sermonindex
Nov 14, 2010
How can you not reject anyone that purports to take Jesus Christ's place on earth temporally and spiritually?
My mother (who is Catholic) says, "there aren't protestants anymore. We don't call them that. No one is protesting today".
In some ways she is right. The local "Christian" radio channel was all gaga when the Pope was coming to America, this past January (is that when it was). I was a bit shocked. Not too much, just a bit.
Used to be that they were considered a cult like mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses, but what I am observing is that they are more and more accepted as Christians. Yet, they do not adhere to the doctrine of Christ. (There is another thread going on about the importance of doctrine).
They believe in human mediators (their clergy) between God and man, that you bring God inside of you by eating a wafer, that you can pray to dead people and that Mary intercedes for us. And there is more and more, ad nauseaum.
The Catholic Church is no longer an adversary in these parts because no one is killing anyone over their faith. We have other fish to fry within our own organization, namely false doctrine, flighty birds, goats ducks and sheep.The local "Christian" radio channel was all gaga when the Pope was coming to America, this past January (is that when it was). I was a bit shocked. Not too much, just a bit.
This has always been a point of contention for me. Christians, or so-called Christians I should say, are completely ignorant not just of scripture but also of history!
Listen loud and clear, the Catholic Church is no friend of true Bible believing Christians. And the current ecumenical movement, especially in America is apostate to the core.
As for Christian radio stations, I don't know about other stations across America, but WMIT in Asheville, NC (founded by Billy Graham) has regulated one of the most sound Bible teachers in America... John MacArthur... to 4am in the morning. Why? Because he speaks out the truth and is not afraid to call a spade a spade... particularly the Catholic Church. So they put him on the air at a time when hardly anyone is listening so that he does not "offend anyone".
You know what offends me? "Christians" who are too spineless to speak the truth... and instead suppress the truth.
I am so thankful for everything you all have said. I have been wondering about my thoughts on the Catholic Doctrine and your comments have really been confirmation.
It used to be that we hated the doctrine. I just read Reese Howells book and he looked upon the doctrine as extremely false and even a danger to the work of God.
My daughter married a Catholic and became one. She is in all the way. All I do is love her and pray. But we were invited to her in-laws house for Easter dinner several years back and her father-in-law was sitting reading a book, Protestants attack on Catholics. He never spoke to me at dinner or the whole time I was there. His own daughter could never step foot in his house or had communication with them due to the fact she was divorced. Then recently she repented and my daughter was in tears with joy that she has come back to the Church! Not Jesus, but the Church. Her hubby & family protected her from us "protestants" for years.
Then the Pope before this one came in and kind of united the two and all of a sudden we were tolerant of each other and it has been going on this way for a long time. I just don't get it still though. I watched the inaugurations thinking I would have an open mind. Maybe I am missing something here. But when I watched I was nauseated due to the pomp and well, it was just the opposite, total opposite of who Jesus is entirely. I had to turn it off and ask the Lord if this is of Him then please change my heart.
Even as a very young child I asked my Mother, why was the Pope so important. He didn't die for our sins. What about Jesus? She had no answer.
I know there are many who love our Lord Jesus and are saved but I guess I wonder how they can stay in a doctrine like this one when they read the Bible so much.
Why are there eyes still closed?
Please, I dont mean to offend anyone at all. I am saying the Doctrine is wrong. The people are deeply loved. I suggest we all ask the Holy Spirit to take us to Jesus and reveal Truth. I have asked Him that even before I knew Him.
God help us all to know You and Truth Dear Lord. Help us. And Glorify Yourself. Amen
How can a person be a "believer" if they do not understand who God is? The Catholic god is not the God of the Bible.
I'm not trying to be mean, believe me.
I hear all the time "I know a lot of Catholics who are saved!" Well, I can not judge another man's heart, I understand that. But people can not be Christians and believe any ol' thing (doctrine) that they want to, especially concerning salvation.
Are we prepared to say that there are saved Mormons or saved JW's... or saved Mormons? If not, then why are we willing to give a pass to the largest false religion in the history of mankind: The Roman Catholic Church?
I have met one Catholic (who was raised Presbyterian, but married a Catholic) who I thought might be saved.
Catholicism is a cult, and is diametrically opposed to Christianity. It is wholly evil.
God bless,
Joel >.
2 Chronicles 7:14.
It's important to separate the people from the religious system. If you were a priest in a Catholic only community, and you came to know the Lord, would you just abandon your flock to whomever would come after you if you resigned, or would you stay, and do whatever was in your power to preach the truth while it was still in your power?How can a person be a "believer" if they do not understand who God is? The Catholic god is not the God of the Bible.I'm not trying to be mean, believe me.
I hear all the time "I know a lot of Catholics who are saved!" Well, I can not judge another man's heart, I understand that. But people can not be Christians and believe any ol' thing (doctrine) that they want to, especially concerning salvation.
Are we prepared to say that there are saved Mormons or saved JW's... or saved Mormons? If not, then why are we willing to give a pass to the largest false religion in the history of mankind: The Roman Catholic Church?
I don't know how we can possibly judge that a person who attends a Catholic church, is definitely not saved or vice versa. Only God sees the whole truth about their situation, hears their prayers, and knows their heart.
But I agree completely that the religious system is dangerous to souls who trust it, because it sets out to keep them in bondage to man, and to hide the truth that Jesus Christ died for ALL sin and ALL sinners, and there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven by whom we are saved.
Furthermore, it is not what they are now which will determine their eternal future, but what they are when they die. Same applies to us, as we sharpen our doctinal swords amongst ourselves, and polish our virtual armour.
hi,we all know all these problems that church has with doctrines.but do not let their problem become your problem... i have seen hundreds of catholics get truly saved...i have even seen a homosexual,female impersonating, catholic get really saved...i even saw myself get saved...amazing grace...loving Redeemer...mighty Spirit...thank you Lord...but if you get so upset with the church someone attends and protects you will never see the people get saved and set free that attend that church . we are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.leave the pope and coredemtion and transfiguration alone and talk to them about Jesus dying on the cross for them personally and allow the
Spirit to move ...jimp use their jerusalem bible and show them what it says about what it means to know Him.
Well, I hear ya brother on this and I think these particular catholics are really charismatic which is a whole lot different than what goes on upstairs in the main cathedral. In the basement the Spirit of God moves amongst open minded people that want God. But they get put down if they bring that to the real catholic church. While Pope John Paul welcomed the Spirit of God in the basement of his Churches, this current Pope wants to close those doors, and they are feeling the pinch of that already and they will have to make a decision, carry on with the motions of catholicism or burst out. I think they will do the latter.I hear all the time "I know a lot of Catholics who are saved!
the sermon Greg featured this week by Brother Len Ravenhill
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=17134
"Where is the Fire?"
much better balm, it makes one squirm with a sense of MY OWN UNPROFITABILITY!
which includes pinning up the previous sermon.
[by Alive-to-God on 2010/11/14 13:55:35
If you were a priest in a Catholic only community, and you came to know the Lord, would you just abandon your flock to whomever would come after you if you resigned, or would you stay, and do whatever was in your power to preach the truth while it was still in your power?]
The thing is the priest won't be able to do that because the church will not allow it. If you want to know how it is like to try to do that, you can look up Richard Bennett, a former Catholic priest who came to know God during that time and that he tried to do just that but eventually had to leave the church. His testimony is below.
I think someone suggested I said Catholics can not get saved, and that certainly is not what I said at all. However, should a Catholic get saved one of the evidences of salvation is that person will grow in the Lord and become more knowledgable in the Word... and eventually they will have to come out of the Catholic Church.
Also, anyone who holds to and believes in Catholic doctrine, especially as it pertains to salvation... is not saved. There is only one plan of salvation and it is not the Catholic one.
A Catholic priest who gets saved and starts preaching the truth of the Word of God will be driven out. Staying will not be an option.
And I've seen folks say, even on this site, that some will stay in a church that is not preaching the truth in order to execute a change within that church. This is a fallacy and it is disobedience to the Word of God. We are called to be separate and holy and to "come out". We are not called to be unequally yoked.
Personally, and this is open for debate, I do not even think that Bible believers should join hands with Catholics (or any other religion) in something like the pro-life movement. In doing so we send the wrong message, and that message is evil.
I say that with absolutely NO hatred in my heart toward anyone... I just believe that our FIRST allegiance is to the Lord, and to obedience to His Word.
Here is a statement and a question.
Statement:
I believe when a Catholic (I was raised Catholic) gets saved and filled with God's Word and the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit will lead that person out of the false church of Catholicism. The pagan rituals and bloodless crucifixion of Jesus Christ, weekely is grievous to the Holy Spirit. When I started reading the Word, it delivered me (the truth) from all my former beliefs.
Question:
Concerning other false churches within Protestantism full of man-made doctrines and traditions.
Why aren't people being led by the Holy Spirit out of other false churches and kindgoms of man? Is it the Holy Spirit's fault?
Here's a list of possible answers:
1) disobedience
2) rebellion
3) ignorance
4) apathy
5) laziness
6) not really saved in the first place
7) etc... etc... etc...
It's not really about "Protestism" anyway. It's about whether a church is preaching the truth gospel. A church can call itself whatever it wants to. God is not concerned with that. God is concerned with "Is the Truth of My Word being preached and obeyed?"
If it is a false church then the answer is "no"... and those who refuse to leave it and separate and have nothing to do with it have to answer to God for it.
Once a church goes off the rails it rarely ever gets back on track. I've never once in my life ever seen a train wreck where the train eventually righted itself and got back to the business of being a train.
Leave... get off the train before you become one of the victims!
Also, I think you can add the "fear of man".
Their friends and family may go to the same church and it has become more of a social club and if they left, they would lose their friends or family or at the least be ridiculed and misunderstood. Many traditions have been handed down to us from our ancestors and we just continue to believe what has been handed down.
Truth preached is not the only important thing, by the way.
Sadly, it has become the measuring stick, today for a congregation that is alive in God. Nothing could be further from the truth.
What people should look for is the life of the Spirit of God in the members of the church. Is divine fruit being produced. If not, then those hearing the preaching of the truth are only "hearers of the Word", and ultimately rebellious to the Spirit of God.
Are the members of the Body being obedient to the truth is the question. Are they allowing the Spirit of God to conform them to the image of Christ? Are they a yielded and surrendered people overflowing with the fruit of the Spirit.
Not is the truth being preached.
People shop around for "who is preaching the truth". But that is a deception, also. We have just exchanged one idol for another. Who is the best preacher of truth, the best teacher, etc, etc. Thinking that their church will also have the most obedient and surrendered saints, overflowing with the life of God.
Jesus said, do what the Pharisees say, but don't do what they do. He ratified what they were saying, but He did not ratify their living, their life.
If your criteria for gathering with people is the "preaching of the truth" and not genuine fruit that can only be produced by the Spirit of God, then you will just be in a Pharisaical congregation.
And you are right, it is not about Protestantism anyway, but since most on SI are probably from that camp, it applies to us to also know that Protestatism has it's false churches, too. Many of them,
The Babylonian religious system is not just Catholic, but all false churches. Anything built and led by the flesh, which is enmity with God.
True Biblical Christians believe that we are saved by our faith in Christ’s work on the cross.
"By grace you have been saved though faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any one should boast" Eph 2:8-10
The Catholic Church says that is not possible. Faith alone cannot save you. Below are two of the 33 of the Justification Canons from the Council of Trent’s sixth session.
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.
CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.
In other words, if you think you can be saved by faith in Christ alone; you are dammed to hell.
Totally contrary to the Scriptures.
I continue to pray for and share the truth of the Scriptures with Catholics I know.
I would hope that anyone who is truly saved and who is searching the scriptures daily to see if what they are being taught is true and would leave any organization (JW, Mormon, Catholic, Emergent Church or any other church that are teaching false doctrine).
Remember:
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
God be with you,
Brian
Their friends and family may go to the same church and it has become more of a social club and if they left, they would lose their friends or family or at the least be ridiculed and misunderstood. Many traditions have been handed down to us from our ancestors and we just continue to believe what has been handed down.
This is true. And Jesus said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26-33
What people should look for is the life of the Spirit of God in the members of the church. Is divine fruit being produced. If not, then those hearing the preaching of the truth are only "hearers of the Word", and ultimately rebellious to the Spirit of God.
This, of course, is also true and goes without saying.
I will say this though... it all begins with the preaching of the truth. If you do not have the preaching of the truth of the gospel then nothing else can take root. Our responsibility is to preach the clear truths of the Bible and let God do the rest. ONLY God can regenerate a man's heart. Salvation is of the Lord, period.
If a man has been truly regenerated he WILL obey. If he does not, then he is not saved. Does not mean the saved man is perfect because "sinless perfection" is a lie and a myth... but it does mean he will daily strive toward holiness under the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
This, of course, is also true and goes without saying.
I think that is the problem, though. We say that "it goes without saying". We take it for granted that the fruit and life of the Spirit will be there.
We major on doctrine and minor on fruit.
I am sure you probably don't mean for your statemnet to come across like that.
If people have true fruit from the Holy Spirit, then their doctrine of Christ is going to be in line with the Spirit of God and the Word. But, if they have the greatest preacher and the greatest sermons, the opposite is not necessarily true.
What I meant was of course following the proclamation of the Truth there must be the fruit of obedience. Otherwise you are correct... there is nothing.
But without the proclamation of the Truth there can BE no fruits of obedience.
Kinda like which came first? The chicken of the Ford?
This discussion is locked.