Gideons Okay, I see what you are saying. The scripture that come to mind for this is this one:Mathew 18: 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.There has been some debate as to the meaning of these scriptures and as to how literally we should take that. I think Jesus here was addressing a real problem and the severity of his remedy suggest the severity of the problem. In other word you must at all costs cease to be a continual offence to God.Jude 4I say this because some godless people have wormed their way in among you, saying that God's forgiveness allows us to live immoral lives. The fate of such people was determined long ago, for they have turned against our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NLT)The problem you have pointed out is a real one Sir. I am sure that the grace of God will find its way into the lives of many people in different ways, but for me two passages of scripture were linked when I was in fellowship with one brother in way that brought some light to my eyes.Matthew 17:14-21 14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, 15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. 16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. 17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. 18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.The normal authority given by Jesus to rebuke demons was literally not sufficient for this particular demon, which was evidently trying to kill him. In addition, there are offences, which are literally trying to kill us and cast us into the fire, and our Lord said that this kind comes out ONLY by prayer and fasting. Nothing else will cut it. And on fasting we have one great passage in the scripture:Isaiah 58:3-7 3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. 5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD? 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? TO LOOSE THE BANDS OF WICKEDNESS, TO UNDO HEAVY BURDENS, AND LET THE OPPRESSED GO FREE, AND THAT YE BREAK EVERY YOKE? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?In ChristJames