501c

Are there downsides 2 501c or what do u think JESUS would answer 2 this ? ?

Could you explain what you mean without exchanging words for numbers and using slang. I haven't got a clue what you mean.

Thanks.

501c is a type of corporation here in the USA Enid. Most, if not all churches operate as corporations here that are defined as non-profit. As a result all "Tithe" money is tax deductible for the parishioners.

I never liked the fact that titheing or giving in general is tax deductible, it never settled well with me and so I just don't deduct it from my taxes.

I think so long as the church can utilize such an organizational registration with the federal government, without compromising itself, it is a prudent thing to do. Not so much for the tax benefits of it's donors, but so that a group of people can put money into a common pot for the sake of the gospel, without that money being treated as income to the church, and thus taxed as if it were a corporation.

Without the tax shelter afforded to a 501c3 organization, the church would have to pay 25+ percent tax on all money donated to it, like any other corporation in America. For the time being, we should recognize this tax status as a blessing from the Lord, especially when it comes to performing mercy ministries. Otherwise, without such a tax exempt status, if money were to be simply given to one person, it would all have to be "under the table" money, which techincally speaking, is an illegal source of income if not taxed.

Areadymind,

Thanks for explaining. Plain English. That's all I wanted.

There are generally two concerns over a church filing with the IRS as 501c organizations.

1) Concern that some religious organizations are using their non-profit tax emption status for unscrupulous profiteering.

2) Concern that registering with the government means a loss of liberty for the conscience and speech of the church members.

While both of these concerns are valid, the original intent of 501c was also valid. It was designed to prevent unscrupulous profiteering by the government off of charitable donations, and well as helping to ensure the liberty of conscience for church members by protecting them from being targeted with excessive or punitive taxation.

Separation of church and state is not as easy as people sometime make it out to be. While 501c registration does open the door for abuse, it also opens the door for large scale work to be done without government interference. The news tends to only print the scandals, but I suspect by in large the law has enabled charitable work to be accomplished that might not otherwise be funded. Statistics have traditionally shown that the largest and most charitable donor base in the US are conservative Christians, despite their misrepresentation as being socially unconcerned and materially close-fisted by liberal media. (On a side note, there is also recent research showing that specifically bible reading Christians are not only the most charitable segment of our society, but also have the least debt.)

It may be that the intolerance for Christianity in this country will eventually lead to some heretofore unwritten tyrannical code of beliefs and conduct for 501c churches, but that day is not here yet. It is my belief that if 501c status was closed for churches, it would represent a significant loss of religious liberty in this country. As the axiom says, the power to tax, is the power to destroy. Those "ministries" who are abusing their exemption from this power will have to answer to the Lord. For everyone else, I think the law allows more good then bad.

MC

thanks guys certain ministries a lot i see sending my family letters of love and other criteria and almost beg for donation making sure to tell them its tax deducible others do the faith based thing i guess JESUS would say. Just let me handle it i think thats what Mueller did.Love on

The thought is that churches and other such charitable organizations provide so much benefit, that taxing them would actually hurt the community. Thus, they are not taxed.

Really? Something should be taxed because it occupies space?

That is absurd, sorry to be blunt.

No, the Church should not be taxed, because it is not owned by Caesar. The very nature of taxation is declaring sovereignty over a good or service. The State does not own the Church and the Church should not give tribute to the State.

As is, aside from a poll tax, I don't believe the State should tax individuals. As a culture, we have rejected God and want a king to rule over us, hence the Messianic character of our government and its willingness and our willingness to submit to them taking more than a tithe.

How many churches are you truly involved in? I know plenty of churches that give a lot of money away and individuals within those churches that give a lot of their time away.

I find it a bald assertion that the church doesn't do any such charitable work these days, and an assertion that borders on bearing false testimony.

Yes, people who pay their taxes do a considerable amount of giving, but it depends on your definiton of "not hurt, but blessed."

Overall, I believe the economy is actually hurt by taxation and it lowers everyones standards of living, so, yes, I think people, including the poor, are hurt by such actions. Perhaps you think it is a blessing to be coerced into a lower standard of living by people that think they know how to run the world, but I don't.

hi,this negative and incorrect view of the church which Jesus is the head of is getting old to this very old man.the beauty of the church has been demonstrated thoughout louisiana and baton rouge...my city...the church i attend when able is in fellowship with many other churches in this area and promotes the other churches and has in the past written 6 figure checks to them when they were in need. last year we had a storm that came thru and you would not believe how wonderful the churches came together to help others in the city...so much so we laughed and prayed for more storms. we have a food distribution center,home for unwed future moms,have started 20000 churches around the world in the last ten years with millions of souls being saved...we have ministry to the poor... the closest church to us we are in fellowship with was honored by pres.bush as having the most impact on the drug community in the nation...preach the message of the cross and average about 20 baptisms a week.i could write for another hour and would not cover how beautiful the church of Jesus in my area is.jimp

1 Timothy 2:1-3 (New International Version)

1 Timothy 2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior

1 Peter 2:13-14 (New International Version)

Submission to Rulers and Masters
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

Yes i know some would say "the devil is using the governments of the earth to fight Gods people" to which i say our lord and our king and commander in chief gave us the heads up already this should not surprise us i don't live in the USA but whether its 501c or unrepentant openly Gay bishops being ordained the enemy will use whatever tool at his disposal but be of good cheer little children for greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world.

For the one who has diligently researched this,to be neutral or indifferent regarding the lawfulness (i.e. God's Law) thereof,could nor would be able to be so with a pure and good conscience.

If any would like to read these lengthy documents they're available online.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1023.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1023.pdf

With the application to file for 501c3 there is also a fee required.

One would not be wise to answer such a question re: 501c3 before doing the proper research.

Below is from an article posted[not written]by Guy Malone:

History Of Our New Nation: One of the reason people came to the new land was to get away from the entanglements of the old world. Quite a few of the reasons dealt with the issue of church and state. People where fleeing a repressive regime where there was a state-sponsored church or the church was running the governments. It was bad enough that people picked up and left. Now we seem to be returning to what our forefathers left on our own free will. We are taking a license to preach from the state, being told what we can and can't say. One of the things that inspired Patrick Henry's speech "Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" was, he saw a man being beaten for preaching the gospel without a license. If we forget history we are doomed to repeat it. We as Christians need to wake up and take a stand. One thing that sticks in my mind is when I got married : "By the power vested in me by God and the State of California I now...."

What Do I Do Now?
(This section will not be favored by corporate Pastor/Ministers.)

1. You became incorporated, become unincorporated.
2. Talk to your Pastor/Minister about this important issue.
3. Rescind your membership in an incorporated church.
4. Don't incorporate.
5. Don't support incorporated churches.
6. Find an unincorporated church.
7. Start an unincorporated church.
8. Study Your Bible Daily.
9. Pray for the Body of Christ.
10. Witness and lead people to a personal relationship with Jesus.

Hi Savannah,

"We are taking a license to preach from the state, being told what we can and can't say."

I'm not incredulous that the US Government would want to control free speech and doctrine within churches, but I've not heard of cases where this is actually happening. I'm familiar with the pressure of political correctness, but not with true state-control of churches here in this country.

To your point, if a church organization is not needing to handle large sums of money, then I would agree that it seems much better to stay unregistered with the state. However, to say you shouldn't support "incorporated churches" is placing a non-bliblical legalism on the conscience of the saints. I understand the application of Patrick Henry's words to this situation, but we need to acknowledge that many large charities are brining honor to God by the work they are doing here and abroad.

Indeed, even the founders of Plymouth Colony sought state sanction through a royal charter and partnered with a commercial company to obtain funding and a land patent. (Yet these arrangements didn't offer control of their pulpit or conscience.) It isn't a perfect world, but working within the bounds of secular law can hardly be compared with being part of a state-run church controlled by a "repressive regime".

If we could be shown case-studies that the US Government is actively dictating to churches what they can and cant say, then I think it would be time to go underground. I share everyones concern over this issue. I also commend vigilance against this very real possibility given the political and philosophic gains that socialism seems to be making this country. However, I have not seen that state-controlled religion is presently the reality we live under. I am willing to be shown that I am mistaken.

Mike