By His Stripes You Are Healed

by Heydave on 2010/8/4 2:06:29

Now I believe that God can and does heal folk today, but this confession and claiming 'I am already healed' is new age nonsense!

1 Peter 2:24 - 25 says " who Himself bore our SINS in His body on the tree, that we, having DIED TO SINS. might LIVE FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS - by whose stripes you were healed.
------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Dave,

i suppose it's new age nonesense to say Jesus already has forgiven all my sins?

"...Were healed," not will be healed.

Even as Jesus bore our sins 2000 years ago, so he as well bore all sickness and disease and death in His forging this New Covenant.

When you sin, Jesus does not go to the cross again, as Romanism promotes in their mass of eucharist.

Neither does He have to be beaten bloody (again) to heal you.

All the fogiveness and healing happened almost 2000 years ago.

These things come by resting our trust in Jesus, no matter the way things appear to be.

Granted, the confession mentioned, without the admission that you body is sick is denial of the facts...yet we are to look towards that which we cannot see, and not the temporal. The temporal is changing; but the eternal realities established already remain fact: ONLY BELIEVE.

Abram began calling himeself "Father-of-many-nations" 25 years before his only son Isaac was born. Is that new age nonesense, too?

We have a more sure Word: Jesus; having already fulfilled -(recievable by grace through faith)- these things promised by God.

Love, Hope, and Faith,
gregg

...I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Acts 20:31-32

by Heydave on 2010/8/4 6:56:55

Phanetheus wrote:

i suppose it's new age nonesense to say Jesus already has forgiven all my sins?

OK I suppose I deserved a response like that, given my provocative statement!
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not irritated.
Reading that had me rolling on the floor laughing...literally.

When contending with family members who are of the persuasion that all the healings and miracles ended with the first apostles, they get upset with me. It's a closed subject with them now. They are holding on to their sicknesses and diseases, and i will continue to remain in Christ.
(How can one be sick if they are in Christ? Is Christ sick?)

Without exception, God has always healed me, often miraculously. He always will, and if i don't see it happen right away, i'm still going to tell you God will always heal you, just because He has promised this. Even if He doesn't, nobody will never change my mind. God is always true to His Word, namely Jesus Christ.
____________________________________________________________

However you are assuming that the payment for sins and sickness are all on the same level and that sickness was included in the atonement. I don't believe they are the same or that it is included in the same way.
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not assuming. It's what the Bible says.

Sin, sickness, disease, death, physical damages, whether disaster or bodily injury...none of these things are the same; however, they are all a result of the curse of the Law beginning with man's fall in the garden.

"...Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree..." (Gal 3.13).

All the mishaps mentioned after sin two paragraphs above are a result of Adam's sin, as is eternal punishment.

Why should someone set free from sin have to continually bear the consequences of Adam's sin?
____________________________________________________________

The penalty (eternal punishment) for sin has been paid for, but while we are still in this earthly body we can still sin. Our spirit is made new, but we don't get a new body until the resurection. Therefore the result of sin still effects our mortal body, otherwise we would not die or need a new resurected body.
------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, yur right. We can still sin and we can still get injured, and we can still come down with ailments... but in any of these cases, we do not have to continue to wallow in them.

If we trust God will restore us, He does. IF we don't trust in Him to restore us, He doesn't. (It's as simple as that.)

The word salvation is an all inclusive word, in the Greek meaning deliverance, wholeness, and preservation...and the Bible is chock-full of examples of all the things God has done for those who rely on Him...and freedom from sin is just one part of the whole.

Salvation, in whatever aspect is appropriated through resting our confidence in, and relying on God to do as He says He will do.
____________________________________________________________

I think there is a long dicussion on this subject from previous days, so probably not worth going over the 'is healing in the atonement' argument again.
------------------------------------------------------------

While we are still in this earthly body we can still sin and we can still suffer various physical maladies, whether physical injury or ailments of whatever sort.

For these things, God also promises time and again that He will make us whole. Incarnate on earth, Jesus did just what He saw His Father do, and we can rely on this as an example of what God will always do for those who believe He will do as He has always done.
............................................................
Personally, i'm not up for any discussions on the subject. This mind is fixed on what Jesus did, and experience proves it. It is man who has severed wholeness from the atonement, not God.

Now we have the real deal, but the shadow of this is the passover, and what did God provide as a result? In exodus out of bondage, from 12 tribes, over 2,000,000 people ranging from babies to elderly with all their livestock:

He smote also all the firstborn in their land, the chief of all their strength. He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes. Egypt was glad when they departed: for the fear of them fell upon them. Psalm 105.36-38

You don't have to believe it, yet according to what you believe is truly available from God, it shall be that way for you. IF all you want to do is trust God to save you and your household (from sin), that's good, because i'll see you in the kingdom that day.

All i'm saying is that there is alot more to a relationship with Abba in Jesus Christ than becoming moral according to God's standards. Believe it or not there are benefits that show the watching world just how glorous God is, for beyond what we have desired...and they do not have to remain as some pie-in-the-sky future.

Through Jesus finished work on Golgatha, regarding healing, only a few of the more astounding things that have manifested through God's hand on this body follow.

Jesus healed me completely from:

...punctured lungs, bruised kidneys and internal bleeding

...severe brain damage, resulting in amnesia and uni-polar mania

Hi Franklin.

It may have been well explained, and possibly a time will come when i see that some things said were wrong; yet, as this narrow path becomes more narrow, there is more freedom in Christ with a clearer and clearer vision of things to come, with greater and greater blessings in this present existence.

God Bless.
g

Phanetheus, if I may ask, why did you have surgery on your broken leg? Was it a lack of faith on your part?

What you assert is so sure (that God will always heal those who have faith to receive, and that as sin is instantly, yea, already done away with, so is sickness), and yet you seek men and his medicine.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sin and sickness were defeated when Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED."

We can walk in this or not.

Even as walking a continual overcoming life where sin has no dominion over you, so it is with everything else God has made complete provision for in the cross.

Some things are instant and other things take time.

We get a clue about this in James:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas. 1.17-18, 21

filthiness are things that remain --after resting our reliance in Him-- that are unclean by God's ideal.

We are redeemed,yes. However, we are saved from what we rest our trust in Him towards...and then some things he surprises us with.

'Superfluity of naughtiness' in the KJV is 'earwax' in the Greek. This is the residue from sin that can still taint us and make us unable to hear and accordingly believe what God promises.

Every instance i ended up in the hospital, 3 in all, i was either unconscious (2wice) or so disoriented, others family members made the decisions and signed the release forms and what-not so that doctors could do what they have learned to do.

These situations ended up being times when God stepped in and proved to the medicine men that they could never do what He does swiftly.

Miracles occur faster than normal. All of God's healing may or may not occur this way.
People often confuse this issue.

To go to the doctor is never a lack of faith for anyone, so long as they are relying on God and not the doctor.

Stand Up for Jesus
...The arm of flesh will fail you,
Ye dare not trust your own...

Faith is relative to relationship, and yes, it was a lack of faith(fulness) that put me there in the first place.

Was it a lack of belief in God?
HARDLY!
i failed Him and was walking in my own way. He never fails.
____________________________________________________________

I am not at all doubting that God has miraculously worked in your life for physical healing, clearly you have a marvelous testimony.
------------------------------------------------------------
God is better than just good by earthly standards.

Praise our LORD!

It's not looked at it as my testimony anymore. It's more like just a small part of God's proof that He is always there and He is never silent.

Others can only affirm this or doubt...

...but they can experience such of the very same because God doesn't care who you are or what you have done. He just wants everyone to be in relationship with Him, to know and understand Him.

God is fully more than complete kindness and love, justice, and right in everything He considers, says, and does.

____________________________________________________________

Just seeking to better understand your theology, as it appears that when it is pressed to the limits, it doesn't pass through the other side unscathed. (Genuine question:) Were these instances a lack of faith?
------------------------------------------------------------

I really hate that word theology as this has turned out to be man's story about God. Can any man put Him in a box, or a book for that matter? There is the letter and then there is His Spirit. They may for themselves box off God, resulting from or due to unbelief, but He will not hesitate to work where there is dependent confidence IN HIM and need.

i don't understand it all, but i KNOW HIM, Yaweh Rapha.

...learning all the time...
jimp stated my sentiments exactly, yet i will trust Him.

We do not rely on sentiments.

If i don't know, i'll tell you plainly.

Ask away.

Jesus Himself has declared, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”  So we can boldly confess: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear ...
Heb 13:6

We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp. Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach. For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come. Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name. But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.

Amen.

Heb. 13.10-16,20-21 (NKJV)

by Heydave on 2010/8/5 8:20:09

That's exactly my point...who are we to tell God that He must heal us, especially if I confess it and exercise 'my faith'. I would rather entrust my life to God and let Him decide what I need. Maybe He may need to use an illness or broken limb to teach us or discipline us! Rather we get right spiritually than enter heaven empty in perfect health!

Now I would like you to understand that I am all for trusting God for our health and healing. I ask the LORD to give me health and strength every day. If I am sick I am open for prayer for God's healing. What I am disputing is that it is a 'done deal'; that my healing is a past reality and I just need to believe I am healed and confess it to get it. I can ask my Father for what I want, but have to trust that He knows what is best for me. Sometimes we need to go through things and not always be delivered from them. This is how we grow.

I been there with the Health and prosperity deception and worn the T shirt. I'm glad to be out of that junk.

------------------------------------------------------------
I would NEVER tell God He had to do anything; but i do trust what He reveals in the Bible.

It's about thinking and speaking and doing as God has designed for you to be: IN HIM. We conform to the image of His dear Son, from glory to glory.

To think that we can make God do anything is just plain stupid.

We don't have to tell God he must heal us. He said I AM. This is never my faith i am exercising. He is faithful. He as well, brings me to the point of faithfulness in Him.

To say i'm letting God decide, as if my circumstance were greater than God's promises, would, (for me at least,) to be calling God a liar.

(Don't get caught in the valley of indecision. It is dark. There is no noon nor Son.)

We don't go forward by accepting what God has given His Son's life to free us from.

On the straight and narrow, there is always someone ahead of us. His name is Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith(fulness). He is whom we have to do, the Judge and justice over all the earth. Look to Him continuously.

It isn't about what i want. God's Word (Jesus) is His will, and He says HE is our healing. It seems many think this is only referring to physical ailments, and perhaps a better term would be wholeness. When we entrust our lives to His will for us, and this is hardly just naming it and claiming it, he restores us according to His commitment towards His purposes alone. We have to be willing to recieve, yet without being sure that God will make us whole, it is not going to happen.

Now i am none for that confession game, thinking i can just blab it and grab it is pure foolishness and hinges on what you previously stated: new age. The only thing a mantra does is cause demonic posession. That confirming God's word with my(?) word is a misplacement of who is in authority, and is nothing less than idolatry. With it comes severe spiritual detriment. It's not about believing i am healed, but that i believe in God who always has and ever does heal. This is one revelation of His name = essence.

Through no devising of my own, from early childhood God has walked and talked with me. I resisted salvation from sin until the age of 14, yet he was always present with me to direct my steps whether i listened or not.

There did come a point in time when He told me, Gregg, enough is enough. I have been so patient with you, putting up with your self-willed ways. I have taught you what to do, and you have been revealed truth time and again, yet you just step on it like it was nothing. Familiarity with me leaves no room for contempt...
... and judgement fell.

i have gone through so much disciplining from that point until about 8 years ago (over 11 years). Your average joe would definitely be dead.

This disciplining was all about doing what He spoke to me irregardless of whatever...and the learning still continues.

He never ever stopped leading me and loving me though i am one of those from early youth that determined what i said goes: my way or the highway. Being a strong-willed child is an extreme understatement. If i lived under the Old Covenant, no doubt i would have been stoned early on.

What no man or government could control, God has the final Word here. He began working with me and He will finish it.

More than all else that can be accounted for, it (still) is the persistent prayers of my mother that i cannot get out of this head, and have assisted me through both supplications and interceeding to God.

Jesus is fine-tuning me.

God knows what is best for us, yes. The scriptures reveal Thee Word (Jesus) to us.

Sometimes we have to go through things?
How about always?
(i am thouroughly convinced that as we grow, we experience adversity accordingly. No problems? Best take a good look at yourself and see what side of the fence you're on. The devil does not oppose those who are coveteous and do not live godly.)

It's not about thinking our belief will get the job done. It's not about repeating the right mantra.

God in His good grace may do for you as you say and believe, but the question really is, "where is your heart?"

I do not blame God for any evil that befalls. It is not His fault. He made all things good.

There is no way anybody can get me to trust God to make me sick, or diseased or any other problem.

It is not God's good pleasure to make us suffer.
Is that abundant life?

The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy.
Is God a thief?

Rather, see Jesus, through His death as our wholeness. He gave His body for the life of the world, not the death.

He pored out His blood for our redemption and reconciliation to God. By His propitiatory sacrafice, ALL the promises of God are 'yea' and 'amen' --(that is to say, 'yes' and 'i am confidently relying that God does as He says').

Identifying yourself in Jesus, according with Phillipians 2 and in Romans 6 is what makes these good things real in our lives.

We die in Him so that we live out His Life in Him.
------------------------------------------------------------
i went to a full gospel church more than 20 y-eraz ago, and when they started into the Word of Faith message, God showed in many ways that it was best for me to leave them to their devices. This is what i did and have only benefitted from this decision.

God never told me yea nor nay regarding the Word of Faith message. i take that back. He told me but i wasn't listening...so He showed me.

From a week long series of Kenneth Copeland meetings in Nashville, on the last day, he was heard saying that Jesus became a sinner and was born again in hell.

For the life of me, i still do not know why so many of that church continued in that deception, when they were all told and shown that this was a lie from the pit of hell itself. There were other things that hardly sat right within, but that was the last straw.

Why would any of God's ministers deny what God really did, unless they do not understand?
Kenneth knows better or is truly decieved.

i bravely RAN away.
------------------------------------------------------------

God Bless you
as you hash
all this out,
gregg

____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________

Passion

Within my mind's eye
Flickering from the past
Come images that terrify and calm
A paradox in me

Nail pierced hands they run with blood
A splitting brow forced by the thorns
His face is writhing with the pain
yet it's comforting to me

He chose to give it all
Jesus endured the pain
Paying a debt I owed
and created
a paradox in me

Nail pierced hands they run with blood
A splitting brow forced by the thorns
His face is writhing with the pain
yet it's comforting to me

And in my heart I know that you're the only one
Who could of came and died, a sacrifice
As your God's only son

Nail pierced hands they run with blood
A splitting brow forced by the thorns
His face is writhing with the pain
yet it's comforting to me

~Kutless

edited 4 you

by BeYeDoers on 2010/8/5 7:46:13

Where does death fit into the picture?

Do you anticipate never having heart failure, heart attack, lung failure, cancer, etc. that will end up taking your life? Everyone that is walking in the truth of God our Healer will only ever die of "oldness" but not sickness?

We are completely healed of sickness, but we will not be delivered from death until we die?
------------------------------------------------------------

We are all sinning all the time whether we care to admit it or do not recognize it.

Rom. 3:23 in the KJV is a mistranslation and several other verses confirm what it really says," For all are continually sinning and continnualy fall short of God's glorious ideal."

With this in mind consider God's proclaimation through the prophet, "the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

Not everybody is redeemed from sin.
Yet even the redeemed sin.

Not everybody is healed.
yet, even the redeemed get ailments.

Not everybody lives in eternal life:
--("And death and hell were cast
into the lake of fire.
This is the second death." Rev 20.14)--
yet, even the redeemed die...
...and by what means is not neccessarily of our choosing.

As far as the failures go, i did have lung failure b4, lasting 12 minutes.

i have been through the gates of death 2wice during the timespan of one accident and recovery. i want to go back.

How'z dat?

Shalom,
gregg

edited 2 4 U