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How bad are things? (am asking in all sincerity )

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MaryJane Dec 1, 2010

I wanted to ask about the current economic situation for a great many people in this country. There are stories of those who can not find work even after searching for a year or more? I find myself unsure of how to pray for people, some say things are bad but if people want to work they can? Then there are those who say things are far worse and people with families are suffering and hurting unable to find jobs even though they are looking day after day? I know some of these stories are set up to tug at the heart but I find it painful to hear some of the responses to peoples suffering. It amazes me the cruelty and callousness of those towards others? I know some use this time of year to manipulate the emotions so how does one discern where the true need is? I do not ever want to make light of another persons suffering but I want to use Godly wisdom in my choices and not be ruled by emotions either.

Any thoughts?
God Bless
mj


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Areadymind Dec 1, 2010

I think the best thing we can do MJ, is look for those who are being affected by all this stuff and bless them in Jesus name, in a real and practical way. Trying to wrap your mind around the enormity of it all can be somewhat disconcerting. Every bit of suffering you see is an oportunity for you to extend an eternal hand, from an eternal kingdom.

God Bless you Sister.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2010

HI Maryjane,

I think that you already know, based upon your post. Go with the leading of the Holy Spirit in your heart. Listen to the small still voice and not the voice of those who would manipulate for political gain. There are always anecdotal story's that can be used to rob people of their compassion, yet a good question is this for any Christian. When you were saved did you deserve it? If the same standard that we were to use on others were applied to us in our salvation, would we be saved now? Let us be Christlike in all that we do. He continualy did good to those who despitefully used and abused Him. He walked the walk of the sermon on the mount, now so must we........brother Frank

sermonindex Dec 1, 2010

In 2003 the Lord took me in a vision in which He spoke. He showed me MILLIONS of homeless out of the middle class. His word to me was; "THE END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM." I understood that it would evolve around a "MORTGAGE GREED CRISIS."

It is judgement, in such a mild way, compared to the wrath to soon come.

here:
http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/guest-author-the-end-of-the-american-dream/

There are at least 5 unemployed workers for every available job today. There are one million that will no longer be eligible for benefits...[to feed their families, and buy gas..] THIS WEEK.

I returned from N. Calif., Bay area, recently. There is fear gripping the cities, with many, many Christians I met that have lost their homes, with no hope in sight. JOBS ARE DISSAPPEARING LIKE RAIN DROPS.

It is very sad, and yes, there is a ME first mentality, IN THE CHURCH, neglecting those brethren who were caught in the "buy NOW!" mortgage trap.

I believe that we are seeing the beginning of the end now. The Lord has His eyes open to see how we treat the "least of the Brethren", whoever that may be....because..

"He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?

39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’


41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’


44 “Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”..WORDS OF Jesus..

THIS PERILOUS TIME WE ARE IN TODAY, MAY BE THE DIVIDING LINE FOR MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS, EVEN CONCERNING THEIR ETERNAL HOME, VORTEXING AROUND OUR ACTIONS OR LACK OF THEM TOWARD OUR SUFFERING BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

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MaryJane Dec 1, 2010

When you were saved did you deserve it? If the same standard that we were to use on others were applied to us in our salvation, would we be saved now? Let us be Christlike in all that we do. He continualy did good to those who despitefully used and abused Him. He walked the walk of the sermon on the mount, now so must we........brother Frank

Of course, this is a very good reminder for me. I should have considered this myself.

God Bless
mj

sermonindex Dec 1, 2010

i just started re-reading the Book of Job this morning.

mind you, all 66 Books/Epistles are Precious Gems, but there's Something utterly Unique about this Book, and i'm trying to lay my soul around What It is.

i dont know what religion it is, that says "all life is suffering"...is it the buddhists?

i know that coda is NOT the Word of This Book Job.

maybe the Spine of Job, is the Rock of Faith.

MJ, personally, i've been very blessed by God. i've never had a lust for things, possessions, fancy stuff.

satan has tempted me many times, so much so, i asked God about this a few months ago. i said, "Lord, it always seemed i was one meeting, one job away from being really really wealthy, but you gave me a taste and let me go no further".

and God spoke to me, and said, "I was protecting you from yourself, you'd be dead if you were wealthy. but I always made sure you had that homer of manna everyday, did I not?"

and i worshipped Him, because the LORD was right. i worshipped Him because He loves me so in His Wisdom and Mercy.

The Book of Job. There are tremendous Revelations in that Book for this time, i just want to wrap my soul around Them.

a homer of manna for a fool like me, from a God that will protect me, from myself.

i worship Him.

in Jesus' love, neil

J
Jeremy221 Dec 1, 2010

Hi mj,

Our first responsibility is to our family, then the Church family and finally the poor.

K
KingJimmy Dec 1, 2010

I believe things are pretty bad out there, and although I'm far from being an economist, my simple discernment tells me things are probably only going to get worse in the long term. How bad, I'm not really sure. On a 1 to 10 point scale, with 10 being the worst, I would say our present economy is about a 6.

Seeing how our nation's "prosperity" is built largely upon our ability to take on new debt, it simply doesn't take much forsight to realize that eventually that game won't end very well in the long term. Eventually we will hit a 10 on the scale, and truth be told, it wouldn't take much for us to be there within just a few days or weeks at best, even under "good" conditions. Beware of anybody who says otherwise. For at the end of the day, even in "one hour" Babylon the Great will be overthrown, with her merchants mourning over the fact nobody can buy their cargo anymore, with industry coming to a grinding hault over night.

If one understands the Scriptural principle that debt makes one a slave, and then understands our nation thrives entirely off debt, then it's only a matter of time before we have to answer to our masters. Of course, we need not let these things trouble us or cause us to fear, or do drastic things like store up a years supply of food to survive complete economic meltdowns. Our God will take care of us, and will provide all of our needs, even as He provides them now. If God can provide our needs now, in the present fallen systems of men, then He can provide our needs even under the next fallen system.

Practically speaking, I think the Church needs to prepare herself to step it up when it comes to personally showing mercy and hospitality to not only family, friends, and neighbors, but even complete and total strangers. Those of us who have the means should be looking to actually take people in. Times are going to get rough. And people are going to needs places of refuge to which they can turn for the grace they so greatly need. And who knows, in the midst of this, we may even entertain angels unaware.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2010

Dear MJ,

Please note in (Brother Tom's) reference to Mt. 25 that there is no mention of giving mammon as a substitute for personal interaction (with the posessions God has blessed us with) in caring for the needs of those lacking.

Most will take a handout of money, but Jesus expects of us to be His hands and feet, living out His relationship in us with those in need. There is a huge contradiction between cold hard cash and the warm tenderness that comes through us serving as His own poetry in action.

Yurz Truly,
gregg

sermonindex Dec 1, 2010

IN REGARD TO KJ'S PRAGMATISM, TAKE HEED.

Personally, i am in the process of completing a greenhouse here at home, setting up wind-gen as the means of future power usage, and building an underground living area (per His instructions). As well, in the process of doing this, i have been given air-ozone generators )prolly for use in the underground chamber(s).

What in the world is going on?

First the shaking, then the sifting, then the outpouring of the former and later rain together among the 'fires' following . The end is not far away from these things.

Judgement has begun in God's house, and the world will suffer accordingly thereafter.

Get your galoshes on or go jump in a lake.

phaney

sermonindex Dec 4, 2010

it's like rapture might happen in our or our kids lifetime bad.

What is God saying with all the hurt that we're going through

sermonindex Dec 4, 2010

note: this should be in the news section, but i thought it appropriate here. i, as we all have, been hungry in my life, but something about this article sent a chill thru me. i know why that chill went thru me, but i prefer to be silent:)

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December 3, 2010
Millions Bracing for Cutoff of Unemployment AidBy MICHAEL LUO, KIM SEVERSON, DAVID HERSZENHORN and ROBBIE BROWN
More than two million jobless Americans are entering the holiday season seized with varying levels of foreboding, worry or even panic over what lies ahead as they cope with the expected cutoff of their unemployment benefits.

Their economic fates are now connected on a taut string to skirmishing between Democrats and Republicans in Washington over whether to extend federal financing for unemployment benefits for the long-term jobless.

Tuesday marked the expiration of a pair of federal programs that had extended unemployment benefits anywhere from 34 to 73 weeks on top of the 26 weeks already provided by the states.

The federal extensions have been customary in past recessions and their aftermath, but they have become ensnared lately in political jousting over the soaring budget deficit.

Some recipients have already received their final checks. If the impasse remains unresolved, others will see their payments lapse in the coming days or weeks, depending on how long they have been receiving benefits.

By the end of December, more than two million are set to lose their extended benefits, according to estimates by the National Employment Law Project, and about a million more by the end of January.

While benefits have lapsed twice before in this downturn because of Congressional bickering — the last time, in June and July, payments were interrupted for 51 days— advocates for the unemployed are worried that if the issue is not resolved by the current lame-duck session of Congress, prospects in the next, with Republicans ascendant, are even slimmer.

That would mean a new reality facing legions of people across the country: a cutoff after six months of benefits for anyone out of work.

MICHAEL LUO


In Washington, Partisan Gridlock

WASHINGTON — With jobless benefits starting to run out for up two million of the long-term unemployed, Senate Democrats this week repeatedly tried to bring up a bill that would prolong aid for a year, only to hear Republicans object and block the legislation. Democrats, in turn, rejected Republican counterproposals.

In both the Senate and House, Democrats are pressing the case for jobless aid on two fronts, arguing that it is both the moral and humanitarian thing to do — especially during the holiday season — and that it is also an effective policy mechanism to help stimulate the economy.

“Unemployment insurance, the economists tell us, returns $2 for every dollar that is put out there,” the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, said in a floor speech on Thursday. “People need the money. They spend it immediately for necessities. It injects demand into the economy. It helps reduce the deficit.”

Republicans said they would be willing to extend benefits provided that Democrats agree to cut spending elsewhere to cover the cost, sparking indignation among Democrats who noted that the Republicans never insist on offsetting the revenue lost through tax cuts.

A deal to extend the aid is likely, but only as part of a wider agreement on the expiring Bush-era tax cuts, and it is unclear how long that will take.

One exchange on the Senate floor, between Senators Jack Reed, Democrat of Rhode Island, and Scott P. Brown, Republican of Massachusetts, was emblematic of the debate.

“In my state of Rhode Island, people are in a very serious situation,” Mr. Reed said. “They are struggling to stay in their homes, to educate their children, to deal with the challenges of everyday life. They have worked hard and long all their lives, and now they are finding it difficult to get a job.”

Mr. Reed noted that Congress has always extended jobless benefits in times of high unemployment.

“We have always done it on an emergency basis because it truly is an emergency,” he said. “We have always determined that it was necessary to get the money to the people who could use it, who needed it desperately, and we should do that again.”

Moments later, when Mr. Reed asked for the Senate’s unanimous agreement to consider his bill, Mr. Brown was waiting. “I object,” Mr. Brown said. “And I have a pay-for alternative on which I would like to speak.”

Mr. Brown proposed that money previously appropriated but not yet spent be redirected for the jobless aid. “The recent job numbers in Massachusetts reflect over 280,000 people unemployed in my state alone — over 8 percent of the Massachusetts work force. As the senator from Rhode Island mentioned — and I know Rhode Island well; I eat in Federal Hill regularly — the unemployment is much higher there.”

Mr. Brown noted that within just six and a half hours benefits would start to run out. “I don’t want this to happen,” he said. “If we fail to act today, 60,000 Bay Staters will see their unemployment checks evaporate at the end of the week.”

Mr. Brown then asked unanimous consent for the Senate to take up his proposal. Mr. Reed, however, was waiting. “I object,” he said.

DAVID HERSZENHORN

Lessons in Making Do With Less and Less

ORLANDO, Fla. — People used to living on little learn a lot of tricks to get by.

How long to ignore the notices before the power really gets shut off, for example. Or how many days past the freshness date stamped on a package of bologna is one day too many.

But the people walking into the Community Food and Outreach Center here have often run out of options. And now they may soon have to learn to be even poorer.

It is the responsibility of the center’s staff to try to help them deal with this new level of doing without.

“We already turn off the AC and pretty much eat those dollar noodles with the seasoning packet,” said Jacynth Allen, who at 47 finds herself for the first time among the long-term unemployed.

Workers here are preparing to increase by about 30 percent the amount of food they have available, just one example of preparations occurring across the country as social service providers brace for what they expect to be a surge of people in need.

With the memory of the onslaught that occurred when unemployment benefits lapsed over the summer, the center is planning one of its most aggressive food drives ever, along with a campaign to drum up donations and volunteers, said Andrae Bailey, the executive director.

The organization is also planning to invite governmental agencies and other nonprofits to set up on campus to offer assistance.

“These families don’t know how to navigate through an economic crisis,” he said. “Their support system is already depleted. They have nothing left to sell and no one left to ask. And now they are going to lose the $250 they use for housing and food.”

It is among the center’s aisles of free bread and deeply discounted packaged food that the simple daily challenge of being newly poor shows itself. Trying to put together a meal when even a dime makes a difference is bewildering for someone who used to stroll down the aisle at the grocery store with only a casual interest in coupons.

How do you plan a menu around a random collection that might include a tube of anchovy paste, a can of mandarin orange slices and a slightly crushed box of Ritz crackers?

The relative value of the little things a household takes for granted — plastic garbage bags, toothpaste — must be weighed against an extra box of cereal or a package of off-brand cookies that might soften the situation, if only for a few bites.

Troy O’Dell, 42, rejected a dented family-size can of tomato soup the food bank had marked at $1.29. He knew he could get it at a grocery outlet for 89 cents.

Mr. O’Dell resents having to even think about the price of a can of soup. He’s a dry waller who was never out of work until a couple of years ago. He figures he has one unemployment check left.

He says he will have to get even smarter about stretching his food bank supplies to feed him and his 14-year-old daughter.

The deer he shot a few days ago will help. With his last unemployment check, he plans to buy an $8 seasoning packet so he can make 40 pounds of venison jerky.

“That way, it’ll last longer,” he said.

KIM SEVERSON

Mounting Bills And Pessimism

FAIRBURN, Ga. — Frank Sanders can visualize how his tidy, green-shuttered mobile home will deteriorate if he does not regain unemployment benefits.

His living room furniture? It is scheduled to be repossessed. The kitchen? He is already stockpiling canned food donated by churches. The mobile home itself? By next month, he will have spent his last rent money, and then Mr. Sanders, a 64-year-old Vietnam veteran who lost his job as a welder last year, is bracing for the possibility of homelessness.

“We’re running low on time,” said Mr. Sanders, a bulky former Air Force parachutist who lives with his disabled wife, Ruth, in this small Atlanta suburb. Their monthly income of $948 in Social Security benefits does not cover her medical expenses, let alone their car, phone, rent, food or electrical costs, he said. “The bills just keep piling up.”

Add to that grim outlook a new concern: This week is the first since Mr. Sanders lost his job in May 2009 that they will not receive $323 in government unemployment benefits. Unless Congress approves a measure extending federal assistance for the long-term unemployed, they will be among more than two million jobless Americans who will lose their benefits by the end of this month. So there is a special urgency to Mr. Sanders’s daily trips around town in his Chevy Trailblazer, applying for jobs at fast-food restaurants, construction sites and retail stores. An artist by hobby, he also paints landscapes on common items — milk jugs, vinyl records, buzz saws — and sells them for $15.

Such hardship is humbling. Raised in a working-class family and employed all of his life until last year, Mr. Sanders went to a food bank for a donated Thanksgiving turkey. “I’m supposed to be the provider, I’m supposed to be taking care of the situation,” he said. “There I am begging for food.”

He lost his job at a factory that welds equipment for bulldozers in Lafayette, Ind., amid a companywide downsizing. His wife’s daughter lives in Georgia, so they moved here this year, hoping he could find work as a carpenter or construction worker, but so far he has not received any offers. For “good luck,” he recently placed a large golden Buddha statue in his living room. But he admits that he is pessimistic. The state unemployment rate is 10 percent. Every evening, he watches C-Span, hoping for news that Congress has passed the extensions, and ends up yelling at the television.

“I’m wondering where the next dollar is going to come from, or the next meal,” he said. “When I’m not looking for work, my day is filled with a lot of pacing back and forth.”

ROBBIE BROWN


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JoanM Dec 4, 2010

How bad are things? I think Isaiah paints an accurate picture.

If I limit myself to how bad are things in the United States, I see people turning everywhere but to God and His Word. Things are very bad indeed.

For example: I see the fruit of a politically distorted view of families ripening. I live in a 920 square foot, two bedroom, one bath, single family dwelling which was home to a husband, wife, and three children. How ever did they manage? I do not know a single member in my fellowship that does not have space, where they live, for at least one family member. Most have space for five or more, unless you think every child should have their own bedroom.

Like Nathan4Jesus, a chill went through me reading his collected posts. But not the same sort of chill. Mr. O’Dell resents having to even think about the price of a can of soup. Frank Sanders does not have the money he spent on rented furniture (or was it installment purchased while unemployed). Being on unemployment since May 2009 (1 year and 7 months). Though he moved his disabled wife to the same state that her daughter lives in, they did not join households. Daily his hope is in news from a cable TV station that the government will extend unemployment and he has “covered the bases” with a Buddha.

MaryJane: Here is a resource for Godly wisdom: Money Life, a Christian radio program, had a good series of programs on helping the unemployed [See daily program for 11/13/10 (12 practical recommendations) and 11/11/10]. You can find the programs under “media” http://www.crown.org/media/relatedcontent/111310.aspx Although I do not know anyone laid off [!], my fellowship is considering offering free diapers for a year to any recently laid off family, and all the outreach things that could go with that.

J
Joyful_Heart Dec 4, 2010

I think as the days grow worse that the more important things will be taking place in our lives. Instead of debating doctrine etc. we will be helping others more and get back to the basics of Christianity which is LOVE. The Lord knew we would all have different beliefs and be at different places with our walk with Him and that is why He said to love the brethren. He has given so many ways to do that, to forbear, forgive, give, have mercy, don't judge etc.

There are Churches that are reaching out like Joan M's Church with diapers. I was privileged to go and stand on concrete for 3 hours with no break in a fast assembly line packaging food for kids. I am not young but I came away rejuvenated and not sore in one place. Glory to God

The little City I live in is so awesome. They feed the children who are in need breakfast, lunch & dinner at school. Then on Friday we bag up a huge sack of all kinds of food, enough for them and others in the family so they wont go hungry on the weekends.

Someone donated the land and the huge warehouse building just to feed people in the city. They are giving out 4,000 of these each weekend. Glory to God.

Someone said, if the Churches would step up more we would have a lot less hunger. etc.

Also, I was so blessed by Gospel For Asia. They have a catalog with items you can purchase for missionaries & the people of the land and a lot of folks are going to do that instead of buying a bunch of Christmas gifts this year.

Joan M said it the best when she said things are getting bad but people aren't coming to the Lord in the US but they are around the world. I guess things are not bad enough here yet.

As we walk with the Lord, He will show us what and when to give. A roast to a neighbor, diapers, missionaries, service, a friendly face, a hug, to SI etc. There are so many ways to give and we dont have to be wealthy to give. I went to a Church were the poorest lady in the Church actually gave the most that year. She was joyful as she said all her needs have been met.

I pray that God will give the increase to us all. Not so we can make ourselves more comfortable with more stuff but so we can give. All glory to God. It's not about us it's about Jesus and others. This is the Christians opportunity to step up, our opportunity to share the love of God. It is an exciting time to be a Christian and will get more exciting. The darker the dark the lighter the light. All glory to God.

G
ginnyrose Dec 4, 2010

The other day I was talking to a lady who was telling me how her husband is drawing an unemployment check. The one from the state expired and now he is getting one from the Feds. In the meantime, he is enrolled in nursing school thanks to some financial aid that he qualifies for.

She also told me that the checks he got from the state were all put into savings and that now they are beginning to spend that which comes from the Feds.

What is their financial situation? They own a farm, debt free; had a job elsewhere but was laid off of it; their son operates their 'livestock' operation; and she is an RN who works part-time who was also laid off from her hospital job.

Are these people anywheres near poor? NO!

Well, envy will not get you anywhere, but God will sustain you. Recently the LORD impressed on my mind that I should not focus on money, but on Him. As I do this, I am left asking the question: do I need this today? Remember the LORD's prayer, "give us this day our daily bread"?

ginnyrose

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MaryJane Dec 5, 2010

Greetings Neil

As I read over what you shared I began to have a very unsettled feeling come over me. I would almost describe it as fearful. I am not sure why these stories had this effect on me but I do know that it is sin for me to be afraid.I do not really know what lays ahead but I want to trust in the Lord and learn to daily walk by faith. In these times it is difficult for someone like me but I really do want to learn to hear His voice and to be obedient in all things. Learning to discern things that are happening around me so that I might be about His Kingdom.

Thank you all for responding
maryjane

J
Jeremy221 Dec 7, 2010

 America's Last Call (Part 5 of 6) by David Wilkerson

Topic: America

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=17775&commentView=itemComments

L
Lordoitagain Dec 7, 2010

I was listening to a message a while back by Andrew Strom regarding the coming economic crash. One thing that he pointed out is the fact that if we make ourselves busy with taking care of the poor, then as things get worse, God will take care of us. He is highly interested in taking care of the poor.

Often it is difficult when dealing with the poor in this country, because it is often hard to discern where there is real need, or simple laziness, addictions, mismanagement, etc ...

For MANY years there have been REAL verifiable needs amongst our brethren in other countries. I believe that as things crunch down for us here in the USA, those who have been a source of strength for the body of Christ in other lands will see abundance to supply every need.

These are some good places to really make a difference:

http://www.persecution.com/

http://www.gfa.org/

A couple of years back when I started more heavily supporting the desperately needy, I saw much greater provision in my life personally.

Of course, those who are worshipping idols of materialism are not even in the kingdom of God. It may take a crash in the economy for some to even see that they are blinded by the gods of this world.

sermonindex Dec 8, 2010

What do you think God wants us to do about this?

J
Jimm Dec 8, 2010

Hi codec and MJ,

I just want to reassure my fellow christians that God will take care of you in Christ Jesus. I lived through the worst economic crisis in history and I know that the one in America will be nowhere near as bad. We reached 235 million percent inflation! This came in a nice package of civil unrest and mass intimidation and brutality as those in power did not want to loose it and our constitution had no provisions against this. 10 years later, we are still here and strong in Christ for it. It was a passing wind. Our inflation is down to 4% now and look, I'm on the internet just like you!

What to do is to continually praise God through it. Look for good in every situation and every person. Refuse to blame "the system" or those in power but see this as the sovereign hand of God fulfilling the begining of sorrows in Matthew 24.

Again, things in America won't get as bad as over here. The global community will bail you out. You have good leadership. Actual gold reserves, farming, oil etc. You'll be fine. Quality of life may take a little dip, but not only is it temporary. You soon discover that the things that make up your current life, many of them you can do without but what is important is having Christ. He is our peace of mind, our joy be our hope.

James

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