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3 days = Infinity?

sermonindex Nov 23, 2010

I'm trying to find out more about who God is and trying to dig deeper into Christianity.

How does Jesus's 3 days in hell equate for an eternity in hell for people? If Christ only had to stay in hell for 3 days, shouldn't the penalty for humans be for only 3 days in hell?

Christ had to become human for him to be the sacrifice. Because he couldn't take our place if he wasn't. But then why doesn't this apply to the time spent in hell.

Please explain. I am speaking out of confusion.

A
Areadymind Nov 23, 2010

This sermon might help you.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=16868

However, be a Berean.

S
sojourner7 Nov 23, 2010

GOD is just; HE offered HIS Beloved
Son to atone for our sins. It was
our shame and sin that hung on the
cross, and GOD poured out HIS wrath
against sin upon the SON whom HE
dearly loved. HE had to turn HIS
face away and forsake HIS SON!!
Imagine the breadth, the depth,
the length, the height of GOD'S
great love as HIS heart was broken
for us!!

T
twayneb Nov 23, 2010

codek: I hope this does not start a heated debate. I totally agree with the advice that you should be a Berean and study this thing out for yourself. I will give you my point of view and maybe it will help.

You will find two views of this issue. 1. Those who die without Christ will spend eternity suffering in hell. It will last forever and never end. 2. Those who die without Christ will be destroyed in hell (the lake of fire) and that is it. The predominant view seems to be burning forever. I guess I do not hold to the predominant view and for several reasons.

First I feel the Biblical support for destruction of the wicked is stronger than the support for eternal burning. Matt. 10:28, John 3:16, John 10:8, Romans 9:22, 2 Thes. 1:8-9, 2 Peter 3:7 among other verses speak of the destruction of the unrepentant pretty plainly in my opinion. There are verses that speak of "forever" and "everlasting" that are used to support eternal burning, but I think when you take the aggregate of all scripture on the topic, the conclusion you reach is that they are destroyed. Most would probably disagree with me, but I am not contentious and for good reason as I will explain.

Second, I feel it more consistent with the character and nature of God to destroy rather than to torment forever. This, I think, is probably the thought process that sparked your question.

Now, the reason I am not contentious about this point. God is a God of love and righteousness and truth. As such He is also a God of justice and judgment, for without justice in separating right from wrong and reward of right and punishment of wrong, there is no love, righteousness, or truth. In the end, even we who are bought with the blood of Jesus will look at the judgment that the unrepentant receive and say that God is just in meting out the punishment of hell. Rev. 16:7. I don't think God would be unjust to ordain that the punishment for shunning a free gift of salvation bought with the blood of His Son to be eternal burning. The creator of the universe who gave man a free choice, and who man shunned and sinned against pays so great a price in blood that we might be saved from wrath, freed from sin, and empowered to be the sons of God and we, speaking as a lost person, reject that sacrifice and refuse to accept what was provided by grace for us. What kind of punishment are we worthy of? That is why I am not contentious. I just don't believe eternal burning is what He has ordained, but rather destruction.

M
Madefree Nov 23, 2010

I had a similar question that I asked myself, and this is the answer I came to. (The same answer may or may not help you with your question due to the fact that mine was a different question)

The time spent in hell was not infinite. But CHRIST WAS infinite as He was God. But in being God He did not cease to be Man and in being Man He did not cease to be God. I think of it this way (and what I say means virtually nothing)

Christ = eternity
Spiritual death = eternity

M
MyVeryHeart Nov 23, 2010

That is why I am not contentious. I just don't believe eternal burning is what He has ordained, but rather destruction.

Twayneb,

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:46

The word for eternal and everlasting are from the same root. the greek word is Aiwn. It means eternal, without end. The punishment for the goats in this verse is forever. If they are destroyed how can they be punished forever? The word for punishment is kolasis which means "correction, punishment, penalty."

Contentious means fond of strife. Let us not be that. Please just consider this passage in light of your views.
Let eternity be stamped on our eyes.

God Bless

sermonindex Nov 23, 2010

See, this is the point. Why are there so many debates about Christianity? If this is the ULTIMATE truth, how come there are so many debates about issues like this.

Why doesn't God just come down and settle it all. I'm under incredible stress because I can't figure all of this out. But until we die, we will continually be guessing.

That is why it's so hard for me to trust God because I'm sitting here seeking after God this past year. And this was the thing that was always on my mind. I put health, job, relationships on the side just to figure this out and to this day I can't figure it out. It just seems like it's too hard to figure out.

Is God trying to confuse us? There are so many interpretations of the word and everyone has their thoughts on certain matters but why so much confusion.

I just feel that God is messing with us at times and that there is no point to all of this sometimes because there are no answers and God just sits there silent, not saying a word.

And yes people say, just read the word as an act of worship but it isn't clear most of the time. And topics like this arise out of reading the word.

The only thing that I'm clinging onto is the fact that the world is continually getting worse and I can see the events in Revelations coming about and I never thought I could've said that in my lifetime.

sermonindex Nov 23, 2010

to this day I can't figure it out. It just seems like it's too hard to figure out.
It IS too hard to figure out, and especially with our own natural or unrenewed mind.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

This is why we need the Holy Spirit to speak truth directly into our spirits, which somehow, by a miracle, God enables us to understand spiritually, and as we receive that truth in our hearts, and mediate upon it, and grapple with it in our minds, He brings us through to mental understanding of something more than we 'knew' before.

But we need to give up all thought of subjecting His wisdom and knowledge to the scrutiny of our fallen minds. That, is a lost cause!


EDIT:
To be practical, you have to decide whether you are going to believe God's word. When that is settled, and your mind is fixed on getting to know Him through His word, you will find yourself gaining understanding. I say so with conviction, because of this testimony:

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 [he is] a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.


With regard to your particular question, Paul Washer in his famous sermon The True Gospel, deals with the infinite nature and worthiness of Christ as our sacrifice. For the same reason, 3 days in 'hell' would be enough for all the people who will ever live, for whom He died. [It's here on SI, or, the video is on youtube.]

Regarding the concept of 'everlasting' or 'eternal', Young in his literal translation of the Bible, uses the phrase 'age-during', which thereby accommodates the major eras within which God has, or will, reveal Himself to mankind.

God has not revealed much about what will happen in the next age, but He reveals Christ to us, that He may be in us, that we may prove Him faithful to all of His present revelation, and thus honestly, consciously, deliberately, choose to please Him, that we may be with in in the next age, whatever that may hold for us.

Matthew 7:17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor [can] a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


Anther thing to consider, is the perspective of the person dying. To aid you in this, read Ezeziel 18. But remember this was written a long time ago. A necessary question is, whether anything has changed because of Christ's sacrifice. Without doubt, to those who believe, it has changed, because we receive the power to become sons of God. But what of those who don't believe? Is their condemnation GREATER, since Christ has come?

It is useful to remember when reading the New Testament, that the word 'reward' doesn't always mean something good is going to happen to the person receiving it. God will treat them the way they treated Him and others, unless they repented if that was appropriate.

I
InTheLight Nov 23, 2010

What makes you thinnk that He spent three days in hell? Did Jesus have to suffer punishment for His sins in hell?
What did Jesus mean when he cried from the cross, "It is finished"

In Christ,

Ron

G
ginnyrose Nov 23, 2010

I can't figure all of this out. But until we die, we will continually be guessing.

I think you are thinking too hard, trying to figure out too many things.

I suggest you focus on the LORD Jesus, allow his spirit to live within and be open to his teaching. There are many things one does not understand but with time illumination will come. And until that happens just know that what God decides will be better then anything you or anyone else could do or figure out. Knowledge and wisdom reside in the Godhead and it will be perfect.

In the meantime, study the Scripture, asking the LORD for illumination. If you do not understand something, do not fret - I am 63 and still don't know everything, but I do not allow it to bother me at all. Ever consider how boring life would be if you could figure out everything when you wanted to?

Take care and God bless...

ginnyrose

R
Renoncer Nov 24, 2010

Just to clarify:

Jesus didn't go to hell after the cross; He suffered hell on the cross, in that hour of darkness.

Be careful of translations that translate "hades" as "hell". Jesus went down to "hades", not "hell". Hades is the realm of the dead.

Brief explanations:
1) To the thief on the cross, He said TODAY you will be WITH ME in paradise.
2) Jesus preached to the spirits who were NOW in prison, in THAT SAME STATE (departed from the body, alive in the Spirit). But, the preaching happened IN THE DAYS of Noah.
3) It was on the cross that Jesus was made sin for us. It was on the cross that Jesus cried out, "Why have You forsaken Me?" However, when this was over, He said, "Into Your hands I commit My spirit". The agony was over.

I just wanted to offer this clarification in order to avoid serious misunderstandings. I do not intend to argue. Test everything. Keep whatever is good, abstain from every form of evil.

Your servant in Christ,
Renoncer

sermonindex Nov 24, 2010

I think you are thinking too hard, trying to figure out too many things. I suggest you focus on the LORD Jesus, allow his spirit to live within and be open to his teaching. There are many things one does not understand but with time illumination will come. And until that happens just know that what God decides will be better then anything you or anyone else could do or figure out. Knowledge and wisdom reside in the Godhead and it will be perfect.

Thanks ginnyrose. I am trying too hard. The reason that is because I don't feel I have a relationship with Christ right a lot of times. Just to clarify a bit, I'm doing all of this to try to have a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus. I'm not doing this to know everything. I just want a RELATIONSHIP with Him. I really don't want to try this hard.

I don't have a good foundation with Jesus. My foundation has been rocked so hard that now I question everything and I trust no one. I can honestly say I don't trust the christians in my life. The christians in my life think there is nothing wrong with what Rick Warren, and sometimes even what Joel Osteen preaches.(I'm not against these people, I pray for them, what they teach is wrong, not all of it but some of their doctrine is off.) A couple of them at church know the truth and do NOTHING about it and tell me I'm very brave and try to not associate with me because it hurts their social standing. (That's why you always judge a person's character by their actions and never their words)

Everyday I tell myself to just give up and quit and that there can't be a God because everything is so messed up. God will not allow you to be the only christian you know.


I honestly can understand how those prophets felt when everyone was against them. I've lost all my friends because I didn't keep my mouth shut. I'm not a socially dysfunctional person but because I always try to speak truth ,love, and seek justice, it really kicked me in the behind.

I want to barf everytime I go to church. Now I go and just learned to shut my mouth and go along cause I can't do anything about it anyway. People are sick of it and I get no backup from God. He doesn't say a word.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but basically

-I don't really know God.

-I'm trying to strengthen my relationship with God by doing all this(praying, reading bible(as an act of worship), fellowship, talking to God any chance I get) and nothing works.(all my efforts are to have a relationship with Him but He is very cold to me right now and pretty much all my life. That's why I was so angry with Him cause I gave up a lot and I trusted Him)

-God has to show up in my life or I'll be forever lost.

-I'm running on fumes right now and I feel God really just manipulated me and made a loser here and then He just ups and leaves.

-I can't do this much longer. It's killing me inside.

sermonindex Nov 24, 2010

can't do this much longer. It's killing me inside.
If you reckoned yourself dead already, might that not help?

Hebrews 4:11 [His rest]
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Isaiah 45:11
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Genesis:32
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day... 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. {Peniel: that is, The face of God} 31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.


Come, O thou Traveler unknown,
Whom still I hold, but cannot see!
My company before is gone,
And I am left alone with Thee;
With Thee all night I mean to stay,
And wrestle till the break of day.

I need not tell Thee who I am,
My misery and sin declare;
Thyself hast called me by my name,
Look on Thy hands, and read it there;
But who, I ask Thee, who art Thou?
Tell me Thy name, and tell me now.

Yield to me now, for I am weak,
But confident in self-despair;
Speak to my heart, in blessings speak,
Be conquered by my instant prayer;
Speak, or Thou never hence shalt move,
And tell me if Thy Name is Love.

’Tis Love! ’tis Love! Thou diedst for me!
I hear Thy whisper in my heart;
The morning breaks, the shadows flee,
Pure, universal love Thou art;
To me, to all, Thy bowels move;
Thy nature and Thy Name is Love.

My prayer hath power with God; the grace
Unspeakable I now receive;
Through faith I see Thee face to face,
I see Thee face to face, and live!
In vain I have not wept and strove;
Thy nature and Thy Name is Love.

I know Thee, Savior, who Thou art.
Jesus, the feeble sinner’s friend;
Nor wilt Thou with the night depart.
But stay and love me to the end,
Thy mercies never shall remove;
Thy nature and Thy Name is Love.

Contented now upon my thigh
I halt, till life’s short journey end;
All helplessness, all weakness I
On Thee alone for strength depend;
Nor have I power from Thee to move:
Thy nature, and Thy name is Love.

Lame as I am, I take the prey,
Hell, earth, and sin, with ease o’ercome;
I leap for joy, pursue my way,
And as a bounding hart fly home,
Through all eternity to prove
Thy nature and Thy Name is Love.

J
jimp Nov 24, 2010

hi,judgeing others has an awful price. you doubt because you have set your self up as a judge and not a man of faith.joel osteen or rick warren have no influence in your life unless you make it your business to get involved in theirs either by judgeing or following.let Jesus take care of everyone else and you just put your trust in Jesus alone and not worry about anyone else.you will stand before Him one day alone...joel will not be with you or rick or anyone at your church. what they do is their business and they will have to answer to God also naked and alone.Jesus came not to condemn the world but to save it and that is still the program...this includes rick and joel and codex and even me.jimp

sermonindex Nov 24, 2010

Yes, Jesus was only made sin on the cross. "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" (Luke 23:46) shows that.

Codek, Madefree's post is on the right track in answering your original question. There's something about Christ being God that made his suffering on the cross eternal, and yet he still suffered as a man. Perhaps this verse sheds some light on this topic:

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who THROUGH THE ETERNAL SPIRIT offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrews 9:14)

I'd also say there was something about the life of the One being offered. The cross was only the completion of what Jesus had done for 33 years- empty himself, deny himself!

"Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." Isaiah 53:12)

"But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Phillipians 2:7-8)

Christ's life, which he offered up through the Eternal Spirit, was worth as much or more to God, as the lives of all men suffering in hell forever would be. I believe this would be the significance of the blood of Christ, as "the life is in the blood" and why redemption can only come by Christ's blood. (Ephesians 1:7)

I hope sharing this is profitable to you in some way. I noticed your latest post while writing this, and I want to encourage you that Jesus shows up and works when all hope in ourselves is lost. Don't give up on Jesus though to come through for you. Every miracle in the gospel of John illustrates this. Looking at those may be profitable to you. Praying for you.

R
Renoncer Nov 24, 2010

Codek, if you are struggling because sin and hypocrisy abound around you, take heart in the fact that God's justice will be served. However, this is only good news for those who are found in the righteousness of Christ.

O our God, will you not execute judgment on them? For we are powerless against this great horde that is coming against us. We do not know what to do, but our eyes are on you (2 Chronicles 20:12).

As for having a relationship with God, you should know that God is much closer to you than you think. Please read through the Prophets (Isaiah through Malachi) and see how much He speaks about His response to evil, suffering, injustice, hypocrisy, false worship, idolatry, and every sinful thing that abounds. God is NOT SILENT on these issues. He has spoken FOR YOUR PERSONAL ENCOURAGEMENT (Romans 15:4).

He regards the prayer of the destitute and does not despise their prayer. Let this be recorded for a generation to come, so that a people yet to be created may praise the LORD (Psalms 102:17-18).

sermonindex Nov 24, 2010

...I want to encourage you that Jesus shows up and works when all hope in ourselves is lost.

I heard this many times but why does he wait for all hope to be lost.

Right now, I don't have that much left. Unless you want me literally sell the clothes off my back and live in the streets. I'm not homeless or anything of that sort but I did lose my job and had to move back in with the parents. My savings is gone. God doesn't want me work right now and that's why I don't have a job. So I'm waiting for Him and I'm surviving for now.

R
Renoncer Nov 24, 2010

There is no sweeter salvation than that which comes through the darkest night.

J
jimp Nov 24, 2010

hi brother,i was too harsh in saying you are judgemental for i have a judgemental spirit to those who are judgemental.there is no such thing as sinless perfection in this life,that is why His mercies are new every morning...selah on micah 6 verse 8 and try to live in that light.jim

4
4hearts Nov 24, 2010

What are you focused on? or who....Christ does not want your heart...he will GIVE YOU HIS.....can you die to self? You got to give it up................2 get on. Blessing's on yah.

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