Religion teaches everone sins, so I guess the bible is wrong ?

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT SIN, because he is born of God."
This verse is ignored by Christian leaders, Why? Since when do men of God NOT preach the written Word?

I have been accused of twisting the Word of God by some that post here, but is it because they love religion more than God or is the above verse wrong? Check to SEE what is written in your bible. Religious leaders twist the Word of God to suit their doctrines like
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
NOTICE: the first verse is talking to Born-Again Chrictians, but the second is talking to unrepented men.

You don't teach the second verse and leave out the first verse.
NOW before you religious people start to post your infinite wisdom, look at this verse;

1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

I guess this verse was added to twist what I'm saying?

Angry about something?

"We deceive ourselves."

I am no language scholar, but were I to write a sentence which includes a tense such that I myself am included in the exhortation by using a word like "ourselves." I am not directing the exhortation beyond myself.

In other words...John included himself in that exhortation.

Are you calling him an unrepentant sinner?

Actually, I saw this and thought, 'forget it'.

We aren't going to get anywhere.

So why bother?

Egrow, Great question.

It's really simpler than you think and simpler than religion makes it.

According to GOD'S eyes, if you are in Christ, He sees NO sin.

Though humans make mistakes and such, Salvation is Still always by Faith. Never forget, it's by Faith.

No condemnation to those who sin. In Jesus, they are perfect. You always have the Faith live IN Jesus and then the life we still live in the body.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

First of all, whose "his seed", is this? It is the God Seed, The Incorruptable Seed of the Father. Who is the Word? John 1 says The Word was God, Jesus Christ. Who is "in him"? It is Both Christ and the Born Again, by the Incorruptable Seed. 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Notice this "Word" is in the Greek; "logos" not "hraymah", one is living the other is written. So we are born again of the incorruptable Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ and He cannot SIN. This is our born from above position to the Father and This Christ that is in us cannot sin. The Spirit of Christ cannot sin, and He is now our Spirit, satan out and Christ birthed in us, new creatures in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Who is sinning? "My little Children" and "any man". This is not the Spirit of Christ that is born again in us that cannot sin, this is man still in the Flesh with the old mind that is being renewed to the Mind of Christ, the old mind can still use the old sinful body pulls and sin.

BUT; WOW, "we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

This is why God is faithful and JUST to forgive this flesh, "any man" that sins, and cleanses from all unrighteousness.

Now these scruptures can reconcile the truth.

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. This is the ANY MAN, who is still in the flesh.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. This is the "Born From Above" that cannot sin, which is the Spirit of Christ in us.

Always put together 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 3:9 and remember what is in between. 1 John 3:2-3 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Pure birthed Seed in us cannot sin, flesh still can.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

In Christ: Phillip

I used to believe like this. What a sad way to live out the Christian life.

Believing properly will result in right living.

Have you ever sinned since you believed? So, does that mean you are magically outside of fellowship with God?

What got you in fellowship in the first place? So if it was Faith, then God deals with us about our Faith. If our Faith is shifted from Jesus and His Cross and it goes to self's power, we fail and sin. If Faith is in the Cross of Christ, God sees NO condemnation upon us since the power of sin was broken at the Cross. Sin was already judged at the Cross.

Most of the time when you see the word SIN in the Word, it is the Sin Nature that it is speaking about. Our sin nature wants to shift our Faith to self and works of acting right.

That's all I'm saying.

Many so called "loving Christians" beat one another up if they don't do exactly like them. This is now how God works.

Is Jesus Christ in any sense of the Word, have any sin in Him?

Is Christ birthed in the believer?

By whose Seed?

We must separate soul and spirit and body if we are to understand the Spirit of Christ in the believers spirit, which used to be of our father satan, but is now of our Father God, by the Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Hebrews 4:9-16 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the (((dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,))) and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

What are we to "obtain"?

Once we understand the the Spirit of Christ is now our spirit life and the Holy Spirit is our soul life, then we can understand why the body has to be quickened to contain Godliness, of which we are now an Holy Temple unto the Lord.
We still must die and receive our new bodies of flesh and bone, not blood this time, for the "life of the flesh is in the blood." This blood we have in the flesh is corrupt and must be killed, like our spirit is now the spirit of Christ, and our soul is the learning center, the mind will and emotions that the Holy Spirit brings all things that Christ says to our remembrance and even the things we don't understand He will teach us. We are saved in spirit, complete. We are being saved in our soul/mind to the soul and mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit renewing of our minds of which we are commanded to work in that renewal, by studing to show ourselves approved unto God.

No Christ Spirit, no salvation. No Holy Spirit, no revelation and understanding of the Christ that is now birthed in us. No quickening of the flesh body, the Holiness of Christ and the Holy Spirit would completely destroy the sinful flesh of which we will be renewed into a body just like that of Jesus Christ that we might enter the Kingdom boldly even as we are to enter it now spiritually.

1 Peter 3:21-22 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Not the water but that we are being made subject unto Him.
"For we are all baptized into one Spirit."

Spirit, soul and body: 2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that He will yet deliver us;

Spirit, delivered. Soul, being delivered, "doth". Body, "will yet deliver".

Without the Spirit of Christ in us we are not saved or are in any way son's of God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This only make it more important for us to follow the Teaching of The Holy Spirit to live a Holy Life a blameless life before the Father, not by works but by the Life of Christ in us and our Love for Him, for what He has done.

That is why this mystery of Christ in you was so important to Paul and gave his life even as his Savior, for His sake gave His.

Colossians 1:24-25 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, ((and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake,)) (added: even Paul's death) which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Are we labouring, striving according to His working, which worketh in us mightily or are we working in our own works, which avail nothing?

In Christ Jesus, presented perfect to, "our Father": Phillip

There is only One Man that God is well pleased with, it is He that is birthed in me and I depend on Him to make me pleasing to God, "our Father", even The "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Yet again Context is KING it will always reign supreme in interpreting scriptures.

I am so glad that this thread was started. I wanted to address this issue my self last week because of a conversation I had with my sister.

Although I had always believed that she came to salvation when she was sixteen, she told me on Saturday that she had only been saved for two years. When I asked her why she believes that, she responded that she knows that she is really a Christian now because she has not sinned for two years.

She doesn't believe that she was really a Christian before because of the very scripture "egrow" quotes:

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT SIN, because he is born of God."

Now she says she knows that she is "really" saved because she no longer sins. Period. (her words, not mine)

Knitefall asks, "Have you ever sinned since you believed? So, does that mean you are magically outside of fellowship with God?"

She would say no she has not sinned, and yes if she does sin she believes she will be outside the fellowship and will have to start all back over again.

I tried to convince her that hers was a religion of works, she disagreed. I tried to explain to her that our salvation is by faith alone, grace alone, in Christ Jesus alone. Nevertheless, she was not convinced.

I did a search and found a few old threads about this subject. Here is one.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=8466&forum=35&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=1

A good explanation I found on this subject.

{Abiding in sin or abiding in God.}

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

1. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a disregard for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 John 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in Him means to not sin.

a. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense John uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar indicates John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6 indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin. John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.

b. “The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity, unbroken sequence” (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these verbs with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go on sinning.

2. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John’s message is plain and consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style of habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A true Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.

a. Paul’s teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are forgiven and God’s grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man is dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can only be temporary for the Christian.

b. In some ways, the question is not “do you sin or not?” We each sin. The question is, “How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the pattern of sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your sin, and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?”

c. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for their sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with squarely, it will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their lifestyle - perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.

d. What is important is that we never sign a “peace treaty” with sin. We never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, “Everybody has their own sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands.” This completely goes against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our life.

3. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him: To live a lifestyle of habitual sin is to demonstrate that you have not seen Him (in a present sense of the ultimate “seeing Him mentioned in 1 John 3:2), and that you have not known Him. There are some people so great and so wonderful that seeing them or knowing them will change your life forever. Jesus is that kind of person

Greenlea my friend,

you have a heart heading in the proper direction. There are many things you could try and convince your sister of but coming from family, it's of great difficulty.

Direct people to these two sources: www.JSM.org and paulwhiteministries

These are among the greatest that have helped me and helped 1000s of others.

Always remember, use love and this sets people free. If they are attacked, it makes them think living under condemnation and law is right. And that is a sad way to live out this Great Salvation!

The scripture clearly says, CAN NOT sin. So ALL the debate about my understanding is what is wrong with Christians. They like to Judge the nessenger and NOT the message!
1 Jn. 3:9 is to "Born-Again" and NOT so with 1 John 1:8, which I did NOT SEE any post pointing that out, because a lot of you want to speak against the one who post, rather than God. If you have a problem with what I have posted then it is either that you can NOT read or you are NOT seeing what is written or you have one of those bibles that only contains what goes along with YOUR doctrine!
this discussion is NOT about people it's about the Truth or Hosea 4:6

The messenger is marked by their message, if the message is wrong or twisted or doesn't line up with scripture then the messenger is wrong, twisted, or doesn't line up with the Word. By their fruits you will know them and out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. When we speak or give a message the fruit of our hearts have been revealed and if they don't line up with the Word then they are poor fruit.

So what do you mean? You've come to stir up debate (sin) and you're not really looking for help/ answers?

Word your stuff better next time.

The scripture clearly says, CAN NOT sin. So ALL the debate about my understanding is what is wrong with Christians. They like to Judge the nessenger and NOT the message!
1 Jn. 3:9 is to "Born-Again" and NOT so with 1 John 1:8, which I did NOT SEE any post pointing that out, because a lot of you want to speak against the one who post, rather than God. If you have a problem with what I have posted then it is either that you can NOT read or you are NOT seeing what is written or you have one of those bibles that only contains what goes along with YOUR doctrine!
this discussion is NOT about people it's about the Truth or Hosea 4:6

Jumping off of what Greenlea says, which I adhere to as well, and following the same consistent interpretation, this would simply mean that the Christian cannot continue in a lifestyle of sin. He cannot continue to live in sin because the seed of God is in Him. Light and darkness cannot possibly have fellowship to each other; and what God has done, darkness cannot undo; thus, the darkness must leave!

Christians do fall into sin. It's grievous and it's ugly, and I don't know a Christian that wouldn't want to be perfect and sinless, but they do. At the same time, they will not stay there. A man could try and eat pig slop, and his stomach will become nauseous. It will disgust him, and he'll want to spit it out or vomit, but he may in fact even try a second taste. Or third. Or if he's absolutely stubborn, maybe even a fourth! However, eventually, he comes to his senses that he is a human being, and the slop does not agree with him, and so he quits eating it, leaves it to the pigs, and goes for something that will truly satisfy. In the same way, sin becomes too repulsive to the born-again man, as it did with David when his conscience was re-awakened to his sin, or Peter after his denial. They couldn't possibly stay there. They may persist for a while, and might be stubborn in their impenitence, but it becomes too burdensome for them to keep. Is this the ideal Christian? By no means. Does it happen? Yes. However, because He is born again, and sin is now detestable to him, it's impossible to stay because either it becomes too repulsive to him, or God will discipline him so as to make him turn.

Also for the reason is that those whom God loves, He chastens. If there is no disciple, there is no relationship with the Father, and God will not let a child go on in their sin, and so I do believe that eventually they certainly will repent. No father disciples someone else's child, but any true father disciplines their own; much more won't God? Actually got partway through a good chapter by Martyn Lloyd-Jones on this issue today :)

Hebrews 12 (NIV)
7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! 10Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

You might be legitimately born again, and you might try and stick with a sin, but you cannot help but feel you are paying too dearly to keep it; God feels far off, the Word becomes empty to you (except the warning passages), your sense of assurance is shaken, your conscience comes against you, you're doubly tired and fatigued in every way because of the guilt, you're less productive as a Christian, and you fear death and the idea of standing in front of God with this; all that, and you hate the sin anyways and actually do want it gone. It becomes way too much, and you decide that you absolutely must turn from your sin, and so the child falls to his or her knees, repents, and asks God for the strength to turn. The children of the devil know no such thing, because a father does not discipline another's child.