The First Judgement Comes.

by Oracio on 2010/12/10 9:53:13

Erendel, I understand what you are saying and I agree that we need to be careful on how we speak of the Holy Spirit's operations in us.
However, after considering Ephesians 5:18 some more, it seems that a sound interpretation of it would force us to take Paul as saying in essence, "instead of being drunk and filled with wine, be filled with the Spirit of God.

There are some Christians that will argue that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is like getting drunk, and they take scripture out of context. So in a spirit of gentleness I respond:

Ephesians 5:18 (New King James Version)
And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,

I believe what the Apostle is saying is:

Instead of getting drunk with wine and indulging the senses, rather to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Here's why...

Look at the reasons why people indulge the flesh in the first place, is it not to fill something that is lacking in the soul? Is it not to make one feel better, to give one a sense of well being? Is it not to give one a sense of joy and happiness and completeness? Is this not the reason why people drink to get drunk in the first place, to numb, to make one feel better?

I believe Paul is saying that God can and will give us all of these things. Be filled the Holy Spirit and no longer get drunk with wine.

The Spirit of God (Holy Ghost) is as natural to the human body as the hair on your head. And this is what we were created for...Are not our bodies called the "Temple of the living God"?

I believe Adam walked with God, where his body was filled with God's Spirit - there was a communion there. God's Spirit filled a part of Adam that completed him (Shekhinah), that made him a living temple of God.

Adam lost this when he, through transgression, fell. The Shekhinah Glory of God lifted from Adam, the same way that the Shekhinah Glory of God lifted from the Jewish Temple (the physical one before it was destroyed in 70 AD).

Since the fall of Adam, our race has sought to fill "that missing part" that incompleteness, by indulging in the senses of the flesh. And without the Light of God (the Holy Spirit, who was, and now is the majestic presence or manifestation of God in man) man would grow exceeding dark and sinful, for without light, there can only be darkness.

...but we are no longer in darkness (that is to say without the Holy Ghost), that we should indulge the senses with all manner of uncleanness.

Ephesians 5:8 " For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light"

This indwelling Shekhinah presence of God in His temple is something that was always meant for man, we were created for this purpose - we are (that is our bodies) "living temples" of the Holy Spirit of God.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Why?

because: Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

It is therefore wise as Christians and prudent too, to avoid worldly connotations (descriptives) when describing the indwelling Shekhinah presence, the glory of God in us, His temple.

The Apostle Paul was not likening the infilling of the Holy Ghost with drunkenness, but rather a turning away from the works of darkness, which is in the indulging the senses with sinful practices and uncleanness before God, and to be filled with the Holy Ghost who completes us, fills that void in our souls.

Not sinful drunkenness, but Holy Communion and completion.

I remember one night when I was a young man, and I shall never forget it, when after fervent prayer before the Lord... All at once, like a mighty bolt of lightning it came...the most powerful witness of the Holy Spirit that I have ever had to that point. The power of God fell upon me in such a way that I was barely able to stand upon my feet.

The Shekinah Glory of God fell upon me that night, and nearly knocked me off my feet. But the Lord allowed me to stand up under it, and I was barely able to contain it. Had the witness been any more powerful than it was, I would have been knocked out by the power.

The presence of God's Holy Spirit is awesome, I describe His witness as follows: A sweet fragrance like that of sweet spice or flowers, accompanied by joy unspeakable and full of glory, accompanied by great peace that floods my soul like a river, a great calm, a true sense of acceptance and well-being and contentment. I could feel His Love on me like a garment, and as a presence that I could feel and sense, like a bright light shining on me.

The experience on my senses that the Holy Spirit brings are incredible and indescribable.

...God encountered me that night in prayer, and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced!

Very good.

you said in your post "Why would anyone EVER want to refer to the beautiful anointing of the Holy Spirit of God as "Getting Drunk"?

here is your answer- Look in Acts chapter 2 verse 13.

Spiritual things have to be compared to natural things. To natural man they appeared to be drunk. So, some ministers say drunk in the spirit instead of being filled.

I really don't like the word believer when talking about saints of God or christians, because if you ask anyone if they believe they are a Christian they will more than likely say yes. Everyone is a believer.

It is a tragic thing to be judged. Think about this, after judment comes to the house of the Lord first and it will, I believe that the "remnant of Christians" will evangelize over half of the worlds population before the rapture of the church. This will be done in a small amount of time. maybe in a year or two.

Proverbs says "they that win souls are wise." Are you out winning souls for Christ?

Spiritual things have to be compared to natural things. To natural man they appeared to be drunk. So, some ministers say drunk in the spirit instead of being filled.

~~~

I know what the book of Acts says, but the Apostles never went around saying they were drunk in the Spirit when the Holy Ghost was upon them...ever! Drunkenness conjures up thoughts of immoral practice that God has said is a sin, so why would the Christian refer to the anointing as such? ...just to appease those who are carnal and in the flesh?

There is a separation between the carnal world and life in Jesus Christ; I cannot do the things I used to do, and that includes getting drunk among other things. So why pander to the flesh at all and call the Holy Spirit drunkenness?

~~~

Think about this, after judment comes to the house of the Lord first and it will, I believe that the "remnant of Christians" will evangelize over half of the worlds population before the rapture of the church. This will be done in a small amount of time. maybe in a year or two.

This is correct, there is a remnant. Only a remnant will be left after judgment, but these shall rebuild the walls of that Grand Old Mansion, the Temple of God who we are.

I had a vision of this very thing...

recorded here:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=31212&forum=48&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

Time to temper the mortar...

Again, I shared this in another thread, but it is appropriate here as well.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, but it certainly not the end of it. I would rather set a heart on fire in love for God, then to cower before Him as many will obviously do who are not saved, when they have to stand before Him.

Romans 8:20-21 (New King James Version)

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

...delivered from fear too and those who propagate it with a false gospel, like the Roman Catholics. The gospel is good news, not bad news!

Hear the words of the Apostle John:

John 4:17-19 (New King James Version)

The Consummation of Love

17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness (THAT WE MAY BOLDNESS) in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love (THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE); but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.

I would rather set your heart on fire for Him in love as a zealot ...as a glorious child of God, then to cause you to fear Him in torment. If you have ever been touched by the Holy Ghost, then you know exactly what I am talking about - you will love Him with a burning and unquenchable indescribable love. You will cleave to Him and absolutely hate the things that He hates and you will love the things that he loves, and what breaks His heart will break yours as well.

Sometimes fear is a necessary tool, I agree, (and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God when you are not saved) but remember to temper the mortar, that is to say: temper judgment with His mercy and with the love of God that leads us to repentance, which does not cause me to fear but to love Him.(fruits)

Fear to the disobedient, but love, joy, and peace to the elect of God - to those that are truly born again. And oh what a glorious joy it is to come before the Lord! (think David dancing with all of his might)

When The Oil Flows

You are my friends if you obey me. I no longer call you servants, because a master doesn’t confide in his servants. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me. John 15.14,15 Jesus called His disciples His friends…who became the Apostles…elect members of the Bride.

Consider the parable of the ten virgins…(all the virgins believe in Christ, but are not the same before God)
The oil in the lamps has to do with the inner workings of the Holy Spirit (Oil) in a person’s life.

One person seeks the presence of God inwardly, while another stays worldly/carnal and does not grow. One person will never deny the Lord Jesus Christ, while another will say nothing about being a Christian publicly. One person will seek the presence of God inwardly, while another pushes it away and goes about works as a way to gain God’s favor...much like Cain did when he offered grain before God, and not like Abel who pursued the heart of God with love.

But a city that is set upon a hill cannot be hid.

Be zealous for God in all things, and let your heart burn in love for Him with a holy fervor in love. I have found when I apply this oil to my life that I find myself being very much in Love with the Author of my being. And because of that, how can I not love my brother when I see God in him, when it is God that I am in love with. 1 John 4:20 So even if my brother differs from me in understanding, I still love God in him…and will endeavor to treat him with respect as one who has my Father’s image.

Love comes from the Holy Spirit, and when this Oil Flows, my lamp is always full of oil at ALL times, night or day and at any hour. And if a person does this, they will not be numbered among the foolish virgins who did not keep oil in their lamps.

So to keep my lamp full, I will ask God to give me the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) so that I will always stay in love with God, full of faith, good works and of the Holy Spirit, and endeavor to keep the unity of the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Holy Spirit come, in brightness of your coming, and in truth. Fill our lamps with oil, so that we may see in the dark. Break the bonds of sin in us your children, and let us see with perfect light, with the oil that you have given us in our lamps. Let my heart love you in depths of my being, to core of who I am forever and ever. Amen.

Father, take not your Holy Spirit from me and forgive me for my trespasses, and let me love you with perfect love in my soul, and let me show this love in everything, everything that I do. Let my life be seasoned with salt, and let the sweet smelling savor of my Lord Jesus be within me, and fill me completely, till I come into the image of my Lord whom I love.

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ that has so captured my heart! Wow, and what a glorious gospel it is!

James 5:16 (New King James Version)
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Erendel, thanks for sharing. I personally don't like referring to the filling of the Spirit as being drunk in the Spirit. But technically and Biblically some can make a case of that terminology from Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit." It does seem to me that Paul is comparing the Spirit's filling with drunkeness there. Just a thought.

Back in 1991 the Lord gave me an open eye vision that lasted about 1 or 2 minutes. It was a vision concerning last things. Particullary the Harvest.

The Lord won't allow me to post it here. But he has released me to tell you a portion. You see after the Lord gave me this vision, he had me send it out to a hand full of ministries.

I heard back from only 1 and that was Carol Hayden. She compared it to Tommy Hicks end time vision. I listen to a cassett tape that she recorded for me, I didn't even know who Tommy Hicks was. I live in central Missouri and carol lives in SouthBend Indiana.

After I sent the Vision to these ministries the Lord told me that he wanted me to teach the things in the vision but, to hold the vision for a time.

Here is what the Lord is allowing me to share.

In this vision, the Lord showed me a remnant of saints and he showed me backslidders in the faith and those whom never heard the word of God.

The Lord open my eyes to the backslidden and I saw there spirit. they look like cancer patients. Boney and sunken in. The same was true for those whom never heard the word of God. Except there spirits were dark and there eyes were sunken in to there sockets and a black film was covering them.

The saints were preaching the word in the streets, allies ways on the byways, house to house and one on one. In the country and rural areas. the saints moved fast they seemed to be walking on the air.

Then I seen the Lost souls of this world recieving the word of God. There spirits suddenly became full of life and bright , white as snow. There was glow on there outward body and they began moving with great annointings from God.

There are many things that I would like to share here. As I said the Lord will not allow me to release it.

by Oracio on 2010/12/8 20:49:03

Erendel, thanks for sharing. I personally don't like referring to the filling of the Spirit as being drunk in the Spirit. But technically and Biblically some can make a case of that terminology from Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit." It does seem to me that Paul is comparing the Spirit's filling with drunkeness there. Just a thought.

Drunkenness is NOT implied Oracio.

There is an infilling of joy and glory that the Holy Spirit gives, a sense of well-being, peace, calm(some call it a holy hush), all rolled up into one - a communion with Him if you will.

In the presence of God there is a sense of overwhelming Joy (and you do feel it), The Apostle Peter says:

American King James Version
Whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you see him not, yet believing, you rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1 Peter 1:8

The Apostle Paul says:
Romans 14:17 (New King James Version)
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and (peace and joy in the Holy Spirit).

2 Corinthians 13:14 (New King James Version)
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the (communion of the Holy Spirit) be with you all. Amen.

Acts 13:52 (New King James Version)
And the disciples were (filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.)

My own experience with the Holy Ghost I recorded:

After a period of deep repentance, Godly sorrow, and turning back to God (as I was a prodigal)...

It was summertime, in the cool of the evening when I was alone in my garden. It happened while I was on my knees digging around the raspberry bushes, while in prayer before the Lord.

I was overshadowed by the Presence of the Spirit of God.

In that moment I felt His deep love rest upon me... an indiscrible release and rapture in my spirit, accompanied by a peace and a joy unspeakable(full of glory) that only comes from the Holy Spirit...it felt as if my innocence was completely returned to me in that moment before God, and indeed it was, as the Blood of the Lamb was sprinkled over my sins.

It was in that moment, while the Spirit of God was upon me, that I humbly looked up into heaven and I worshipped Him who made the Heavens and the Earth. It was in that moment that I decided that I would love the God of heaven forever...I decided this, and I told Him so.

In that moment I understood the beauty of the Lord, His magnificence and His majesty; I felt my soul knit to the Lord. My soul loves Him above all else in this life, for He is my lot and my portion forever.

In that moment I understood Him in the depths of my spirit; I cried out to the one who formed me from the dust of the Earth and I said to Him...I will love you in my heart forever! I made my abode with Him, and He came into my heart and He made His abode with me.

My mind is continually upon Him...His anointing remains with me. I feel His Spirit continually drawing me...and my heart is tender and loves Him above anything else in this world. It is hard to put such things into words because these things are Spirit. I love Him in my very soul; in the very center of my being...I cannot explain it. I extol Him above all things as standing before Him.

I yield to your Spirit Lord Jesus, that I should love you in this way. I desire you above the love of women; my soul yearns and thirsts for you; I am born of you. I choose to love you in my heart, for you are beautiful to me, I love everything about you...your gentleness, your kindness, your long suffering, forgiveness and patience for me, the list goes on and on...Oh to worship you in your beautiful glory, in the beauty of holiness. Oh to behold you...how my soul is transformed into your image as I worship you...Oh to be as you are my Lord and my King. To be like you, to be called your son is the greatest gift and reward of love...to have your beautiful Holy Spirit in my soul changing me into your image. I have no King but Jesus!

My heart is tender and contrite...melted within me by the holy fire of God's love, as wax before the Flame. Oh how I love and extol the living God of heaven!! Oh how truly pleased I am with Him!!

With deepest humility I want to state how grateful I am that the Lord has saved me, and washed me from my sins, and that my name is written down in heaven!

With humility of spirit, meekness, unpretentiousness and modesty, I gladly accept your calling on my life oh love of my soul...with the joy and communion of the Holy Spirit.

Your word, your pure and holy word burns within me with indescribable and unquenchable fire and zeal; I love, worship and extol you oh living God of heaven...beyond all else in this life.

My own experience with Him (infilling of the Holy Ghost) led me into beautiful worship of Him. His presence is HOLY not carnal.

~~~~

The problem in using the word "drunkenness" in reference to the Holy Ghost, is the word drunkenness conjures up certain expectations in the carnal, especially to the unlearned and those that don't know any better.

Look at the definition:

Drunken Revelry
Also found in: Encyclopedia, Wikipedia, Hutchinson\t0.01 sec.
Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1.\tdrunken revelry - a wild gathering involving excessive drinking and promiscuity.
debauch, debauchery, bacchanalia, saturnalia, bacchanal, orgy, riot
revel, revelry - unrestrained merrymaking
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2008 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.

source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/drunken+revelry

~~~

Have you ever gone into a church service, and some people were misbehaving jumping on their chairs and were howling like a pack of dogs or roaring like lions? Where is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in this? I heard some story that a woman brought her husband into the sanctuary with a dog collar and leash on him, and I understand that this is common with some so called revivals. This is NOT the Holy Ghost that I have come to know.

I know, as many do, what it is to be overshadowed by the Holy Ghost; I personally know, as many here do, the Shekinah Glory of God. He helps me in my weakness; He comforts me when I am downcast - when my trials and tribulations get me down. He is there to correct me when I fail and fall, and He is there when I do well to praise me. When I have no strength, He is my strength; He is my refuge, my comforter, the rock of my salvation and my strong habitation. He (God) is the love of my life. He leads me in the paths of righteousness and holiness for His names sake. He changes me from carnal into the image of Jesus Christ.

And of my Lord Jesus - My mind is continually upon Him...His anointing remains with me. I feel His Spirit continually drawing me...and my heart is tender and loves Him above anything else in this world. It is hard to put such things into words because these things are Spirit. I love Him in my very soul; in the very center of my being...I cannot explain it. I extol Him above all things as standing before Him. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, changing me into the image of Jesus Christ - the new man.

Ephesians 5

Walk in Love

1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Walk in Light

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:

“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

Bretheren,

I used to be a drunkard and the Presence of the Holy Spirit is like the exact opposite of the presence of alcohol. I believe I used to use so many drugs in order to replace what I had lost in the fall, the presence of God. Praise the Lord! He has made a way through the veil into his presence by the eternal sacrifice of his shed blood on the cross. Thank you Jesus.

Love,

Travis

by sonsigns on 2010/12/8 19:09:00

Very good.

you said in your post "Why would anyone EVER want to refer to the beautiful anointing of the Holy Spirit of God as "Getting Drunk"?

here is your answer- Look in Acts chapter 2 verse 13.

Spiritual things have to be compared to natural things. To natural man they appeared to be drunk. So, some ministers say drunk in the spirit instead of being filled.

But Peter defended the Holy Ghost by saying:

For these [are not drunk], as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.

Please read the rest of it: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202:14-21&version=NKJV

So if the Apostle Peter was NOT willing to refer the Holy Ghost as drunkenness, then why should any minister?

It just seems to me that a worldliness has crept into some of the church. I have heard some very coarse jesting coming from some of these so called "Apostles" of today ...a carnal worldliness and a type of Christianity that I want nothing to do with.

Earendel, you have made a very good case against using the word drunkeness as to refering the Holy Ghost. Although I don't use this word many do.

It was unbelievers that said they were drunk. Do you refer to the things of God as a non believer do? Do we see things an unbeliever does? Only a spiritual man can compare spiritual to natural correctly. A natural man, as in the book of acts mentioned, will compare incorrectly more so. You speak of your own authority when you say we have to compare spiritual things to natural things. I stand correct if you can show me otherwise from scripture.

Erendel, I understand what you are saying and I agree that we need to be careful on how we speak of the Holy Spirit's operations in us.
However, after considering Ephesians 5:18 some more, it seems that a sound interpretation of it would force us to take Paul as saying in essence, "instead of being drunk and filled with wine, be filled with the Spirit of God." I found Matthew Henry's take on that passage edifying. He states:

"1. He warns against the sin of drunkenness: And be not drunk with wine, v.18. This was a sin very frequent among the heathens; and particularly on occasion of the festivals of their gods, and more especially in their Bacchanalia: then they were wont to inflame themselves with wine, and all
manner of inordinate lusts were consequent upon it: and therefore the apostle adds, wherein, or in which drunkenness, is excess. The word asotia may signify luxury or dissoluteness; and it is certain that drunkenness is
no friend to chastity and purity of life, but it virtually contains all manner of extravagance, and transports men into gross sensuality and vile enormities. Note, Drunkenness is a sin that seldom goes alone, but often
involves men in other instances of guilt: it is a sin very provoking to God, and a great hindrance to the spiritual life. The apostle may mean all such intemperance and disorder as are opposite to the sober and prudent demeanor he intends in his advice, to redeem the time. 2. Instead of being filled with wine, he exhorts them to be filled with the Spirit. Those who are full of drink are not likely to be full of the Spirit; and therefore this duty is opposed to the former sin. The meaning of the exhortation is that men should labour for a plentiful measure of the graces
of the Spirit, that would fill their souls with great joy, strength, and courage, which things sensual men expect their wine should inspire them with. We cannot be guilty of any excess in our endeavours after these: nay, we ought not to be satisfied with a little of the Spirit, but to be aspiring after measures, so as to be filled with the Spirit. Now by this means we shall come to understand what the will of the Lord is; for the Spirit of God is given as a Spirit of wisdom and of understanding. And because those who are filled with the Spirit will be carried out in acts of devotion, and all the proper expressions of it, therefore the apostle exhorts, 3. To sing unto the Lord, v. 19. Drunkards are wont to sing obscene and profane songs. The heathens, in their Bacchanalia, used to sing hymns to Bacchus, whom they called the god of wine. Thus they expressed their joy; but the joy of Christians should express itself in songs of praise to their God. In these they should speak to themselves in their assemblies and meetings together, for mutual edification. By psalms may be meant David's psalms, or such composures as were fitly sung with musical instruments. By hymns may be meant such others as were confined to matter of praise, as those of Zacharias, Simeon, etc. Spiritual songs may contain a greater variety of matter, doctrinal, prophetical, historical, etc. Observe here, (1.) The singing of psalms and hymns is a gospel ordinance: it is an ordinance of God, and appointed for his glory. (2.) Though Christianity is an enemy to profane mirth, yet it encourages joy and gladness, and the proper expressions of these in the professors of
it. God's people have reason to rejoice, and to sing for joy. They are to sing and to make melody in their hearts; not only with their voices, but with inward affection, and then their doing this will be as delightful and acceptable to God as music is to us: and it must be with a design to please him, and to promote his glory, that we do this; and then it will be done to the Lord.4. Thanksgiving is another duty that the apostle exhorts to, v. 20. We are appointed to sing psalms, etc., for the expression of our thankfulness to God; but, though we are not always singing, we should never want a disposition for this duty, as we never want matter for it. We must continue it throughout the whole course of our lives; and we should give thanks for
all things; not only for spiritual blessings enjoyed, and eternal ones expected (for what of the former we have in hand, and for what of the other we have in hope), but for temporal mercies too; not only for our comforts, but also for our sanctified afflictions; not only for what immediately concerns ourselves, but for the instances of God's kindness and favour to others also. It is our duty in every thing to give thanks unto God and the Father, to God as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in him, in whose name we are to offer up all our prayers, and
praises, and spiritual services, that they may be acceptable to God."(Matthew Henry)

Here is what I meant by this.

A non- Christian will compare what they see to things in this world.

A Christian will compare the things of the spirit also to the things of this world as well. The reason for this is because we do not have words that will correctly identifiy spiritual things.

When the Holy SPirit descended on Jesus, the holy spirit was compared to a dove. That is what he look like to natural man. Even though we are christians and spiritual we are still in this natural world and we still use the same language as non-christians. Unless we walk around all day and speak in tongues. then whom will understand us?

When Moses was commanded by God to build the temple and the ark, God gave specific directions on what materials to use and what it was to look like when completed. Why, because they were representations of things in the spiritual realm.

Moses was making duplicates of the things that are in Heaven. Somewhere in Revelations the ark of the covenant is in heaven. How can it be unless God raptured the ark?
No, it has always been in heaven. What is on earth is a copy of the origanol.

is this making any sense? This is the best I can describe it.

Now when I witness to non-christians I use things in the natural to compare things that are spiritual because they can not comprehend spiritual things.

Being born again, Jesus used this term to Nicodemous. Again it is a comparison of something spiritual in the natural.

Although I do not talk about "now when you get born again and recieve the Holy Spirit you may appear to others as being drunk..." thats foolishness.

1 Peter 4:17 (New King James Version)

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

No one is going to escape what is coming - which is the threshing floor. Interesting thing about wheat, the chaff(hull) and the grain are beaten together until the chaff falls away from the grain and the wind blows it away leaving the wheat berry on the threshing floor all by itself, which comes first before it can be gathered into the barn (rapture).

I have learned that If there is one thing that grieves the Holy Spirit it is drunkenness.

Everywhere in scripture when I read about this, it is always a sin, and those who indulge the flesh in this practice shall never inherit the kingdom of God, at least that is what the bible says:

"Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:10

Why would anyone EVER want to refer to the beautiful anointing of the Holy Spirit of God as "Getting Drunk"?

Why refer to something that is "so holy" and "so pure" and clean and good and refer to it as in the carnal, fleshly, unrepented, as a sinful indulgence of the flesh as "getting drunk"? Doesn't anyone see the wrong in this?

It is truly wonderful to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but this is very holy and beautiful and not carnal like 'getting drunk'. I love the presence of the Holy Spirit when He overshadows me; I love and worship God in my soul in those moments like I can never describe it here with words.

This is the first judgment I believe that comes, which falls on what is called the church - Christianity (all of the many thousands of denominations of it). Oh that we would all have a heart after God.

The Church received power for Godly living and testimony on Pentecost - It is through the righteousness and grace of God that the free gift of the Holy Spirit is given, even to us, who through obedience to the faith in Christ Jesus are made righteous by His shed blood...in that He took away our sins, and in the absence of sin the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled; therefore, the Holy Spirit could come. It was not until Jesus Christ had ascended to the Father, after His resurrection, that the Holy Ghost could be given - which is the promise of the free gift.

And this is why the Holy Ghost could be given freely to us:

"Where there is no sin, the Law of God cannot condemn, but is fulfilled."

Jesus Christ, with His own blood entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption for us. It was not until sin was removed (through the cross of Christ), and the righteous requirements of the law were fulfilled (absence of sin), that the Holy Spirit could come, who wrote the laws of God on our hearts rather than on tablets of stone...even as it is written "I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

It is a common statement with some of Christianity today that we have to live with the "sinful nature" in this life as long as we live.

This is a lie, God has given us power over sin, which is in the Blood of the Lamb!

Some teachers of Christianity today take the Apostle Paul's writing out of context when he stated:

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Romans 7:18-20

...they read this as though we have to live with no power for Godly living.

But the Apostle was referring to life "before" the Holy Ghost was given.

They miss what he says next in his line of thought, rationale and teaching which is:

For what the law could not do(written law on tablets of stone), in that it was weak through the flesh (because we could not keep the law through the flesh), God (did) (by)sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (took away the sins - so that power for holy living could be given by the Holy Ghost in us):

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (absence of sin through the blood of Christ), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4

For if you live according to the flesh (For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do) you will die; but if by the (Holy)Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body (power for righteous and holy living), you will live. Rom 8:13 (parenthesis emphasis above is mine)

And this is why, I believe, judgment comes. ...because we have neglected so great a salvation...which is the God life in us through His Holy Spirit.

But I cannot refer to the judgment of God without referring to His great mercies for humanity (of whom I am the largest recipient)...because as it is written God is not willing that any should perish.

And I am not talking about sinless perfection (in this life) here (we still have to deal with Eph 6:12 on a daily basis which is NOT the sinful nature), but they will be taken out of the way soon enough as per: Revelation 12:7-10

... but I am referring to the way into the Holiest of All, the very presence of God (in us) - the Divine life, which God in his mercy has freely given to us (the embryo or seed of God in us)the God life, the new creation, the new birth.

And this is the judgment - a certain fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - to deny or refuse the sanctifying, life changing work of the Holy Ghost in us. (Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power for Godly living - no God life in them)

We really need a true revival of the Holy Ghost...and we need a functioning body (Ephesians 4:11-13)

Someone (From Israel) responded to my post on this topic on another forum and said concerning the Holy Ghost:

I was recently leading worship at an intercessors meeting and wow, the PRESENCE arrived SO heavily, that I could barely stand or sing. The people were first almost staggering under the glory of His presence and then went on their faces. It was an amazing two hours like that. We could not stand before His HOLINESS!

The POWER of His presence!

The GREATNESS of His Glory!

All we could do was REPENT!

Revelation 1:17

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last."

I agree.

Their is a difference between the genuine and the counterfeit.

~~~

Amen to that!