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Please help me find God

W
WhatdoIknow Aug 26, 2010

Thanks for taking time to at least look at this post. I have read the Bible, have gone to church, but I don't know God. I do belive that there is a God or supreme being, but I cant say that I belive in the God of the Bible. I found out about this website some time ago, have heard a couple of people speak, but I am still the same. I trully want to know God and not just know that he's out there somewhere. There are a lot of issues I find contradictory in the Bible. As of now I don't belive it is "God's word" as some of the people who wrote it claim it to be. That is one of my bigest "obstacles" if you will, becase then I don't know what is real and what is not real. For instance how can a God of love send some crazyman to kill a whole village; young women, children, old people and then in the new testament ask us to love everybody. Well, you get where Im coming from. I trully do want to know "the truth", if there is such a thing. I would be glad to read, hear, and see anything you may recommend I look into to. Thank's again

T
twayneb Aug 27, 2010

Hello WhatdoIknow. I very much appreciate your honesty and openness that you express in your post. I guess I must assume that your final statements are the greatest obstacle to your being able to believe God. I would like, if I could, to help a bit.

I am not sure I would call God a God of love, but rather I would say that God IS love. I don't think it is a trite distinction. So many of us have very different definitions of what love is. Our own definitions leave room for love to be self seeking or self centered, or to fit some conditions that we perceive as love. But God is the true definition of love. In other words, love is defined on His terms.

So we have a God who is righteous, holy, and good. He creates man to fellowship with Him and to love Him. Now we know that love is impossible outside of the choice that we have not to love, so God allows man freedom of choice. Man is deceived and sins, (Genesis. 3) thus making true fellowship with a holy and pure God impossible. But God loves man enough to provide a way to restore that relationship that God desired in the beginning. He loves man so much that He sends His only Son, Jesus, to be the sacrifice to atone for man's sins and open the way to restore right relationship. John 3:16, Romans 5:8.

God is also a God of judgment. He has freely offered restoration of relationship and His own righteousness to whomever will believe on Him, receive His atoning work of forgiveness and payment for their own sins, and accept Him as their Lord (commit their lives to Him in repentance and obedience). But many will refuse Him. He will be righteous to judge them in the end because they have shunned His offer of forgiveness and relationship.

As to the events of the Old Testament, the question is one that does not have a really simple answer as it really has to do with the dealings of God with man and the timing of the coming of Jesus and the grace of God being extended to all men.

God chose a people through which to show Himself to all man. These people were the descendants of Jacob (Israel). Believe me, Israel as a people have born the burden of being chosen for this purpose. He gave this people the law through Moses as His covenant under which He would relate to them. It was harsh, it was legalistic, and it was really an impossible covenant to keep. But it was only a shadow of God's true standard of relationship, which was absolute perfection. It pointed men away from self-righteousness by showing them they could not keep even this standard of behavior that was far less than the true holy standard of God. Men despaired of pleasing God by their own actions.

At the same time the prophets were speaking of the coming savior, the Messiah who would take away men's sins that were so evident to them. God showed His people many things and taught them many lessons that to us seem pretty harsh. The law even imposed penalty of death for seemingly trivial infractions.

Man lived under this covenant until the fullness of time was come and Christ came as a savior. I am not totally sure how God will deal with these people in the day of judgment, but I cannot help but believe that every one of them will, in one way or another, be given the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus. Scripture tells us the while His body was in the grave, Jesus preached to those who died before the flood of Noah's day. 1 Peter 3, 19-20, so I believe there must also be such an opportunity given those who were under the law as well.

Now God deals with us differently. We live in a day when His grace is poured out upon man and whosoever will call on the name of the Lord can be saved from His wrath and enter into relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Hope that helps, or at least gives you some things to think about. You said you truly want to know God, and I believe you do. There is only one way that can happen. Hebrews 11:6 says that by faith we must come to believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. There comes a place where we must accept and believe that He is who He says He is and that the only way we are going to know Him is through accepting the work of His Son, Jesus. I would even encourage you to ask God to reveal Himself to you. I am praying that right now.

S
sojourner7 Aug 27, 2010

The good news is GOD became the
Son of MAN called Jesus Christ,
and He came to lay down His life
as an offering and a sacrifice
upon the cross so you could know
and understand how great, how real,
how true, GOD'S love really is!!
Get to know JESUS CHRIST and listen
to HIS Words of truth and you'll
begin to understand who GOD is!!

A
Anastasis Aug 27, 2010

Welcome to the boards, WDIK :)

To come to an answer to your question, where you really have to start is the fact that all men, without exception, are sincerely evil. How is it that God would allow entire villages to be wiped out? It wasn't because He is cruel, but because He is just.

Let me give you a few verses to help you see. It's worth it to meditate on every tiny clause within this passage, because each one speaks volumes about man.

Romans 3:9-18
For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written:
"None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."
13 "Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive."
"The venom of asps is under their lips."
14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

From the very first two people who ever walked the earth, down to the most recently-born child in the world, this passage is talking about each and every one of them. You notice that the author of this passage is careful to let his recipients understand that these charges include absolutely everybody, without exception: Those destroyed in Sodom and Gamorrah, the Moabites who were destroyed, even their children, and even you.

Genesis 6:5 - The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Man is capable of a supreme level of wickedness. If you pay attention to this verse, it is essentially saying that the thoughts of all people on the earth, with very very few excepted, were only one wicked, vile thought after another.

Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

We often talk of "following your heart" so as to learn something, but the truth is that the heart of man is gravely wicked, and relishes in deceit. The heart lies to us about others, about ourselves, and about God. What we feel and believe, what comes from the heart, from our inmost being, lies about the truth. The ninth commandment is "you shall not bear false witness," though because of our sin nature, the heart bears a false witness all the time.

Isaiah 64:6 - We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Most of the time we make an appeal to the good things we've done so as to not say that we are a bad person, and that our conduct would pass the bar before God. However, God states that even our righteousness is like a polluted garment. I don't say this for crudeness sake, but this will probably guide your understanding to the force of this passage, the original meaning of that phrase is menstrual clothing. It's of no effect to really say something is dirty, but when you try and offer a righteousness before your God, this is the essence of what you are offering him; something repulsive and demeaning to Him.

All of these considered, it is not out of cruelty that God has allowed people to be wiped out, or has done it by His own hand; in fact, Scripturally speaking, it is a fair execution of justice, in the same way a murderer is brought to the scaffold. When you account for the multitude of sins that one man will commit over his life, then you consider the sins that an entire city will commit, or even a nation, can you see this accumulating to incur God's anger? Here is man living in complete and total defiance of God, even a city of people doing the same, and it is that God has been patient not to destroy them, but has been quite merciful.

If you still have doubts about it, consider the most wicked men in the world, and what they have been capable of. It's a very good living picture of what man likes to do with sin. This is the way man naturally likes to go. Even though it is in perfect rebellion against God, He loves it. But even then, consider the thoughts that have gone through your own mind, even in the past day. What are those thoughts like, when laid against the moral compass?

But then the next thing to consider is that God is a holy God. Perhaps you have come across this, but the Hebrew language has a particular way of emphasizing something, and that is by repeating it. The angels, when they sing in heaven, they sing, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty." Usually a Jew would only emphasize this trait twice, but this one is stated three times.

Isaiah 6:3 - "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts!"
Revelation 4:8 - "Holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come."

Holiness in part means righteousness and purity, but it also means that God is distinct. He is different from everything else. Whosoever tries to approach Him, must approach Him on His terms, much the same way that not anyone could approach a king, and thus not just anyone could approach God. Only that which is perfect and pure and without blemish could possibly approach God. How is it that an entire city or nation of people can expect to intrude on His presence with their great compilation of sin going before them and following after them?

I hope I haven't given you too much in this, though these are verses worth meditating on, and considering them not only in the light of the people and nations in the Bible, but yourself as well. This is the essential and basic condition of man.

I hope that this has profited you, and that God will use it to draw you to Himself. Please don't leave this thread to sink and go unanswered. Stick with us, and let us help you however we can.

God bless,
Jake

sermonindex Aug 27, 2010

brother..or sister,
i HAD to respond to you, because though i can't SEE you, nor do i know your name, i love you.

thats not a phony, sentimental, brittle pious declaration, that is the Jesus that lives in me. His Love IN me, That is the Truth. His Love IN you, thats the Truth.

i'm looking across my small room at two books:

1. The Jesus Creed by Scot McKnight

2. The Irresitible Revolution by Shane Claiborne

and just one more, which i have read many times, "Azusa Street", by Frank Bartleman.

May God give you the Gift of Faith, abuntantly.
neil

W
WMPerciful Aug 28, 2010

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Remember: All that truly are saved KNOW how thier name is written into the book of life otherwise if they cann't tell you how to have your name written in the book of life then they can not establish as per the word of God that they are saved. Dont follow the blind or those that follow them!

WMPerciful@GMail.com

W
WMPerciful Aug 28, 2010

If Jesus Christ and God are the same person then is can Mat 19:17 & Mar 10:18 be true?

Was Jesus "A" man or a door Jhn 10:7, 9?

If Jesus was the first of MANY where are the others that are "...conformed to the image of his (Gods) Son...", Rom 8:29?

Jesus said ...
Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Yet if this is true that only by the door (Jesus) can we be saved then WHOM is the PORTER by which the DOOR (Jesus) is opened?

Jhn 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the PORTER openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

If the PORTER doesn't open the door then you cant be saved and without being able to clearly answer how you are written into the book of life then you can not say truthfully you have been saved from the lake of fire!

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