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The Baptism in the Holy Spirit: The Evidence

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TimmyJoe Jun 26, 2010

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit: The Evidence

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you… Acts 1:8

…the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Rom. 5:5

\tIn Christianity today, especially Pentecostal churches, there is a lot of talk about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, an experience that Jesus said His followers should seek and expect to experience, and with that talk usually comes the question of the evidence of this Holy Spirit baptism. If you’ve been around the Pentecostal or Charismatic movement you’ve probably heard the answer “speaking in tongues”. This answer comes from Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues..”. All throughout the books of Acts we see believers being filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues (all except twice Acts 4:31, 8:17). So should we consider that to be sufficient enough to label speaking in tongues the “initial physical evidence”, or should we dig a little deeper to see if the Bible tells us of any other evidence that someone has received this gift promised by the Father. First I want us to remember that the book of Acts is a history book, though I dare not compare modern records of church history with Holy Scripture, I think we should take a look at the experiences of other believers who profess to have been baptized in the Holy Spirit:

D.L. Moody

\tIn 1871 at one of Mr. Moody’s meetings, he was stirred with a desire for spiritual power by two women who would attend the meetings. He could see that they were praying, and at the close of the service they would say to him:
\t“We have been praying for you.”

\t“Why don’t you pray for the people?” Mr. Moody would ask.

\t“Because you need the power of the Spirit” they would say.

\t“I need the power! Why?” said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, “ I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago”, but the two women kept praying for him. There came a great hunger into his soul as he visited New York.

\t“I was crying all the time that God would fill me with His Spirit. Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name… I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were no different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of balance.”


Paul Washer
\t
\t“When I was 22 years old I’d go out street preaching in Austin, TX. I was scared half out of my wits. I’d walk around a lot of times the whole night with my Bible and not be able to share with anybody or preach, like a coward… So I decided that either this whole thing is a hoax, and I knew it wasn’t, but I said where’s the power? Where’s the life? What did those apostles do?… I went out west of Austin and I climbed up on a hill and I went crazy for 3 days. I would grab rocks and throw them at the sky and beg God to come down. Nothing happened! I went home, it went on couple more months, I almost got to the point where I was crazy. And one night I cried out to God, I don’t know how long, but God came, and I thought I was going to die. I laid on my face I don’t know how long, I covered my head, I curled up in the fetal position and just laid there. Then all of a sudden a joy that I had never known in my life, my mouth shot open… It was like everything I had ever read in the book of Psalms came pouring out of my mouth. After that did I struggle with sin? Yep! Did I struggle with fear? Yep! Did I have all the common problems with sanctification? Yep! But did my life change? Yep! I started going out there and preaching. God was real, He’s more real to me than all of you sitting in this room right now.”


Charles Finney

\t“As I turned and was about to take a seat by the fire, I received a mighty baptism of the Holy Ghost. Without any expectation of it, without ever having the thought in my mind that there was any such thing for me, without any recollection that I had ever heard the thing mentioned by any person in the world, the Holy Spirit descended upon me in a manner that seemed to go through me, body and soul. I could feel the impression, like a wave of electricity, going through and through me. Indeed it seemed to come in waves and waves of liquid love, for I could not express it in any other way. It seemed like the very breath of God. I can recollect distinctly that it seemed to fan me, like immense wings”

“No words can express the wonderful love that was shed abroad in my heart. I wept aloud with joy and love; and I do not know but I should say, I literally bellowed out the unutterable gushings of my heart. These waves came over me, and over me, one after the other, until I recollect I cried out, ‘I shall die if these waves continue to pass over me. I said, ‘Lord, I cannot bear any more; yet I had no fear of death.”


Duncan Campbell

\t“But listen, friends, as I lay there, God the Holy Ghost came upon me. Wave after wave came rolling over me until the love of God swept through me like a mighty river! So much so, that there were moments… now listen, my daughter beside me put her hand on my shoulders and she prayed, ‘Oh God, keep his reason to daddy.’ I was never more sane in my life! But I was so wrought by the Holy Ghost that I cried and I laughed and I prayed.”

“Someone asked me, ‘Did you speak in tongues?’ Oh, I was asked that again and again. No, my dear people, I’ve never spoken in tongues nor have I ever been in a meeting where tongues have been practiced… No dear people… mind you, when I say that, don’t think that I’m denying the gifts mentioned in the New Testament, precious gifts when God gives them. But all I can say is that it never came to me!”

“But I say that the baptism of the Holy Ghost came to me… in a mighty cleansing, empowering power!”

(A professor essentially asks him what difference the experience made in his life and he responds):

“Well, I think, professor, that the difference must be obvious to you from what has already happened, ‘I said. ‘I went out to preach the same sermons with this difference- that I now saw hundreds converted, hundreds brought savingly to Christ.”


R.A. Torrey

\t“I had been a minister for some years before I came to the place where I saw that I had no right to preach until I was definitely baptized with the Holy Ghost… Then just as far as I could, I shut myself up alone in my study and spent the time continually on my knees asking God to baptize me with the Holy Spirit… I recall the exact spot where I was kneeling in prayer in my study… It was a very quiet moment, one of the most quiet moments I ever knew… Then God simply said to me, not in any audible voice, but in my heart, ‘It’s yours. Now go and preach.”

“Some time after this experience (I do not recall just how long after), while sitting in my room one day, that very same room… suddenly, as near as I can describe it, though it does not exactly describe it, I was struck from my chair onto the floor and I found myself shouting (I was not brought up to shout and I am not of the shouting temperament, but I shouted like the loudest shouting Methodist), ‘Glory to God, glory to God, glory to God,’ and I could not stop. I tried to stop, but it was just as if some other power than my own was moving my jaws. At last, when I had succeeded in pulling myself together, I went downstairs and told my wife what had just happened. But that was not when I was baptized with the Holy Spirit. I was baptized with the Holy Spirit when I took Him by faith in the naked Word of God…”


Jonathan Edwards

\t“Once as I rode out into the woods for my health, in 1737, having alighted from my horse in a retired place, as my manner commonly had been to walk for divine contemplation and prayer, I had a view that for me was extraordinary, of the glory of the Son of God. As near as I can judge, this continued about an hour, and kept me the greater part of the time in a flood of tears and weeping aloud. I felt an ardency of soul to be what I know not otherwise how to express, emptied and annihilated; to love Him with a holy and pure love; to serve and follow Him; to be perfectly sanctified and made pure with a divine and heavenly purity.”


\tJonathan Edward’s didn’t (to my knowledge) refer to this experience as the baptism in the Holy Spirit, but it does show that he was no stranger to the power and presence of the Holy Ghost. Likewise his ministry also validates the fact that he was “endued with power from on high”.

\tSo all throughout church history we see men, who have accomplished great things, who were baptized in the Holy Spirit, yet without ever speaking in tongues. At the same time there are many others who have received this baptism that do speak with tongues (David Wilkerson, Zac Poonen, B.H. Clendennen,). So what should we say then? Can speaking in other tongues be the evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit? Or were these men wrong in calling their experience the baptism in the Holy Ghost? What does the Bible say?

\tThe Bible says in 1 Corinthians 12:4, “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.” and in verse 11 it tells us that the Holy Spirit “gives them to each one, just as He determines.” In the entirety of Chapter 12, Paul is assuring the Corinthian believers that everyone will not have the same gifts of the Spirit, and that just because one is not an “eye” or an “ear” doesn’t mean that they are not part of the body. Now with that said, I fully understand the Pentecostal interpretation of 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14, the belief that Paul is speaking of two different kinds of tongues. But lets be honest and simple in our interpretation of these chapters. In 14:5 Paul says, “I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.” Now is Paul here talking about two different types of tongues in this one verse? He would that all spoke in tongues, obviously because he sees benefit in this gift, as the preceding verse says, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself”. Paul also said that he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than them all, yet in the church would rather speak with understanding. Paul saw great benefit in this gift and desired that all have it, and that in the church it would be used for the use of edifying the body through interpretation, but he also realized that the Spirit “gives them to each one, just as He determines.” In chapter 12:30 he asks the rhetorical question “do all speak with tongues?” , to which, the answer is obviously, NO. But our Pentecostal brothers always say, “ well not everyone who speaks in tongues has the GIFT of tongues.” (referring to giving a message in tongues that is followed by interpretation), but just because someone hasn’t used the gift in that area of ministry doesn’t mean they don’t have that gift. It is the same gift just with different uses, to edify oneself, and to edify the entire body. I believe an honest simple reading of chapters 12-14 will reveal that to anyone who is open to truth.

\tSadly we are often times blinded by our traditions. The testimonies of the men above would be denied as being the true baptism in the Holy Spirit in the majority of churches today, because of the lack of the gift of tongues, even though they got just what Jesus promised, POWER! The only evidence Jesus ever said would be is power, power to be witnesses, and power to love like He loved. “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” I love the Pentecostal church ( I am a member of an A/G church), I believe the gift of tongues should be in operation in every local body, but I do pray that the emphasis that is put on tongues as the “initial physical evidence” would be placed on the evidence that Jesus gave us:

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you… Acts 1:8

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TimmyJoe Jun 26, 2010

sorry this should probably be in the articles and sermons thread.

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sojourner7 Jun 26, 2010

Baptism in the Holy Spirit is evidenced
by the fruits of the Spirit!!

sermonindex Jun 26, 2010

If it is the wrong category, our moderators will see that it is transferred.

ok, here goes:

God is not going to force anybody to do anything. He Guides and we willingly obey or He disciplines us towards His ideal, i.e., into the image of Jesus Christ.

Further, if a person does not believe in something our ever unchanging God has testified of doing in the scriptures, it is not going to be that way for them. This is the path of the reprobate, and God will abandon them to their own devices, until they turn to Him.

Unbelief is locked into pride, fear (of man?), trust in the arm of the flesh, which all can be summarized as components of idolatry. In idolatry, people become blind and deaf towards God's message for them, and rather speculate and rationalize away what does not happen -(in their case)- due to their idolatry. In this human reasoning away of God's message, hardness of heart ensues.
(see Rom. 1:21-2:11)

The question is if we think God is limited to what we think He is capable of (idolatry), or whether we will rest all our confidence in Him to do more than we could ever ask or think (worship in Spirit and Truth).

It's this: Is. 44:25
OR
this: Rom. 12:1-2

Jesus proclaimed that no man can serve two masters.
In any one thing, nobody but nobody can have it both ways...
["...butcha' gotta' serve somebody..."

sermonindex Jun 26, 2010

To me, walking in the Spirit is walking in fullfilment of His word. When someone offends me, but I do not take the offence, I am walking in the Spirit. When I am insulted , yet I do not care because I am dead to my own self, when I love when naturally I should not, when I should be angry, but anger quickly gives way to love and forgiveness, then I am walking in the Spirit.When I have something against a brother, or know that he has something against me and I go to that brother and reach out to him, then I am walking in the Spirit. When I agree with someone who attacks me, rather than defend myself, then I am walking in the Spirit.

When I look upon a woman, not with lust but with purity, when I would rather pluck out my eye than offend my Holy God, when all men know that my word is my bond, that I do not have to attach oaths to my word, then I am walking in the Spirit.When I am assaulted and I turn the other cheek, if I am robbed of my wallet, and I reach into my pocket and give my robber all that I have, when I can bless those who curse me, and pray for those who hate me without cause, then I am walking in the Spirit.If I can love , not only those who love me, but those who hate me, when I do a good thing for someone and I make sure no one knows about it, when I talk to my Lord all day long, whispering loving thoughts to Him, then I am walking in the Spirit.

When I fast, and no one knows about it, when I refuse to be anxious, when I make a concious descision to do all things by prayer and supplication and thanksgiving, when I judge others by the same standard that I judge myself, then I am walking in the Spirit.When two paths open up before me, and I choose the narrow one, when I do all these things and men know me because of them, when disaster strikes my life and my response is to praise my Father in Heaven and lift up the name of Jesus, then I am walking in the Spirit.As I do all these things and a peace that is beyond understanding fills me completely, then I know that I am walking in the Spirit of the Living God and my heart literaly burns within my chest. And as it burns, it gives off a light that men can see and they are drawn to Christ in me. When this happens, I know that I am walking in the Spirit!

Doctinal correctness, theological knowledge, its all information. And without the Spirit of the Lord it is dead orthodoxy. It is illumination of the Word, and by that I mean it is the Holy Spirit working in us for His good pleasure that prompts us in a certain direction. When we respond to that prompting, then we are walking in the Spirit. All the things I mentioned above I would never do. In fact, my nature is such that I would do the exact opposite for most of the examples and be applauded by my culture. My only part in this is to yield to the inner workings of the Spirit. It must come from the inside out. If it comes from the outside in, then I will eventually cry out “Oh wretched man that I am.’ The problem is that for long periods of time we cannot tell if a man’s outward piety comes from the inside out or the outside in. Time and circumstances will of course tell the story. The man who operates and lives his life by dead orthodoxy and tries to accomplish a Christ like life from the outside in, will eventually, or sooner or later, fall to pride and then fall as he ultimately fails. If we try an accomplish the commandments of God in our own strength, then we will utterly fail in short order, or have some success and self-righteousness and then utterly fail. This can take one year, but I have also seen it take 30 years.

My part is to surrender and yield to the Spirit that is within me. I must also be able to hear that small still voice that leads and guides me. I must also be genuine in all that I do, my outward actions must be a reflection of my inner state. That right there is the difference between life and death. I must cultivate my relationship with Jesus because my ability to walk in the Spirit is directly tied to Christ in me and my relationship with Him. I must be able to come into His presence. It is only by walking in His presence, walking in the Spirit, that I can be used of Him to be light to the darkness. Experiencing His presence actually, as opposed to believing a theological truth, having a faith in information, giving a mental assent to an abstract truth is also the difference between Spiritual life and a fleshly life........brother Frank

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TimmyJoe Jun 29, 2010

I agree that the fruit of the Spirit is evidence that someone is walking in the Spirit,and will continue to increase throughout the christian life, but I also believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is an experience to be sought by every believer. I think Greg said it best in his 95 theses to the modern church #2:

Thesis 2 - Evangelicals ignore most of the methods, practices and principles found in Acts chapter 2.

We need to be clothed in power from on high!

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InTheLight Jun 30, 2010

To me, walking in the Spirit is...

Brother frank, outstanding post, the Spirit bears witness to what you have written. This is one of the best descriptions of spiritual life that I have read, thanks.

Oh to walk as He walked, all the day, all my days...

In Christ,

Ron

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Goldminer Jun 30, 2010

"Charles Finney

“As I turned and was about to take a seat by the fire, I received a mighty baptism of the Holy Ghost. Without any expectation of it, without ever having the thought in my mind that there was any such thing for me, without any recollection that I had ever heard the thing mentioned by any person in the world, the Holy Spirit descended upon me in a manner that seemed to go through me, body and soul. I could feel the impression, like a wave of electricity, going through and through me. Indeed it seemed to come in waves and waves of liquid love, for I could not express it in any other way. It seemed like the very breath of God. I can recollect distinctly that it seemed to fan me, like immense wings”

This is almost an exact description of my experience in 1976 when filled with the Holy Ghost and power, however I spoke in tongues too.

I had only been saved for 3 days, and had people at my church pray for me, laying on hands, for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was pretty much ignorant of the things of God, except that I was a wretched sinner, and had been powerfully delivered from my sinful past. I had never been to church since I was a small child. I didn't feel any difference after they prayed for me, but I kept praying, practically day and night to recieve all God had for me. If there was something to this baptism of the Holy Spirit I wanted it. After that third day I was sound asleep and found myself sitting straight upright in the bed with my arms out cross fashion with what felt like electricity surging through my body, and I was speaking in tongues. No words I could recognise. I woke my husband up with the noise.

Immediately after this infilling I was compelled to share what God had done for me. It was like a fire shut up in my bones. It felt like a huge lump of love in my heart and it oozed out to everybody. Just about everybody I came in contact with got saved, glory to God, and my life was totally tranformed to live for God. I feel this event has been the most important thing in keeping me following Jesus. Nobody can ever tell me it didn't happen and that it wasn't a true gift from God. It is a treasured time that I can't deny. It was real and solid. I thank God for it.

Like Appolus shared these signs of our relationship, the fruit of the Spirit, are accompanying the baptism of power. You can't help but show love, you can't help but show mercy. Not that you have these things in yourself, but Christ in us is manifest through these earthen vessels that all the glory should go the the lover of our souls.

It is real. However, I would never say that people who have not had the "evidence of tongues" are not filled. Only God knows that for sure. That dispute has gone around and around and it will probably never be answered to everyone's satifaction. All I know I experienced it this way, but I have seen many people who appear to be full of the power of the Holy Spirit and they have never said they experienced it the same way I did. I do thank God for making is it so.... clear to me.

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learn Jun 30, 2010

TimmyJoe, can you provide the link on where you got this from. I'm the most interested in Paul Washer's one. Thanks

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TimmyJoe Jun 30, 2010

This is just a little article I wrote myself. Here is the link for the Paul Washer testimony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZyl8VcCYc it is about 13 mins in. 13:49 to be exact. Finney's is from a biography of his. Moody and Torrey I got from a website http://www.prmi.org/files/gem2.pdf. Campbell's I found on a forum here on SI, and Edwards came from an E.M. Bounds book, The Essentials of Prayer.

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TimmyJoe Jun 30, 2010

IntheLight said,

Brother frank, outstanding post, the Spirit bears witness to what you have written. This is one of the best descriptions of spiritual life that I have read, thanks.

Amen! Brother Frank, that was a very encouraging post.

Thanks,
TimmyJoe

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Lysa Jun 30, 2010

I enjoyed your article, Timmy. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong anybody), churches are supported by their governing body and if they step away from what the governing body declares what is 'evidence' of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, they are fired; ejected out of the church; or the whole church is ejected. I'm not quite sure what the steps are but they will bring you into line (if you let them) and they do it by withholding $$$$$ from you and the church.

We can see the trap many preachers have fallen into of looking to another for our livelihood instead of God! I'm not blaming them b/c the Lord allowed me to see this up close & personal a few years ago. When I did the ppt and sound for the church I went to, the church paid me with a $250 gas card every month for about 2 yrs and what was the FIRST thing I thought about when I knew it was time to leave... that's right, that piddly card! I was unemployed at the time and I probably stayed about 10 months longer than I should have and all over me arguing with myself over that gas card. I can't imagine counting on $2000 or more dollars a month coming in. God free up our pastors to be free for you, Jesus!!

And another side of it too is, that's why a lot of these TV preachers have broken away from their denominations b/c they didn't want to give their governing body "all that money they made."

Greed it's everywhere. I heard Derek Prince say in a sermon last week, "sin is crouching at the door," when we go out and when we come back in... it's there waiting on us, to trounce on us when we come in tired and beat down, if we don't stay alert.

In the 1950's, the pastors of the church I grew up had some mighty signs and wonders in their midst and several pentecostal denominations wanted them to join in with their church and they prayed the first couple times and finally the Lord said to them, "If you want man to tell what you preach, join their denomination. If you don't, you need to stay with me." And they stayed with God.

We need to pray for the pastors that those who have an ear to hear will hear the call of the Lord and teach what needs to be taught to their sheep come hell or high water, in the name of Jesus!!

God bless you,

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learn Jul 1, 2010

TimmyJoe,
the link given below is 1 hour+. Is it the right link because you mentioned that it was only 13 minutes for Paul Washer's. Thanks.

Quote from TimmieJoe
'Here is the link for the Paul Washer testimony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZyl8VcCYc it is about 13 mins in. 13:49 to be exact.'

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TimmyJoe Jul 1, 2010

learn,

Yes that is the right link. it is about an hour and 25 mins long, but the testimony is at 13 mins and 49 secs into the video. 13:49 is where you can here it to save you from having to watch the whole thing, even though the whole thing is very good.

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learn Jul 2, 2010

Thank you so much TimmyJoe. Yep its at the 13:49th minute of the 1+hr video.

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TimmyJoe Jul 15, 2010

Denny Kenaston said,

I want to say something about speaking in tongues. You seek God, you break your heart before, God, God pours out His spirit upon you, and you might speak in tongues. Sometimes that happens. Many times it doesn’t happen, but sometimes it happens. And if we’re going to be honest with this Bible… at least for me, I can’t stand up here and wiggle my way through all of those verse in the Bible and give you a nice theological reason why all of those things have passed away. I can’t do that. I don’t speak in tongues. I’ve never spoken in tongues. That’s not the longing of my heart. I’ll tell you what I pray continually, I pray, I plead, and beg God that I might prophesy, “God, to the edifying of the Church, I want to prophesy,”. So I’ve been hooked on that gift for a ling time. So I’m just saying that because, hey, that may happen. But I know there’s lot of confusion about that in this America where we live and there’s a lot of emotional confusion on it, and there’s a lot of static, emotional “working up” of things, and it’s not at all what I’m talking about, not at all. Most of it is spurious. As for me, I’ll take Moody and Finney’s anointing any day over this stuff that they seem to be having in this America. I’ll take Moody’s anointing, and never have to speak in another tongue. I’ll take Finney’s anointing any day over that. The point I’m making is, again we’re not looking for an experience. Again, we’re looking for the diving nature of God descending upon a man’s life overwhelming him with His presence and putting the character of the Living God upon His heart and the anointing upon his words. This I want. This I want, and you should also want, and seek with all of your heart, believing “Much more shall the Heavenly Father give to them that ask. Much, much, more.

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TimmyJoe Jul 15, 2010

I want to recommend Denny Kenaston's sermons "baptism in the Holy Ghost and the New Testament reality" and "Enduement of Power".

they are in the text sermons section for anyone interested in more on this subject. :)

Thank,
Timmyjoe

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Christinyou Jul 16, 2010

This has nothing to do with the One baptism into One Spirit of the Body of Christ. The only evidence is Spirit filled revelation of the Christ that is in us and the upbuilding of the Body of Christ, by His Spirit and the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of our Father, which is One Baptism, preformed by Christ given us at rebirth.

One full bucket of Grace. Not parts and pieces or being filled and leaking, but we receive it all, one full bucket.
Let us be men in understanding.

1 Corinthians 14:6-20 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

No speaking in tongues, that being the evidence of Holy
Spirit baptism, Not, Not, Not, never.

In understanding be men; In Christ: Phillip

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mguldner Jul 16, 2010

I grew up in a Pentecostal church background actually kind of all over the place with denominations anyways I am now currently a Youth Pastor at an Assemblies of God.

According to the 16 Fundmental truths is when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit you WILL speak in tongues. Once God broke through my religious heart I began to search for myself and found that Speaking in Tongues was never evidence of Baptism in the Spirit but rather a gift of the Spirit along with the other Spiritual Gifts.

I have "spoken in tongues" before but can't say it was a genuine move of God baptizing me. Why? because at those times I was clinging to my sin more than ever and still loving it. I found that Baptism of the Holy Spirit can't be identified with Speaking in tongues in a practical way I was a heathen and could speak jibberish with the best of them (no offense to those that speak in tongues) but it wasn't real or authentic because it wasn't backed up with something that I find is the true evidence not only of conversion but of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and that is Radical Freeing from Sin.


Repentance, Conviction, Godly Sorrow, Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Self Control. Baptism will ALWAYS Lead to a Holy, Humble lifestyle before Jesus Christ.

Are there still those that can speak in Tongues for real with these evidences? MOST CERTAINLY But without the things above what is the point of Baptism? Isn't Holy Spirit Baptism just for those reasons above? To live a Godly life Through Christ Jesus is what I seek, I will listen to the Holy Spirit and be obedient to what He says if I don't ever speak in tongues that's fine with me its a gift I am willing to receive if Christ Jesus is glorified through it I most certain don't want to get something and try and trick my brain into thinking I have it while all along I am just speaking jibberish.

One last thing I have noticed a flaw in pushing just this one gift among the Pentecostal movement Many people are only seeking after this gift so they don't feel left out, which to me seems like a poor motive. I know I originally spoke in tongues as a young boy only because my older brother was doing it so I simply followed suit.

When is the Body of Christ going to cry out for the Reality of Jesus rather than the emotionally feel sermons and music to manipulate the masses?

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Lysa Jul 16, 2010

I absolutely believe that the Pentecostal churches have sought after this one gift even perhaps instead of seeking after God's own heart but I know I'm preaching to the choir here (so to speak!!) but this has everything to do with what a person is taught by their preacher / pastor / mentor etc. And if they do not (get out much) and listen to other preachers or teachers (or have a heart to search the scriptures), they won't know any different!

And we CANNOT blame these people or churches, that's God's job. All we can do is lovingly educate and let them know what God has done for us!

Another point I'd like to comment on is the sinful state people are in when they say they have spoken in tongues; as if this somehow disregards God's gift altogether. Now, for the record, I acknowledge that there are false tongues out there but just because a person was in a sinful state does not logically conclude they recieved false tongues!

*** Question*** The Holy Spirit prays what He hears from Jesus so how do we know that God has not taken this opportunity to pray for "you" - to have the Holy Spirit pray over your life and what you have need of from the throne of God; to get you where you need to be? Just saying... it's worth thinking and praying about.

God bless,

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