(thread title edited) "hypocrites", actors and their antics.

Saints, brethern, my brothers and sisters,
i have thought and prayed whether to post this video segment, and i did recieve release from God.

Normally, i always like to look at the beautiful and pure things, Things in this most Holy Faith. i rarely focus on the 'wolves'...or apostates, i trust in the gift of discernment that God gave me, He's NEVER let me down, i PRAISE GOD for that, and if that seems like a 'boast'......beloved, i boast IN JESUS, such discernment is His.

forgive this preamble, but i feel bad, coz i'm not a 'watchman' type, pointing out this "error" in that guys ministry, or engage in belabored long theological arguments....you get the point.

i enjoy hopping the internet, helps in that "shrewd as snakes" aspect...read news papers from around the globe, check silver prices, watch translated venom spewing fvrom jihadist clerics...for some reason, i punched in "Todd Bentley" to the google bar...video, and i found something that just shocked me.

It was Todd's wife, the second one, the one he was having an affair with, then married, etc etc...Todd's wife tells of a 'dream' she had....ie, Oral Roberts chatting with Todd, which is a little off, coz isnt dear Oral passed?....then the dream goes on, and then its about elephants, and Oral putting his hand over her eyes, and how you have to have faith...and then soemthing terrible happens, she gets demon possessed right there....bout half way in.

Which made think of our dear brother Andrew Strom, i really adore that brother, never met him, but God allowed Andrew to get free of that group, and he did put out that warning video series....Pray for Andrew, point man in combat always gets attacked.

but tell me if you think i'm wrong....maybe she's just a kooky kind of girl, who likes to do kooky things, but that sure looked like some foul unclean spirit that grabs ahold of her....but still, i could be wrong.

didnt Jesus say, "this kind can only be removed by prayer"..?

(later edit-i removed the video link, so as not to give any credence to the workings of the devil)

please, lets us all not let this just be...macabre entertainment...at the end, either pray for Andrew, and/or pray for this dear lass...Todd Bentley....just pray, after you watch....its THAT bad.

in Jesus' love, neil

The message seemed to be okay, not sure about what the manifestation was all about, or even necessary.

As for talking to dead people like Oral Roberts, Brother Roberts is not dead, he's alive in Christ. I personally have no qualms with her if she seen Oral Roberts and had spoken to her, however, if she hadn't taken that fit, I'd have no trouble receiving her message.

Covering the natural eyes so that one can see by faith and walking therein is all good.

The Elephant. The coming revival will be a sudden impact, forceful, and huge, it will shake the very foundations of the earth.

It all sounds good. I hope all she had was shivers about her experience. I truly hope she wasn't influenced by a devil.

That is sad brother. But some brothers are trying to tell him the truth. Here 7 different brothers try. But, to no avail. What is most shocking, is the crowd's support of Todd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX4W2tVPjKg&feature=related

Talking with the dead was completely condemned by the Lord.

And I am not sticking up for Todd or his wife, just saying that the scriptures that you provided didn't say that she conjured up Oral Roberts through a familiar spirit. She said she had a dream.

Talking to the dead??? This should be a big sign of ungodliness.

Again, I am not for Todd Bentley.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Luke 9:30 And, behold, there TALKED with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

Luke 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Supposedly dead men, yet alive and Jesus talking to them and these supposedly dead men talking back.

Now if we say, well Elijah was taken up into heaven and didn't see death. We could go with that, but what did John say on the matter?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

So how do we reckon these facts?

I admire this brother. You have to recognize that many, no most are deceived. Maybe one or two will really HEAR what he is saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu9k60-GgVk&feature=related

i was wrong, i should NOT have even posted this.

not even put this video up, if its going to lead to contention and argument, i myself, just felt such a disturbance at what was, to me, clearly a case of demonic possession.

Snuf, i hear you, bro. Iceman, new brother here, beleive me i find the whole thing reprehensible.

i was a fool for putting this up, if a moderator reads this, just lock the thread, i was a fool.

Hi iceman,

I know what you're saying, but I know what Snuf is saying also. Jesus did speak with Moses and Elijah before His death, and Saul did speak with Samuel through the witch of Endor. Note: Saul did not 'see' Samuel; the witch did.

I'm not suggesting the Bible is wrong when it prohibits necromancy (sexual intercourse with dead bodies), divination, witchcraft and wizardry, and every kind of spiritualistic activity (under the Old Covenant), but:

could you please say some more about how to divide the experience of Jesus and Saul from that, and put the prohibitions into the New Covenant perspective?

What was the purpose of the Mount of Transfiguration? Was it for Jesus, or for Moses and Elijah, for the disciples, or for all of them? How, or, does this differ from Samuel's appearance to the witch?

Brother Neil,

I haven't watched the video. I don't do video because I find stuff stuck in my visual memory for years and years to come.

Hearing what you say about should not have posted this thread, this discussion may yet be quite biblical and edifying. But, I would like humbly to suggest you may be able to alter the thread's title somehow, so it elucidates the specific concern you had, more than the concern's effect on you. You could, also, consider deleting the video link. Of course, only as you feel guided by the Lord, brother.

you are right...i do believe i'm going to wipe the video link, wise suggestion that.

and please know, that i always love you in the Lord, your brother, neil

beloved brother, you asked me:

"What is your take on why ministers/people resort to these events?"

can i say this? i fear God, revere God, and i never want to go any where near the unpardonable sin, we know what that is, God forbid we should do that.

may i say two things?

when God took mercy on me, and i began to follow Jesus, He led me to a Pentecostal Church. it was NOT "Vineyard". God has kept me from the "Vineyard", that is not a judgement, it is a fact.

i was led to an AoG Church, where the pastor, a good Godly man became my mentor, my brother, and praise God, a close dear valued friend.

I believe with all my soul in the Sovereignity of God, in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that leads to the Deeper Life, and to giving of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

However, i have a few problems with what the AoG outlines as "initial evidence" of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that is the issue of what is known as "tongues".

there are two words that would indicate what is termed as "tongues"..."glossolalia"---unknown languages and "xenolalia"---known languages, which the hearer is not a native of. As i read in Acts, on the Day of Pentecost, what was heard was "xenolalia", and the masses heard these 120 prophesying in, were many languages from foreign lands, praising God.....which was a wonderful miracle...powerful.

in my days at that congregation, i would hear many instances of glossolalia, which i had no problem with, because my spirit agreed with the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was being praised. But a few times, i felt that many dear saints were, God forgive me for writing this, but i felt that they were like children who didnt want to "left out of the action".

i never breathed a word of this to anyone, not because of cowardice, but who am i to nay say? because we all work out our OWN Salvation with fear and trembling..amen?

i have touched on this topic with my mentor, meaning that tenet of the "what we believe" in the codiciles of the AoG denomination.....ie, 'what if initial evidence is a follower of Jesus being filled with impossible love?'...or being filled with an irresitable urge to serve, servanthood?

but, as i read and see it, there is little wiggle room is this issue, so my heart is that God will reveal what must be revealed.
Some Pentecostal denominations have taken the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to some pretty whacked out extremes, and i will not be along for that "ride"....for example, "holy drunkeness"...or "holy laughter".

i'm all for Joy IN the Lord, i feel that Joy this very second, but my heart leads me towards begging God to give me a Baptism of Tears, a weeping ministry.

In these days?...looking all around us, at the darkness and depravity, who could help but NOT be weeping between the porch and the altar?

as the Lord leads me, its away from denominations....not 'anti" denomination, but fellowship with any Body of Believers, who confess Jesus and Him Crucified, Raised from the dead, Resurrected!

as far as some of these who resort to such "acts", i was at one time, an actor,professional...paid money to act, i can spot an "act", or an "actor"...a mile away, and some of these are INDEED, actors.....its an act, its designed to entertain people, not to worship God.

thats why you always see the name of the man, or woman who constructs these "acts" highlighted, above the Name of Jesus....thats the tip off.

if one investigates revival, you'll always notice that the true worms of Christ, always recede into anonymity, they are happy to do so, they are quick to point the Way to Jesus, and recede. Evan Roberts, Duncan Campbell, William Seymour...just a few examples. They eschew publicity, spurn it. they dont covet money, they covet souls being brought to a saving Knowledge of Jesus Christ......AND they stick to the Word, and keep to the Standard, no extra-canonical, extra-Biblical foolishness.

these "actors" with their "acts", they resort to their antics, because they love money, they love public acclaim, but in the end, those ill-advised actors, are brought into the Light and exposed. May God have mercy on them, and may God lead the "helpless and harassed" into the true "sheepfold", and away from these sad spectacles.

The one man, even though he is now with the Lord, who has served as a human model for me, via his 30 some odd sermons here on SI, is Duncan Campbell. i urge my brothers and sisters to give keen investigation into his ministry and words.

much love in Jesus, neil