A short video on speaking in tongues.

The following video explains about the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge.

Speaking In Tongues Part A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6fIUpvZUI

God bless,
Mick

Watched the video but too much was read into scripture for it to be hermeutically sound exegesis. The work was started with a bias and not led of the Holy Spirit.

*let he who is spiritual discern all spiritual things*

In my humble opinion it is not a Holy Spirit inspired exegesis. More like the opinion of academia. As the bible says the carnal mind can not understand the things of the spirit.

If Gifts have stopped then what about the edification of Christ church through the gifts of the Spirit?

How does the Holy Spirit bring unification of the Body of Christ without gifts?

When Jesus said he will not leave us comfortless, but would send ANOTHER, and the holy Spirit would be our teacher and comforter and tell us of things to come(prophesy) how does the holy spirit perform this ministry in light of the gifts being ceased?

Hermeneutical observations / Trickery

1.
προφητεία
prophēteia
prof-ay-ti'-ah
prediction (scriptural or other): - prophecy, prophesying.

the context of prophesy is not limited to scriptural prophesy. It also includes the foretelling of events as Jesus promised. So while in one context the cannon being complete might suggest the end of all biblical prophesy it does not imply directly that the gift of prophesy for the foretelling of events has in anyway ceased. To lump the two together is very deceptive and dangerous hermeneutics.

2.
1 Corinthians 13:9-13 (New International Version)

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Interpreting perfection coming as the completing of the cannon is also inaccurate.

Paul is making an eschatological(Kingdom now-kingdom yet to come) argument.

perfection is not come when the cannon is complete but rather when Jesus returns. The proof of this is found in verse 12

"12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

THEN WE SHALL SEE FACE TO FACE

a:) when perfection is come we shall see face to face.
b:) then I shall know fully EVEN AS I AM FULLY KNOWN

until Jesus Christ returns we cannot fully know as we cannot yet SEE FACE TO FACE.

If Paul was implying a complete cannon was when perfection has come how could he say this if he was dead before the cannon was complete?

If we know the final canonization by John was the book of revelation and both peter and paul were dead before the final canonization then "perfection comes" by logic would not be a complete canon as they were not guaranteed to see it completed in their lives.

Pauls arguments are clearly eschalogical his hope was not in a complete canon but in having FACE TO FACE KOINOIA with Jesus thats why he said "Even as i am known"

The entire New T is clear on what our hope is.

He knew God in part (Koinoia) but he hoped to be resurrected and KNOW God Fully even as he was know by God fully this is alluding to eternal life. That is the everlasting knowledge and fellowship with God in the kingdom of our lord God.

John 17:3 (New International Version)

3 Now this is eternal life: that they may KNOW you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

I have tried to keep this response as short as possible without turning into a long theological debate.

The gifts of the Spirit have not ceased.
Jesus speaking in Revelation which is the final book of the cannon in chapters 2 and 3 Repeats the Phrase "Let he who has an ear HEAR what the Spirit is saying to the churches"

The Holy Spirit is the earnest or deposit of our salvation by which we have a foretaste of eternal life. His ministry on earth has not ended. Those who falsely peddle this belief do so based on a faulty exegesis of what they believe pauls was saying yet when you examine such exegetical work in light of sound hermeutical principles it doesnt hold up.

Scripture interprets scripture anything the scripture does not explicitly state as a clear cut exposition is simply the work of man and must be viewed as such. Many men will wrongly divide God word thats a given but i will say to all you read this post the only authority on scriptural truth is the Spirit of Christ that resides in us.

1 John 2:26-37 (New International Version)

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

I would ask you a simple question how is your fellowship with the Holy Spirit?

as paul says

"may the grace of our lord jesus chirst, the love of God and the fellowship of the holy spirit be with us NOW and FOREVERMORE"

stay blessed

Watched the video, prefer not to comment.

Can guess where this is headed.

Strange choice for a first post.

This Video is against the scripture and from the pit of hell. Repent!

This Video is against the scripture and from the pit of hell. Repent!

Wow! I don't know if I'd go that far, but this video does seem a bit absurd!

I guess he would believe that the many who experience these gifts today are at best confused. There are even many men of God on this website who have received the gifts of tongues, prophecy, or knowledge.

Brothers lets not reason away with our carnal minds everything supernatural!

1. How can you see FACE TO FACE with the bible? That is impossible. so the "Perfect" cannot be "scriptures" or "Bible" - it is only possible when JESUS HAS COME. That is the time when we don't need spiritual gifts. Until he hasn't come, we have the HOLY SPIRIT, who gives us gifts as he choses.

2. In Eph 4 we read the purpose, for what the Holy Spirit gives us the gifts and ministries. First, the scriptures says in Eph 4,8 that Jesus died on the cross so that we can have spiritual gifts. If you deny the gifts or interpret in the scriptures that we don't need them, you are actually disregarding the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary. That is not a light thing, that speaks of a very evil heart! There you must repent.

3. In Eph 4:11-13 it is written: He GAVE some apostles, prophets, ... TILL

This speaks of the exact time, when there will be ministries (and with the ministries also gifts) of the spirit operating on earth. He gives this operations, till something happens:

Eph 4,13 TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT man... The ministries are UNTIL HIS CHURCH will be PERFECT (same word as in Cor 13). From that we are very far away. Therefore we need the gifts now in this time. When the church is perfect, Jesus will com efor his bride without spots and wrinkles.

This is the WORD OF GOD. You cannot change it. The Word of God does not contradict itself. According to your interpretation it would contradict. The gifts are for the perfecting of the church. He will have a pure bride! The Word of God is the Word of God and it will never change!!! The Word of God will never bow to the opinions of men!

Well, the video was made by him so he has an agenda and it's against the gift of divers tongues!!

Also for anyone that is interested!!!.....

I came across a wonderful book on books.google.com by a Methodist minister who believed whole-heartedly in the baptism of the Holy Spirit! It was written in 1895! The gifts of the Spirit take a back seat to the gift of the Holy Spirit! It's incredible, I recommend anyone to read this work of God!

Mick, this would be a good book for you to read too!

Pentecostal Papers; or, The Gift of the Holy Ghost
by Samuel Ashton Keen

http://books.google.com/books?id=-wc3AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=samuel+ashton+keen&hl=en&ei=
VItgTJWyKsTflgfDt7GZCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=
0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
(be sure and take out the returns in the second & third lines of address)

You can also find his other books, Faith Papers, Praise Papers, and Salvation Papers (this one is not on google).

God bless,
Lisa

Haven't we seen this before?

Someone comes along, posts something, cause ill feeling, division, disputes, and then disappears, not replying to anything?

And the damage is done.

Scripture tells us to not be ignorant of satan's devices.

Let's continue to absorb the word of God daily, for strength and refreshing. God is worthy.

God bless.

No offense to you all but isn't it quick to assume this individuals agenda is to destroy or divide? Looking at how most people operate that are rational we all are looking for some kind of truth some of us are misinformed or have our thinking mixed up and confused. So anyone who hasn't been mixed up theological please cast the first stone. :) I say this in much love for you all that the truth will be revealed and presented through you but without Love you are a resounded gong.

Being quick to judge the intent of this man's heart is definitely not our place so unless the Lord Himself has told you or Mick has told you his intent is to destroy and divide you then I wouldn't jump to that quick of a conclusion. Mick maybe a drive by poster or a one hit poster but we can't assume that, what if he isn't and then comes back to see the things you have all posted about him with him unable to explain or defend himself? Would you enjoy that being doing or said about you? I know I wouldn't.

I am not saying this to be holier than thou but to try and point to a better option then casting theology and verbal tongue lashings for this man. Just because I disagree with him doesn't mean my love for him changes.

God Bless,
Matthew

See. It's working already.

Hey Matthew,

Normally, I'm right there with you brother... defending the innocent! I don't know if you followed his link or not but I did and it was created and posted by a "christianissues" on youtube and I think they are one in the same but that doesn't mean I hate him by revealing this.

On to the next question... Have you ever debated with people on youtube? Wow! It's much worse (x 100) than here on sermonindex, I have debated with many who put up that proganda against the gifts in operation today and it's exhausting, so I've stopped!

I'm just saying, a person doesn't create "those kinds" of videos on youtube unless they WANT to debate their point and since christianissues is new here, I believe he posted this to see how well it would be received - to test the waters so to speak! To see if we needed him to show us the way!! (wink wink)

But I do encourage you to follow his link and read his responses to those who disagree with him; and you too, might come to the conclusion that he's NOT "misinformed" or mixed up theologically!! I think he knows what he's doing! Again, just sayin'....

God bless you Matthew!!! If I'm going down the wrong road, I will not hesitate to repent or apologize.

Lysa

(edited for clarity)

I understand what you are saying. I have debated on youtube and other like sites and I have found they get no where, whether we want to admit this or not it gets the same way here on SI with the debating. Everyone has an opinion and most would like to put it out there unfortnately these debates are unprofittable a good portion of the time because when it comes to knowledge and ones opinion Pride generally gets puffed up.

My only warning is to not be so quick to judge a complete stranger, new thing the Lord is working with me on (crazy concept eh?:) I use to be quick to "defend the truth" but the truth can stand on its own and doesn't need me to help it stand. I now try to strive to understand why someone believes a certian way they believe that way for a reason and if you can figure it out then you can at least understand why they think such ways, maybe Mick had a poor experience with Tongues and the gifts and could use a person that can help remove the improper thinking he has developed.

I love this site and the people on it I have grown a lot from the fellowship I have received, if I have over stepped my bounds then I will gladly repent. :)

God Bless,
Matthew

, maybe Mick had a poor experience with Tongues and the gifts

I cannot speak for Mick, but from my observation this is always the case - those that have seen counterfeit gifts operating will get so upset at how people are sucked into this whorl of deception by supernatural acts that they will actively preach against it. Bentley is an extreme case in point.

Perhaps a good post would be that would inform the readers on how one can discern between the counterfeit and the genuine. The counterfeits appear in many places: the cults, the churches...

ginnyrose wrote:
Perhaps a good post would be that would inform the readers on how one can discern between the counterfeit and the genuine. The counterfeits appear in many places: the cults, the churches...

ginny,

I really don't think there is one answer for what you wrote (which was excellent by the way), I will try to explain how I do my best to watch for the counterfeit and this isn't the only way but this is how the Lord has shown me. and kept me. I humbly submit two ways but I know there are many more so feel free to add everyone!!

Number one is to stay in and study the Word, now I realize that everyone study's from their perspective (I like to call it a bandwagon and I've rode many bandwagon's in my 32 years of following the Lord). As human beings and being born in sin, we tend to read the Bible from our experiences, our arguments, our hurts, our joys, and even our lusts. When we can honestly grow in Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit rise above those things, we can read His word free from all bias.

Number two helps us get to that place... "receiving the love of the truth," (2 Thess 2.10) from what the Jesus through the Holy Spirit speaks to us ABOUT US... about our behavior, about our thoughts, about how we read the Bible and why we read the Bible, and about why we treat other people the way we do but it is all about us and no one else. One on one time with Jesus (It's me oh Lord standing in the need of prayer!).

Zac Poonen's sermon, Lovers of Truth (address below) confirmed my belief about receiving the love of the truth and I highly recommend it to everyone to listen to it again and again.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4268&commentView=itemComments
(remove the 'return' after the period)

God bless you,
Lisa

mguldner wrote:
I use to be quick to "defend the truth" but the truth can stand on its own and doesn't need me to help it stand.

Amen brother, you are absolutely correct!

You have not overstepped your bounds and brother, you not not repent! You keep on defending!!

God bless you Matt!!!
Lisa