus said His spirit was in the Father’s hands. The Bible tells us that the first place Jesus’ spirit went was to be with the Father. In light of what He told the thief, we can assume His destination was Paradise. Jesus’ body went to the grave, but His spirit was fully alive. We may not know the exact events that happened after Jesus’ physical death, but the Bible does offer several pieces to this puzzle. Look at 1 Peter 3

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Again I want to bring your attention to the truth of scripture. Verse 18 tells us that Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but alive by the Spirit. After making this point unmistakably clear, the Bible then tells us that He also preached to the spirits in prison. If the Bible is true, then the teaching that Jesus suffered for 3 days in hell must be false. There is a chasm between these two doctrines. Jesus claimed His spirit was yielded into the Father’s hands, the scripture also claims that Jesus triumphed on the cross and then preached to the spirits in prison. How does suffering fit into these scriptures? It is not found in scripture, therefore it must be added.

Proverbs 30:6 warns us not to add to God’s words or else He will rebuke us and we will be found to be a liar. Isn’t that exactly what is happening in the doctrine of Jesus suffering in hell? Teachers are adding to God’s word what clearly is not there. The Bible always points to the cross as Jesus’ victory over sin and our redemption. The cross is the message of the gospel. If Jesus triumphantly declared, "It is finished", what right does any man have to say, "No, the process of redemption has only begun"?

Each of these passages of scripture testifies that Jesus was alive in the Spirit, in the Father’s hands, entered Paradise, etc. No passage even remotely implies that He suffered beyond the cross. If there are countless verses that teach that He triumphed over sin on the cross and He preached in victory, and no passages say He suffered spiritually, then doesn’t it make sense to take the Bible speak for itself on this subject?

Satan hates the cross and will attack it on every level. Look again at Colossians 2:

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

If Jesus made a public spectacle of Satan and his forces on the cross and through the cross He triumphed over them, is it any wonder that satan desperately wants to discredit the cross? Since the cross is a reminder of Satan’s defeat, we can surely expect that he will do anything to take attention away from the cross.

Eddie Snipes
Exchanged Life Outreach
http://www.exchangedlife.com

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AbideinHim Jun 16, 2010

The teaching that Jesus became a sinner dying spiritually, suffered in hell for our sins, and was born again in hell was made popular by E.W. Kenyon, and was promoted by many of the word of faith teachers. Although I was heavily involved in the faith teaching, this is one teaching that I struggled with, and rightly so.

An excellent book that was written on the subject in the early 80's was "Was The Cross Enough? Or Did Jesus Die Twice?" by David Alsobrook.

M
mela07 Jun 16, 2010

Yes he did here is one scripture:

Ephesians 4:9
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

sermonindex Jun 16, 2010

Hell is hell in english.

In the greek we see three words:

Hades=the abode of the dead. There are two sides to Hades:
paradise (aka: Abraham's bosom), and torment

Gehenna= the lake of fire, of which death shall be cast into.

Tartaros= the bottomless pit, or abyss. Bottomless is deeper then the depths of the earth,
[(speculating...and it's wondered if this is not some kind of black star, essential anti-matter, possibly the entrance in the very heart of the earth.)]

Jesus went to the first region mentioned.

When he took captivity captive (aka: fallen angels and associates), before his resurrection in victory , he had to go to Tarteros, because this is where he must have proclaimed this, to the spirits "bound". We find reference in Jude 7, 2 Pet. 2:4, and 1 Pet. 3:19.

This is reference to Him filling all in all.
See Eph. 4:7, 8, 9, 10.

Hades is in the lower parts of the earth, also known as Sheol in the O.T, which confirms Eph. 4:9.

Gehenna is reserved for God's upcoming final judgement. In the end, the devil with associate minions-(angels and those enslaved in sin resulting from their rebellion), hell, and death shall all be cast into it.

The third day release of Jesus from Hades was based on Him not being guilty of sin, so death has no claim nor hold on Him. He possesses both keys, hell and death.

It was when in this he was judged guiltless that he was no longer imprisoned in Hades. This is why his proclamation to the imprisoned spirits occured upon His resurection.

Hope this helps.

Love,
gregg


Edited: final note added.

P
prosh0t Jun 16, 2010

Everything that Jesus said on the cross contradicts the idea that He had to go to a physical Hell and suffer more afterward.

"Today you will be with me in paradise."
"Father into thy hands I commit my spirit."
"It is finished."

Rev 20:14 says that death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. there's something significant about that.

Hell is the torment that Christ suffered on the cross - absence from the presence of God. Yes, Christ suffered that on the cross (Acts 2:27). His SOUL was suffering Hell.

with regard to the verse that talks about Him being in the heart of the earth (Mat 12:40, Eph 4:9)... is the lake of fire actually inside earth? NO. That was referring to His body being buried in the tomb while His spirit ascended to Heaven until His resurrection when they were joined together again. He's saying that the sign to man which would be given is that His body would be resurrected from the tomb in the earth.

sermonindex Jun 17, 2010

Paradise is not the 3rd Heaven.

Never in the scriptures is it referred to as that. Rather, they are two seperate distinctly different things.

Ancient societies recognised the gk. paradise usually as a beautiful park of varying descriptions, where the "Blessed" (are the) go after death.

"Heart of the earth" is the greek way of saying the Hebrew/Aramaic word "Sheol".

An above ground seplechur is hardly the heart of the earth.

Jesus was seperated from God in his death, which lasted 3 days and three nights in Hades--->not hell-fire.

Love,
g

edited: due to error in last phrase removed from last statement.

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mela07 Jun 17, 2010

disregard what I said (I said that He did go into hell)..I have to study this topic more...

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prosh0t Jun 17, 2010

If Jesus suffered for three days AFTER the cross then He was lying when He said, 'it is finished'. I don't really see how it can get much plainer than that...

sermonindex Jun 17, 2010

by prosh0t on 2010/6/16 18:01:27

If Jesus suffered for three days AFTER the cross then He was lying when He said, 'it is finished'.

Are you willing to say that the cross was not enough and that it was not finished there? If so, then I don't know what anybody can say to help you since you will not believe what Jesus said.
-----------------------------------------------------------
The pouring out of God's wrath on Him was Jesus suffering. He suffered in the flesh.

The paradise side of hades is not recognized to be suffering.

In saying, "it is finished", it should be understood to mean "I have now paid in full for everything (the debt of man's transgression has brought."

The greek root word that is translated "it-is-finished" is "teleo."

It was a word that was put on reciept of sale, when the transaction was complete. Today we do this by writing "Paid in Full" across something that is paid in installments or with a down payment.


He was not lying at all. He tasted death for every man.

g

edit: grammar

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prosh0t Jun 17, 2010

I apologize for the words (which you quoted from the previous message from me), they were too harsh (the part where I said you don't believe what Jesus said). I erased them and put a more proper response but you had read the first message I posted already before I had a chance to edit.

God bless

sermonindex Jun 17, 2010

There was never any offense taken. Much harsher words come from satanists, occultists, cultists, and worst of all, the piously religious.

Really, it was taken in stride.

If we are ever to come to unity of faith, this is all par for the course. No offense was ever taken: no anger here and there's nothin' up my sleeve.

When -(not if)- i am wrong, speak up. Tell me when i fail. Sometimes i am short-sighted detailing everything out, and for being so wordy with text, this should not be the case.

It's preferred that you remain up front, blunt, and to the point. my response according to need seen, irregardless of feelings. (Feelings change, needs don't.)

(Conversation here is just like i type, excluding the typo's...
...and i am far from thin skinned.

We all need each other.


God Bless you, too.


Love,
gregg

R
RainMan Jun 17, 2010

I think i understand a little better now. I had erroneously believed Jesus went to Gehenna (Hell Fire) because allot of the teaching i listened too were evolved from the works of EW Kenyon and Hagin. But it seems to me now its clear enough from the bible that Jesus didn't suffer in hell after his death. I discussed some of the answers with my wife whose jaw literally dropped to the floor when i shared what i had learnt. Now i wonder how im gonna share any of this next week in bible study, my pastor seems quite sure Jesus went to hell. *i need to pray about this*

Thanks for all the answers

God Bless

sermonindex Jun 17, 2010

Rom 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Now this death is not physical death but eternal death. If physical death is the punishment of our sins then everyone who dies should go to heaven because as soon as a person dies, he pays the punishment.

When Jesus took the punishment of our sins He had to go through the eternal death, which is to be forsaken by God, in other words experiencing hell.

Our punishment is eternity in hell i.e. billions and billions of years in hell that too only for one man. But Jesus experienced that for 3 hours on the cross. How come 3 hours of Jesus were enough to pardon the sins of billions of people. The reason for that is Jesus was God (an infinite being).

3 hours (finite) x Jesus (infinite) = infinite
infinite no. of years x one man (finite) = infinite

That is also the one reason that ONLY JESUS could come to die for us and save us from our sins.

Once Jesus died He went to paradise as He said to the thief.

-SJB

sermonindex Jun 17, 2010

His suffering was on the cross NOT in hell. The issue was with the flesh.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jesus did not suffer in hell.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, BEING PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH, but quickened by the Spirit:

This is the power of God in that when we finally recognize that we are dead, we too are quickened by the Spirit to go forth and do good works.

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

His suffering ONCE was the sacrifice on the cross.

sermonindex Jun 17, 2010

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

His suffering ONCE was the sacrifice on the cross.

"To put away sin". Some verses to consider.

Daniel 9:24

to finish the transgression. Matthew 23:32
to make an END OF SINS. Hebrews 9:26, John 1:29
to make reconciliation for iniquity. Hebrews 2:17
to bring in everlasting righteousness. Hebrews 5:9
to vindicate the vision and prophecy. Matthew 11:13, Luke 11:50
to anoint the most Holy. Luke 4:18, Hebrews 9:12

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