Rahman
Nov 3, 2004
Andrew Strom Renounces the Prophetic Movement & the Recent Whitedove Conference in Kansas City ...http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~revival/leaving.html
Andrew Strom Renounces the Prophetic Movement & the Recent Whitedove Conference in Kansas City ...http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~revival/leaving.html
Thank you, Bro. Rahman for posting this. I had not received this in my email yet. I, for one, am praising God about this seperation. There are many who are honestly hungering after God who need to break away from the 'prophetic movement' as it is known today. I experienced this personally about 3 years ago and wondered how long the mixing could go on.I pray that many will have their eyes and ears opened at this point to see the truth. Many will need to re- evalute where the line is drawn. I pray for discernment for everyone. may the Lord use this for His glory!!!In Him, Chanin
"WHY I LEFT THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT"- by Andrew Strom (-Nov 3, 2004).--------------------------------------------------------------------------------A report on the Kansas City 'Whitedove' Conference, Oct 28-30, 2004. (-Main speakers: Bob Jones, Paul Keith Davis, Bobby Conner, John Paul Jackson - plus Jim Goll and others). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------It is with great sadness that I make the following report. I said last week that the 'Whitedove' conference in Kansas City this past weekend would be a pivotal one. It certainly was pivotal for me personally. I wish I could say that there was deep repentance - that the preaching was incredibly anointed and the crowd were on their faces crying before God. I wish I could say that, but I can't. In fact, it seemed to me that the opposite was true. The saddest thing of all is that many people probably came away from this conference saying how "wonderful" and "uplifting" it was (-just as they always do). But I have to tell you, I was grieved to the core by it. Many parts of it I would even describe as spiritually "sick". Some people believe that the fall of Paul Cain into serious sin is some kind of aberration - just one individual's problem. But I am convinced that the fall of Paul Cain (-who was recognised worldwide as the 'father' of this movement) is a symptom of a much wider disease. The whole movement is sick. As I have stated in previous articles, the 'Prophetic' as we know it is really a "fallen" movement - since the early 1990's. But I always held out hope that it would somehow turn around and get back on track again. In fact, I believed that this conference was a heaven-sent opportunity for that to happen. However, after what I saw this weekend, I no longer believe this is possible. The deception is now too deep. This movement is being "given over to believe a lie" and I want no part of it. I am cutting myself off, because I cannot afford the disease to spread into what we ourselves are doing. Things have now gotten so bad that we have to separate ourselves - and to do so publicly. As you know, I requested special prayer from you all last week that a true spirit of Repentance might prevail in this conference. The reason I made this request was because God had woken me up at 6 am the previous Friday and given me a strong word about the conference. (God only wakes me up like this quite rarely - perhaps five times a year). The word He gave me was that this must be a 'repentance' conference - that this was in essence the "last chance" for the Prophetic movement because it had become more and more corrupt - centered around money and 'ear-tickling' words, false prophecy and so-on. This was a gathering of KEY prophets at a moment in time when the 'father' of the movement had just fallen. It was God's ideal moment for a truly "solemn assembly". (And yes - I did write and pass this word on - in person - to the three main leaders of the conference). However, what actually eventuated at this event seemed to me to be more akin to a circus than a solemn assembly. The music, the concert-style lighting, the stage dancers, the groaning tables stacked high with books and CD's for sale, the 'ear-tickling', the hype, the $40.00 door fee (plus extra offerings taken each session) - and that's just for starters. What really bothered me about the weekend was the total lack of any truly 'prophetic' preaching. There was some good stuff on Self-pity and Bitterness right near the start, but after that it was mostly downhill. As always, there were plenty of anecdotes and tales of angelic visitations, etc. There were Scriptures quoted and a few helpful insights. But as far as a message that truly pierces and challenges and convicts - well, don't go looking for that in THIS prophetic movement! In fact, there were warnings AGAINST any message that might come across as even slightly "condemning", and there was even one of those cute talks on the need for "loving oneself", etc. Today's prophets seem to talk a lot ABOUT the 'sword of the Lord' but never actually bring it to bear. They bring no piercing word. And thus the entire movement is open to great deception. And instead of REPENTANCE, people are getting all kinds of counterfeit spiritual experiences. There seems to be almost no discernment at all. The ON-STAGE DANCING throughout this conference was a good example. Now, I myself am a rock musician, but from the beginning these dance items had a rather 'wild' aspect to them that truly made me uncomfortable in my spirit. There was even one that came across like a sensual 'Harem' dance. Much of it really felt "off" - and almost anyone who sees the videos will tell you so. Even the worship had a very "tribal" feel to it at times. And by Day Three they were doing dance items with just loud voodoo-style drums only - and leaping around in a frenzied circle making weird cries to the super-amplified beat. The feeling in the room was so oppressive and "pagan" during this, that I could hardly even bear to stay in there. Then came one of the most shocking statements of the whole conference - from one of the main prophets. He got up and said that people may feel uncomfortable with such obviously "pagan" type dancing, but that it was originally God's type of dancing and we were just now 'stealing back' what the pagans had stolen from God! I have to admit, this was the last straw for me. What could be more blatant? What kind of 'spirits' do they think are being transmitted to people who open themselves up to that music? There is no discernment in this movement at all. Now, I do not primarily blame the dancers. They were young and possibly immature. (-They weren't actually from 'Whitedove' itself). Clearly, most of the blame lies with the main prophets who invited them in and openly endorsed and promoted what was happening the whole time. They would get up and publicly acclaim these dance items, thus ensuring that the spirit of it would pervade the entire event. And indeed it did - more and more. Remember, most of the major "movers and shakers" of the Prophetic movement were at this conference, going along with this stuff. I repeat what I said earlier: This movement demonstrates absolutely NO DISCERNMENT. I urge everyone to GET OUT NOW, before even worse is brought in. I believe this movement is RIGHT NOW being given over to deception by God - and it is going to get much worse. Even the 'spiritual' moments in this conference often had strong touches of "Charis-mania" excess about them. And this was not the 'harmless, silly' kind of excess, either. It was at a level where I believe demonic spirits of deception were clearly at work. By the last session the audience was so hyped that they threw away all inhibition and leapt into the 'pagan' dancing themselves with wild abandon. And one of the main prophets even got up and announced that there were angels in the room going around "blowing on peoples' fingers" if only they would lift them up in the air. That particular part sounds silly, but actually the whole thing by this stage had become awful beyond words. Virtually every day I came home utterly grieved and depressed. I had come to this conference with great expectancy and hope, thinking that the return of Bob Jones may bring a renewal of all that was originally good about this movement. I literally came as a 'friend' and they turned me into an enemy in the space of three days. Below are the SPECIFIC THINGS that God told me He has against this movement as a whole:-The giving and receiving of "ear-tickling" words.-The giving and receiving of money in expectation of prophecy.-False words and false teaching. -The lack of a true Repentance message.-The spiritual 'blindness' that allows familiar spirits and spirits of divination to flourish. -The failure of this movement to judge itself, meaning that God must judge it. -The idolising of well-known prophets - placing them on a pedestal. -And so on.... WHAT NOW FOR US? Well, obviously, with great sadness we must now totally cut ourselves off from today's Prophetic Movement. Any related links and articles will be removed from our web-site immediately. As you know, for some time now I have spoken of the 'John-the- Baptist' type ministries that must arise to preach REPENTANCE in the Western nations. -Preachers of righteousness with a piercing word, like the Finneys, the Wesleys and the Whitefields of old. Such ministries are essential for true Revival to come. I now see that this new move must completely "separate itself" from the influence of the existing Prophetic movement. We need a completely 'NEW' Prophetic, and to keep it from being tainted by the sickness that has infected the old, there must be a complete cutting-off and a "leaving behind". I urge all of you to take this before the Lord for yourself. We live in very dangerous times, and I believe the old Prophetic literally stands under the judgement of God. For our ministry in Kansas City, what this means is that we have to go right back to the original calling and mandate over this city, and build on that. We cannot build on the movement that came after. The 21 days of prayer and fasting, the comet that came, and the comission to preach Repentance to the Lukewarm church - these were all foundational elements. So too were the four standards of "Holiness of heart, Unwavering faith, Day and Night prayer, and Extravagant Giving to the Poor". The original Prophetic move here seemed to be relatively pure for only a few years - and then quickly became a quagmire. So we have to stick to only the original foundations - and build on that. Our Sunday night meetings in Kansas City will certainly continue. There were prophecies last year that a 'new' prophetic - a "second phase" was about to begin. I do believe this. But what we need to make sure of is that it does not become ensnared in the garbage of this previous movement. It must be totally NEW. I would ask that you forward this announcement to as many Lists as you can, and to your Christian friends. We want it as widely known as possible that we have cut off all relations with the current Prophetic movement - and why we did it. To email me with any feedback, please write to: prophetic@revivalschool.com As you can tell, it has been a terribly sad and devastating weekend for myself and my family. We would truly appreciate your prayers at this time, my friends. God bless you all. Kindest regards in Christ, Andrew Strom.
I'm just wondering where the so-called "prophetic movement" in its pop-culture form was ever of God? Why is Strom only now cutting himself off? I've never once been impressed by the likes of Bob Jones, Paul Cain, Mike Bickle, etc. I almost got seduced into the movement when I was only beginning to discover the gifts- thank you Lord for delivering me from such! I personally believe it's been counterfeit from the get-go, though I believe fully in the prophetic... but that which has commonly been identified as such has not been. I think a good reading of the posts suchs folks as larsw make bring a wonderful understanding to the prophetic, and makes it very difficult to believe the garbage that has come out of Kansas City and Colorado Springs has ever been from God.
There were prophecies last year that a 'new' prophetic - a "second phase" was about to begin. I do believe this. But what we need to make sure of is that it does not become ensnared in the garbage of this previous movement. It must be totally NEW. I am sincerly happy that brother strom has come to a realization of this but still the wording above worries me where hes still trying to build on what was there before. I believe God is doing something apart from all of what is happening in the modern day prophetic charismatic movement. I think Strom is right on in alot of the things he is saying including the judgement of God. I am very interested to hear how God takes him now and what and who he preaches with etc.
I believe God is doing something apart from all of what is happening in the modern day prophetic charismatic movement. I think Strom is right on in alot of the things he is saying including the judgement of God. I am very interested to hear how God takes him now and what and who he preaches with etc.Me too. I wonder where this will all go. It takes me back again to Escape from Christendom- where the real revival was taking place in the desert- out away from any hype and away from Christian city. In Him, Chanin
Me too. I wonder where this will all go. It takes me back again to Escape from Christendom- where the real revival was taking place in the desert- out away from any hype and away from Christian city. Yea its pretty amazing brother Strom is doing this. He is going to get alot of flack from MANY people for saying and making this move to seperate completly from it, even when he goes back to New Zealand I wonder how many people he will seperate from there also.. there is alot of deeply entrenched prophetic, charismatic churches in those areas. All I can think of in these times is "keep looking to Jesus" and all the rest of this looks like trivia.
All I can think of in these times is "keep looking to Jesus" and all the rest of this looks like trivia.Yes, for sure!! I think Strom seemed very grounded because of His fear of the Lord and his message of repentance. Praise God for this.You're right. I keep thinking to myself, where do you draw the line? I just keep reminding myself to just keep holding onto the hem of His robe and follow Him around. These days, it seems that almost no matter what camp you're in, there is some false teaching. Even at the church we have been attending, though it is biblically grounded and conservative, there are things I question. Luckily, I am staying in His camp :-) .In Him, Chanin
Also, it will be interesting to see who else breaks away from this too. I guess it will show the inside of many hearts.
Glad to hear this as well. Appreciated the things Andrew Strom brought up on repentance and his familiarity with revivals of the past.But I agree with the King on this:I'm just wondering where the so-called "prophetic movement" in its pop-culture form was ever of God? Why is Strom only now cutting himself off? I've never once been impressed by the likes of Bob Jones, Paul Cain, Mike Bickle, etc. I almost got seduced into the movement when I was only beginning to discover the gifts- thank you Lord for delivering me from such! I personally believe it's been counterfeit from the get-go, though I believe fully in the prophetic... but that which has commonly been identified as such has not been. I think a good reading of the posts suchs folks as larsw make bring a wonderful understanding to the prophetic,Reading that article should come with a warning:Don't read this if you have recently eaten...
What bothered me so much about this article is that it is all opinion based (as far as I can tell). And of course Strom has just as much a right to his opinion as anyone, though I don't know how justified he is in sharing it publically. But he is accountable to the Lord for that. Obviously Andrew had certain expectations going into the conference. He felt he had clearly heard from God. It seems he was hoping for the whole "old-fashioned" ("classic") repentence paradigm, and when that didn't happen then he was bothered. And he was bothered by the dancing and it's supposedly pagan feel. Though, once again, he only offers his opinions. And what else can he do, I don't think there exists any Scriptural support for his argument against the movement. They didn't repent in the right way in his opinion. They didn't dance "right". They didn't do the money thing "right". His arguments seem purely subjective. Where he clearly seems to be unjustified is where he makes absolute claims like, "instead of REPENTANCE, people are getting all kinds of counterfeit spiritual experiences." And how exactly does he know that for sure? No, I'm [not] concluding that Strom is for sure unjustified in this situation overall. But if I'm just going by that message he sent out, it sure seems likely. But like Greg pointed out:"All I can think of in these times is 'keep looking to Jesus' and all the rest of this looks like trivia."Same theory on the other side of the issue.
2Ti 3:1 But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. 2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, 2Ti 3:4 traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; 2Ti 3:5 holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. 2Ti 3:6 For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, 2Ti 3:7 ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2Ti 3:8 And even as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also withstand the truth. Men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith. 2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further. For their folly shall be evident unto all men, as theirs also came to be. 2Pe 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second epistle that I write unto you; and in both of them I stir up your sincere mind by putting you in remembrance; 2Pe 3:2 that ye should remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and the commandments of the Lord and Saviour through your apostles: 2Pe 3:3 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Apply the most simplified and the most profound test of them all:Would the Lord have done the same thing as these prophets and evangelists do in the name of the Lord?If we applied this rule and plumb line in our ministries and meetings the Hinn’s and the Cain’s would be out of business before they even had acquired some sort of name. Or, perhaps they would have been corrected and made to be a blessing to the Church.Lars
I have felt for a while that there would be a prophetic movement emerging, one that will desire anonaminity, live uncompromising, rend heaven with their prayers, and lead multitudes to christ. They'll go by a name too....CHRISTIANS!! ;-)
What if this peculiar brand of humans has been around ever since Pentecost?I suspect that our hunt for something new, something other, is in vain. What we have been and are looking for has been in existence all the time.Some of us even belong to this strange group of sojourners.Some of us have our home within that realm, not making much noise but making vast difference in areas that count.Lars W.
Do you know this hymn? a little church in every houseO might my lot be cast with these,The least of Jesus’ witnesses!
What if this peculiar brand of humans has been around ever since Pentecost?I suspect that our hunt for something new, something other, is in vain.What we have been and are looking for has been in existence all the time.Exactly! Which is why I have ultimately rejected the prophetic movement because they keep claiming something is now being restored... which is simply not so. The prophetic has always existed. It's acceptance amongst men though, has not. Only of late did the populace begin to embrace that which has typically been shunned. Is perhaps God moving in our generation as He has not in the last 1000 yrs? Perhaps, and maybe he is raising up more prophets. But what He has not been doing is trying to get the ecclesiastical lords to embrace them so that they include them in their official polity. Rather, God only raises up prophets to establish Christ. Likewise with the apostolic, God is only concerned with establishing Christ. The wave of apostles and prophets that have come that I have seen thus far have only been interested in establishing themselves instead of Christ. That which is truly apostolic and prophetic is not concerned about establishing their own ministry, but only that of Christ. As Paul said, "We preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your bondservants"
I have felt for a while that there would be a prophetic movement emerging, one that will desire anonaminity, live uncompromising, rend heaven with their prayers, and lead multitudes to christ. They'll go by a name too....CHRISTIANS!!YES!!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE:"God only raises up prophets to establish Christ. Likewise with the apostolic, God is only concerned with establishing Christ.The wave of apostles and prophets that have come that I have seen thus far have only been interested in establishing themselves instead of Christ. That which is truly apostolic and prophetic is not concerned about establishing their own ministry, but only that of Christ. As Paul said, "We preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your bondservants" ...Amen King Jimmy ... it don't get any plainer than this.
Yea its pretty amazing brother Strom is doing this. He is going to get alot of flack from MANY people for saying and making this move to seperate completly from it, even when he goes back to New Zealand I wonder how many people he will seperate from there also.. there is alot of deeply entrenched prophetic, charismatic churches in those areas. All I can think of in these times is "keep looking to Jesus" and all the rest of this looks like trivia.I personally was going to go to this meeting to see what all the stir was about, but there was so many people there I could not get near the place. I am very ignorant of this movement, but what I do know is quite chilling. I hoped also they would REPENT! Thank God I did not get in! who knows how I would have reacted to such blatant madness and diabolical behavior.In my conversations with Andrew, he has always held out hope that the prophetic movement would get it together. That hope seems to have come to an absolute end. He did not just recently realize this, as we had talked at length of the sickness of the movement before this weekend. Sometimes God has to let a person see for themselves how messed up things really are.I spent a lot of time earlier in the year with Andrew and only sparingly of late. Honestly, I never felt comfortable with that movement at all. I refused to be numbered among them. For what ever reason, Andrew held out hope for them. Most most recent conversations with him made this announcement no surprise to me at all. Personally I felt that his identification with them was a serious hindrance to what God wanted him to do; but I just put it in God's hands. It seemed that it was hard for him to let go it seems. He is a very knowledgable and level headed man and you realize that as soon as he starts talking. I could listen to him talk about Finney and Whitfield and past revivals for hours.I have heard him preach several times this year and in every case the message has been one of repentance and genuine salvation. Strong messages that I have heard only the likes of on SI, never in person. He has not been invited back in most cases. That is an indictment on the churches. None of the messages outdoors or indoors were laced with weird flakey prophetic stuff. He is Pentecostal and that will carry certain things that make people nervous; but all in all, he preaches repentance and revival. I pray from here on out he preached bold repentance in our city. Here in Kansas City, we need it desperately! God Bless,-Robert
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