How Is This Explained?

I was reading the thread on knowing the will of God and something came to mind. To be honest with you, it comes to mind regularly for me. It is often said that the way we know God's will is to compare what we think we are hearing God say with the Word. We hear it said that God never contradicts his Word. How do we explain God telling Abraham to take Isaac up on a mountaintop and kill him? If a Christian started up some mountain with their kid today with stuff to build a fire to tie him to, the church would have a fit! How do we explain Moses mother putting him into a basket in a river? If a mother did that today, she would be arrested. How do we explain God telling Moses to go to Egypt to do what he had told him to do and then he meets him on the road to kill him? How do we explain Mary letting Martha do all the work? In churches today, that would be considered selfish. I have settled the answers to these things in my own heart, but I think many people do not understand what is meant by people saying God never contradicts his word. His word is full of dichotomy that reveals his Divine Nature. It reveals how God is concerned about the secrets of our heart. It's the heart God is after.This is probably going to blow some folks minds, but yesterday morning, I realized I hadn't even asked God who he wanted me to vote for. I realized that I was planning to go down to the polls and vote based on my own assumption of what Jesus would do. When I stopped to actually pray, God arrested me. Now, did God have me vote for John Kerry because he wants John Kerry to win, or did God want me to vote for John Kerry because he was testing my obedience? I stood in that little tent and cried as I pushed the button. I released what little control I thought I had concerning the election into the hands of God. You know we feel so powerful in there pushing that little button. We think we are affecting the outcome of something in the direction we want it to go. God's ways are not our ways. We cannot afford to be fleshly in our interpretation of God's commands. We must ascend beyond our own understanding. I came home later, after I had voted and confessed to my family what I had done. I thought my husband was going to divorce me! They were appalled that I would do such a thing. To be honest, I was appalled that God had issued that challenge to me. But, I do believe it was God. In fact, I couldn't have done anything else. I tried to just not vote. I told God, "well, how about I just don't vote?" No! It isn't about being inactive, it's about obedience. We cannot figure God out. We just must trust in his character. He knows so much more than we do about what his is doing in the hearts of people. Maybe my voting for Kerry was nothing more than God testing my heart. I pray I never think I have God all figured out. I pray he can tell me to do anything, and even though I don't understand it, I will obey.

it's about obedience. We cannot figure God out. We just must trust in his character. He knows so much more than we do about what his is doing in the hearts of people. Maybe my voting for Kerry was nothing more than God testing my heart. I pray I never think I have God all figured out. I pray he can tell me to do anything, and even though I don't understand it, I will obey.Ah, Praise God!This is THE issue. Thank you sister. If anything the Lord has been impressing on me is that it is in the seemingly 'small' things or at least that's the way my (our?) mind tends to process things. And I think you hit it square on the head, "Whatever HE tells you to do, do it." Mary said. That's been stuck in my head now for the last couple of weeks.Ah it's hard to share these things sometimes, thinking that you will give off the wrong impression but...Yesterday went to fetch some materials at the Home Depot. Came out and a guy about my age carrying a plastic anti-freeze bottle or maybe it was orange juice? approached me and asked if I had any change to spare. Being under the weather lately and a bit miserable I said "sorry brother, your timings bad". He put his head down and went on to another person in the lot. The guy didn't seem to be on drugs or any other thing, just hurting like so many of us.I got in my truck and said out loud, "You stinking liar!" God forgive me!" Started reaching for some change as I watched him approach someone else who handed him a dollar it looked like...Started doing the stupid rationalization thing, "Oh well somebody took care of him, besides I need to get back to work and besides he is already across the lot, blah, blah, blah"I drove on away from him back towards work, asking God for forgiveness and repenting of my dis-obedience."If any asks of you....do not turn away""Yes Lord" "I know, I'm sorry""It's not to late, you could turn left here and...""But I should get back to work""Do you love ME Michael?""Gulp..."I go a couple more streets, thinking about it, almost back to the house I am working on. Still dwelling on my stupidity in why I lied in the first place."Lord, I know I can't earn anything, You know my heart, I love to give...I'm sick Lord...(more ways than than one)...""Small things, the 'little' things...""It's too late now, I would never find him...""It's never too late Michael"I took a left turn back toward's what would be the far side of Home Depot a couple of streets over, with the intention of stopping at the gas station to get some water and break the ten bucks I had and then go search for the man. I pulled into the gas station and...There he was! Praise God, got some water, came out and he was heading up the street out by the traffic light, pulled up, rolled down my window and handed it all to him. He laughed, and smiled and was so appreciative. "Thank you brother, God bless you!" I said "No, God bless YOU brother", thinking if he only knew!Drove on, thanking the Lord that He gave me another chance to right my wrong, to undo my dis-obedience..."..unto the least of these...you have done unto Me.."And I just cried. "It's all unto You Jesus"

I can honestly say, that for the last few months, the one thing that God keeps impressing upon me is: Obedience.Jesus even said, "not my will, but thine"

Mike,I am so 'humble' of you :-) (my daughter and I say humble instead of proud :-P ) I love to hear this!!! It gives me encouragement to see God stretching someone and them allowing and going with it. May the Lord bless you in an awsome way!Obedience. To obey is better than sacrifice."The secret to true obedience is having access to His abiding fellowship. It is God's holy presence, consciously abiding with us, that keeps us from disobeying Him." A. Murray (Cool thought!)Obedience: learning to TRUST His time, His place, His will :-) Blessings everyone!!!In His love, Chanin1 Sam 15:22 "What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to his voice? Obedience is far better than sacrifice. Listening to him is much better than offering the fat of rams.

Mark, (sorry didn't see your reply at first)the Lord has also been speakng to me about obedience too. I actually dreamed about a magazine that had a big 'O' on it and it stood for Obedience. I am really seeing that He is speaking to me about obedience in my family life- this is the hardest for me. To give up my own dreams, wants, rights, control, etc.. in this area- down to the last detail. :-o I can't tell you how many times I have caught myself (the one who always shouts 'surrender') with this thought running through my mind "but that's not fair, how come "I" have to be the one..." (me:"surrender that thought, surrender that thought")I see I am still a beginner. "We do not want to be beginners. But let us be convinced of the fact that we wil never be anything else but beginners, all our life." T. MertonIn Him, Chanin

Yes, obedience is the best for, "Rebellion is as bad as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as bad as worshiping idols." (NLT - 1 Samuel 15:23)Concerning the will of God... on Monday I started reading through Genesis and "in the beginning" it was made very clear to me what the will of God was and is; "Then God said, 'Let us make people in our image, to be like ourselves... So God created people in His own image; God patterned them after Himself; male and female He created them... Then God looked over all He had made, and He saw that it was excellent in every way." (NLT - Genesis 1:26a, 27, 31a) This was the whole reason people were created, to reflect God's image and like Noah, "... consistently followed God's will and enjoyed a close relationship with Him." (NLT - Genesis 6:9b) That's it! And it's that simple!So... maybe that will relieve the stress off those of you who may be desperately trying to figure out what the will of God is for your life. Reflect His image through consistently following God's will and enjoying a close relationship with Him. "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you." (NKJV - Matthew 6:33)

I see I am still a beginner. "We do not want to be beginners. But let us be convinced of the fact that we wil never be anything else but beginners, all our life." T. MertonOh Chanin, this is good! I always used to be using my so called Christianity trying to attain some measure of recognition in life. I've had to give that up, as well. I'm beginning to be more content to be a nobody among nobodies. I love walking with you grasshoppa! Dian.

Not too long ago...I went to my car, that was parked in a public parking lot.As I opened the door to get in, a crumpled coke can fell to the ground. (No, my floor board is not trashed ;-) )At any rate, my first thought was to leave it on the ground and drive off. However, as clear as a bell, I felt strongly impressed to pick the can up. I had already begun to drive away, but went back and picked it up. Upon doing so, I felt a strong peace come upon me, and I almost began to cry! This really wasn't about littering...and this may sound silly. But I knew at that instant, and know now...that God was simply asking me to be obedient. Even with "little things".I'm learning to be more sensitive to the Holy Spirit.I almost didn't write this, because it might sound silly, but I knew at that moment it was God.And it really wasn't about littering, or allowing a can to drop to the ground un-noticed, but about my obedience to Him....to His voice.His still small voice.

I too find myself being impressed, it is about the small things. He wants us to have integrity even down to a penny's worth. But you add the penny's up and what happens? You have a dollar and so on. We are to press on toward the high calling He has given us. God wants our faithfulness in all we are and all we do. If HE can trust us with the smaller things of life then He will entrust us with the eternal things of life.Keep on being obedient. We must endure to the end to be saved.Blessings to you,Am_Lovin_HIM

hello fellow grasshoppas :-) ,Dian, I know what you mean. Luckily the Lord is good at reminding me that, though I am fearfully and wonderfully made, I am also just a speck in His big universe. Whenever I think I have "arrived", He shows me that I have not arrived anywhere except on my face :-o I can truly say I am grateful for this. I want so much to be humble for Him. I don't want to disgrace His name.Mark,I know exactly what you mean as well. I have times like that too. This verse always comes to mind when I am tempted to not follow through with full obedience "...in whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."So you glorified God in picking up that can. halleluiah! :-) It is indeed that little things that He tests us with.In Him, Chanin

Mark, I am reminded of something as I read your post about picking up trash in the parking lot. Joyce Meyers always says she learned to obey God at the grocery store. He made her put her buggies in the proper place and so forth. I don't know if you all read the thread I started on Something Strange Is Happening, but I was telling my son, Ben, who is 24 and in full-time ministry, how I am feeling. He said, "Mom, it isn't what we do, anyway, it's how we glorify God when we do it." You know, whether you eat or drink or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God. God is making all of us good citizens, as well as obedient children. I haven't even begun to confess the silly things God has made me do. I can remember when Ben first went away to college and he was really struggling to establish his own faith in God. He called me one night very distressed. Finally I just said, "Ben, you need to go someplace where you can get alone with God and just have you a good talk." A couple of hours later, he called me all out of breath. He was very excited. He said, "Mom, I went down to the lake here on campus and I was just pouring my heart out to God. I said, 'God, I'll do anything, just tell me what you want me to do. I'll jump in this lake if you want me to. And then, I realized, Mom, that God said, 'Then, jump!' So I jumped in that lake. I backed up about 30 feet and took a flying leap in that lake." I said, "Ben, it's January!" He said, "I don't care if it is, I bout froze my tail off getting back to the dorm, but I feel better now that God and I have settled some things." Isn't that crazy?! God is so awesome! He doesn't need us to be able to do lots of things, he just needs us to be willing. It makes me wanna jump.... throw my hands up...and shout... stomp my feet... and shout...

This is a great thread!All the replies. Loved that about your son Dian!Brought to mind this from T. A. Sparks:"Sometimes they will think that the best thing to do is this, but that altogether Other inside will not let them do it. Sometimes they will think that the wise thing is not to do this, and that altogether Other inside keeps saying, in effect, Get on with it! The outer man says, It is madness! I am only courting disaster! The inner Man says, You are to do it! These two cannot be reconciled. He is within and He is altogether other, and our education is to learn to follow Him, to go His way. "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself . . . and follow me."Ravenhill presents SparksWould like to think that it is all encompassing, that there are regular deep seated things that we always do because of who we are now. The things that are just automatic 'obedience's',courtesy's', and so forth.It also brings to mind just how well we are Practicing The Presence of God, listening for His still small voice and communing throughout the day...Praying without ceasing. Hope more will jump in here with their thoughts.

God's voice runs along the principles of his written word.I'll use your election example.His word says not to bid someone God speed who brings a contrary doctrine to you---no don't even let them into your house 3JN 9-11.Both Kerry and Bush made it abundently clear they were both christians.Kerry however was pro abortion and pro gay marriage rights ect... Big question----would God tell you to transgress his word?Answer ----no.You heard from a decieving spirit.The fore mentioned examples you gave all have practicle answers to them,but none of them violate God' character--His word--or His holiness. I believe in our endevor to be spiritual we forget to be human and practicle.A careful read though the book of proverbs will show you the why's in the works of Jesus---why he did this or that---or taught this or that. We need to rember that we all ahve several voices we can listen to---We are after all body soul and spirit.Test ALL things.Think about it.

Recently I was led to study Hebrews. The question of total obedience is heavily raised here.Art Katz' Gleanings form the garden - Part 1 & Part 2, and Be ye perfect, are excellent messages on the subject, also. The key theme being, "Choosing that which is perfect over that which seems good." Personally, I find that it isn't so much the "what" where I tend to fail, but the "when". Timing is key to obedience.

Hi Dohzman. I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong. :-D . Seriously, I don't know what else to do except press on. I tried to reason with myself and God. Maybe I'm just a flake. I'm trying not to be. I will meditate on these things today. Thanks. Dian.

There's a puritan saying that goes something like this, "the desire of the heart can be so strong it'll bribe the reason into believing it's the voice of God". I may have been or come off as being to harsh. I'm sorry, but as an evangelist going to the churches across america what I see is sometimes beyond belief.I'll give you an example.I had a christian sister in the Lord ask advice on the area of marrying a unbelieving man.She had all these signs and out ward manifestations that she sited including the peace of God and a personal prophesy.My statement to her was that where the word of God is clear you don't need a Word from God on the matter----you need grace to be obedient from the heart or to conform to his word. She didn't listen and now her life is in total disrepair and grief.God will never violate his clear principles and his word. Just as the man recently in the News who jumped into the zoo s lion cage to show how God would protect him---Noting Daniel in the lions den---The lion attacked him and the zoo officials statement was that had they not just feed the lions he would have been killed.Jesus said thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. There's a real good book out by a Brother Lawerence called " Praticing the Presence of God". Its a practical way to serve the Lord and commune with him daily.If you want to see Jesus--- you need to be Jesus to someone in need.That can come through a smile , helps , kindness , all the simple things in life, do these and you'll see mircles happening all around you band you'll experience the smile of God on your life and never doubt or guess what it is the Lord is telling you.God Bless as you press in to know Him better.Brother Daryl

Big question----would God tell you to transgress his word?This seems logical, but I do question, wasn't murder wrong in the old testament? why did God tell Abraham to kill His son Isaac? Couldn't abraham have said, well it doesn't go along with what you've said is right to do. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong here, just questioning. Once I believed that the Lord was tellng me to go to a particualr church and give them a certain message I had written down. It was about restoration. I didn't want to go, i didn't want to look like a fool- but I went and you know what- It wasn't the right church, it turns out it wasn't even a church 'building' He was talking about. But at that moment, I believed He was telling me to go. Maybe it was to see if I'd obey. Maybe not. But I did and, no, they had no idea what I was talking about. They thought I was a weirdo. They asked who I was "under". I felt so stupid. It didn't hurt anything (except my ego) but I wondered for a long time, if it was God, and if it was, why did He do that.Who knows, maybe I am a flake too, a fool. Well, I guess I'll be a fool for Christ, at least.Just for the record I don't believe that God would ever tell you to do anything contrary to His word, but voting for someone- that's not really mentioned in there, I don't think. :-) We are all in a process of learning to listen to Him. Let us pray for discernment and follow after Him.In Him, Chanin

It's true that we will be judged by the light---or understanding we have in the Lord and by the love we have one toward another.When You approach the OT characters you have to rember that they didn't have the bible or such a rich written history. Abraham had what was culturally accepted in his time as to who God was and what gods there were.The Lord chose to make himself known to Abraham in some very special ways, but we have a more sure word 2PETER 1:19-21 , they ministered with limited knowledge to us who have a fuller knowledge. In order to look at the way Abraham was willing to express his faith in obedience to God (note Heb 11:17-19) you can not---let me state it again---YOU MUST NOT---neglect the personal history Abraham already had with God and all that he'd already seen God do and speak to him under special revelations and manifestations.He had plenty of history already in accurately hearing and following God.I could use the fact that in that time human sacrifice was common---but won't,or that Abraham didn't have the bible -- not even the 10 commandments--- but he did have a law from God written on his heart. We all make mistakes and sometimes there pretty painful -- but the closer we conform to the written word the more we'll accurately hear God speak.Why did John call Jesus the Word of God? I tell you the truth---he saw in Jesus the doing of the written Word of God, the living out of the Word. Asoft answer that turned away wrath ,,,,ect....Being spiritual is simply doing the word of God and when nessary the God of the Word will move you with understanding to do special things as His servant.God Bless---Bro.Daryl

And what about David who went into the temple and ate the shew bread? Did I say that right?Anyway, in meditating on the core issue of this thread, I first had to evaluate what the core issue is. You all help me out here, please. I see the core issue as this: Does God lead us to do things that appear to contradict what would seem to be his way of doing things? If so, why? God's purpose in all our lives is to bring us to the place of absolute dependent faith in Him. Perhaps we can dispense with what God might do with whomever and just ask, Is it possible that God led Dian to vote against her own conscience? If so, why? Or is Dian spiritually confused? If Dian is confused, what is causing her confusion? You know, I don't mind being a guinea pig here for the sake of truth. I've given this much thought over the last 48 hours. I, of course, don't like to think I am deceived. I've studied hard to show myself approved. But, I'm not going to be so prideful to think it isn't possible. You may say, "Why is this such a big deal? Let's just drop it." But, I believe it is a huge deal. We cannot get to the place where we rest in believing that we hear God and he is leading us and caring for us if we don't settle these things. This is how I think. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. I humble myself before God daily. I confess that I am nothing without him. I fully understand that we are all just groping in the dark, and if he doesn't flip on the lights, we are doomed. Now, I wait on God. I never assume that I understand. I am certain that God's ways will not make sense to me. I am certain that I must walk by faith and not by sight. Perfect example: God led the children of Israel in the opposite direction of the Promise Land. It made no sense to human reasoning. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right? Sometimes my own children want to do things and they ask my permission. I have a check in my spirit, so I say "no". They want to know why. I say because I am the Mom and I can say no if I want to. That's how I see myself with God. Sometimes he makes me step a way that does not make sense to me just to make sure I'm listening and walking in submission. Perhaps he has had to use this tactic to break my stubborn will. You know, like a daddy whose son wants to smoke so he gives him a cigar to make him sick. Did you ever play Simon Says? It's a game about listening closely. God is teaching all of us to listen closely and to submit to him. I'm sure we never get it perfect, but God knows I want to abandon myself and fully trust him. I guess I'm one of those types who runs wide open. I'm either going to win, or I'm going to bust it big time! That's my personality. God has had to rule me with an iron fist. :-( I'm not proud of that, it's just the fact. Maybe I am a flake. God is still big enough to conquer this old hard head. Love ya'll. Dian.

You know, I don't mind being a guinea pig here for the sake of truth.Welcome to the lab! There's plenty of room in this cage, the foods really good and except for the poking and proding... :-P Love the way these threads can go sideways and backward. I too also pondered on the point raised by Daryl, a good point I thought, maybe a bit to quick out of the cage in my own zeal. Time to nibble on some carrot's and sleep on it for awhile.Not entirely sure if maybe we are confusing something here (well considering the source..)Something that came to mind:Dan 2:21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; Dan 2:22 he reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him. Psa 75:6 For not from the east or from the west and not from the wilderness comes lifting up, Psa 75:7 but it is God who executes judgment, putting down one and lifting up another. Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. As self appointed captain of the "Red Flag brigade" (it's a minor rebellion, a faction coming together out of the test lab) Would be first to mandate that being a good Berean is item one.If it is the Lord God who sets up leaders and in our day through the process of his creatures casting ballots primarily, am wondering if in this case the emphasis is straying to far into semantics. Couldn't the same thing be said about GWB in certain peoples minds? That situation over in modern Babylonia for instance. Who have recently seen their 'king' removed, one who slaughtered his own people in huge numbers lest anyone forget and it seems many have.It may not be so clear cut here, we may never resolve this to our own liking and can also see where this could be applied to whole other areas, many which are in various threads around here and if taken to extremes a lot of fallout and even more confusion.I did jump at the obedience factor perhaps a bit to quickly. And when it comes to the things that come to our minds or these checks in the spirit am practically paranoid, don't trust my own thoughts at all not to mention the sweet nothings of the adversary and the noise pollution of the world.So perhaps this was designed not only to test Dian's obedience but to spark this whole conversation. "Send in the guinea pig's please".Maybe it's just bad pizza.