Revelation - the 3rd seal

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

Hi saints

Rev 6:5 When he opened the 3rd seal, I heard the 3rd living creature say, "Come!" And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And it's rider had a pair of scales in his hand.

The term translated here as scales, is the Greek word "Zugon", it is the same word that is used in Matthew 11:29, 30 translated there as "yoke".

A yoke is a wooden bar that joins/bonds 2 draft animals together. In the Torah it denotes severe bondage, affliction, or subjection.(Lev 26:13, 1kings 12:4, Lam 3:27). In the new testament it is used to denote servitude (Matt 11:29,30, Acts 15:10, Gal 5:1) Ref net bible.org/dictionary.

Note in Num 19:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD has commanded. Instruct the Israelities to bring you a red heifer, without blemish, which has no defect and has never carried a yoke.

I have been shown this rider is our Lord Jesus Christ. I will continue this tommorrow and explain further, in relation to the rest of the passage.

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

Talk about exciting!

Finally. . .
someone who just may be on the very same page; yet with so much to do right here currently
and preparing for discouse about another topic on SI, (related--in a few ways--to what you write andie72), God has not led me to explain what you are now doing.

Here on SI, again and again, it's been seen how God prepares things for certain threads to just happen at the right time, following a progression from one thread and it's postings onto the next.

PRAISE GOD!
He does all things better than just right: the perfect time and place for everything to happen. . .
with impact.

From Him, this is another energy boost that seemed to just show up out of the blue catching me by surprise in good ways.

In this very thing He has now given me much much more gratitude.

You just keep on and i'm praying to this end.

Unto Him who is both our blessing and blesser
i'll keep on clap my hands jumping and leaping and praising Him who has declared the end since the beginning.

Praise Jesus: the very treasure chest of all wisdom and knowledge with understanding. In Him, we are not caught off guard. . .unless He just wants to surprise us.

Oh give thanks
and glory to God!

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

Rev 6:6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the 4 living creatures, saying "a quart of wheat for a denarius, and 3 quarts of barley for a denarius.

The barley sheaf offering is offered on the 2nd day of passover. It is a wave/peace offering waved/lifted up before the LORD.

The wheat offering is offered on the 50ith day after the barley offering. It is represented as 2 loaves of levened bread. From passover until now the bread is unlevened.

The barley represents Jesus Christ high priest and barley, offering himself up to the LORD, athough his sacrifice had many other values also). The Passion.

The wheat offering is our offering of spiritual fruit rising/waved before the LORD, spreading/expanding with new leven. The pentacost.

If we are yoked to Jesus Christ, we offer ourselves (singular), and are accepted as righteous (tribune/divine number 3)

Thank you for your support brother. All glory be to The Lord Jesus Christ:)

Ref Lev 3:9-17 Num 28:16-31
Wikipedia had information on feasts of the Jews, Biblical calender, helpful to read while you read the Torah.

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

I encourage anyone reading this to read about the grain harvest in biblical times, and the feasts to the LORD,.particularly the 3 pilgrim feasts (to Jerusalem). The grain offering is only one part of this. There are other offerings also which Jesus fulfilled.

The barley sheaf offering is offered on the 2nd day of passover. It is a wave/peace offering waved/lifted up before the LORD.

The wheat offering is offered on the 50ith day after the barley offering. It is represented as 2 loaves of levened bread. From passover until now the bread is unlevened.

The barley represents Jesus Christ high priest and barley, offering himself up to the LORD as a peace offering on our behalf, (although his sacrifice had many other values also). This is the Passion.

The wheat offering is our offering of spiritual fruit rising/waved before the LORD, spreading/expanding with new leven. This is Pentacost.

If we are yoked to Jesus Christ, we offer ourselves (singular), and are accepted as righteous (tribune/divine number 3)

Ref Lev 3:9-17 Num 28:16-31
Wikipedia had information on feasts of the Jews, Biblical calender, helpful to read while you read the Torah.

G

ginnyrose Dec 15, 2010

The spiritualization of this passage is confusing to me.

In v.1 we see the Lamb, who is Jesus, opening the seals. So, then, it would follow that what these horses are is something that will happen literally...

But then, I do not want to enter into a debate about Revelation - it means too much to me - I love the book, it gives me much comfort. The book details the power, majesty of our LORD and Savior Jesus. It demonstrates that while evil may reign for a while, all of it is under the control of God who is working to bring all people to repentance through afflictions, trials and calamities.

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

Hi Ginny,

It is actually very physical things reaching their spiritual fulfilment in Jesus Christ. The Torah forshadowed what Jesus was about to do. If you find it confusing don't burden yourself with it Ginny, the LORD reaches us in different ways. Just abide in Jesus Christ. Also I am not denying other meaning in the passage. This is just one that made sense to me.

The Lord has been revealing/ opening up the scriptures to me for a while, and I have found it a bit overwhelming. I thought I would just share bits at a time, rather than being surrounded by bits of paper trying to connect it up. I feel this is what I am being led to do.

What I share I do with fear and trembling and I welcome correction from those more mature in the faith.

G

ginnyrose Dec 15, 2010

Go ahead. I do not want to discourage you...we all are learning...I find Revelation so exciting...

ginnyrose

G

ginnyrose Dec 15, 2010

Andie, I will not debate you although I may question you...hope this will not rattle you...I do find it obnoxious when people think they know ALL about Revelation and are closed minded to any honest questions put forth by serious students of the WORD.

God bless.
ginnyrose

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

All I seem to be able to come up with - my only thought and feeling inside right this minute and it's not sarcasm, but just a mind and body response at this moment - if you don't mind my joining in - just for now - this is all I feel & hear inside my puny brain at this moment = "Oy Vey"

Thank you for the opportunity to express myself in words also.

GOD Bless you all.

U

UntoBabes Dec 15, 2010

The text is so simple to understand that it speaks of famine, one of the judgments of the last days.

As to the meaning of the word " Zugon " although it can mean a yoke, here in the text it means a pair of scales to weigh the wheat and barely to represent that food is scarce. When things are in abundance, they are not measured, but when they are scarce it is necessary to measure everything.

Why is the word "Yoke" used and not "scales".

The two words simply mean the same thing.
Scales in their ancient form were made of a rod that had two plates attached to the end. A weight was placed in one plate and the produce in the other.

When animals were used for labor to carry things such as water, a yoke was made that looked exactly like a pair of scales but instead of the plates two jugs of water or whatever that is to be carried by the animal was attached on both sides. Thus the word "Zugon" can be used to mean either "pair of scales" or a "yoke".

The reason why people like to spiritualize the book of Revelations is that they do not believe these are things that will take place in the future, so if they can make it all mean something Jesus did or fulfilled, no one can open his mouth saying: "Wait a minute, this is wrong".
After all, that would be taking the glory from the work of Jesus by refusing to see Him in every interpretation of every verse.

People have done so much harm to the Scriptures using these cunning devices, thus harming the Lord Himself.

B

bowmyknees Dec 15, 2010

Amen UntoBabes

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

I think it would be best if I post the rest of these things elsewhere. I am not angry or hurt by yr comments,.but I can see it is not helpful for you, so I will stop here:)

Walk in love

Andie

U

UntoBabes Dec 15, 2010

I do not apologize about one word I said in my previous post. In fact, it is not even my place, or right to ask for apology for defending the Word from false interpretations. But I do apologize for hurting you. That is not my intention. As members of one body, what hurts you hurts me too.

G

ginnyrose Dec 15, 2010

Andie,

You love the LORD, of that I am sure...go ahead and post. When it comes to the book of Revelation, there will be differences of 'opinion', of how people understand it. We must always be in a learning mode. If I ask questions, I really do want to know.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

Believe me when I say I'm not hurt! I'm not sayng anyone said anything nasty or rude. I have just recognized that it is not helpful for some/?all of you, so my role now is to pull back. I'm not leaving just putting some of my thoughts elsewhere.

U

UntoBabes Dec 15, 2010

ginny,

I know the Book is hard in some areas, and we will disagree in some parts. But let us at least agree where it is obvious. This specific passage is self explanatory. If we would just read the Scriptures and pray for God't light to reveal the Word for us there will not be much that we disagree on. Neither, me or Andie have the right to just run our imaginations wild where the Word is clear. We will give an account for this.

L

Lesserlight Dec 15, 2010

It is good to study the feasts

However leaven is sin and nobody wants to offer up praise mixed with leaven

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Barley will not bond with leaven and the reason we see unleavened bread before Pentecost and leavened bread afterwards is because Christ who is without sin comes into sinful man as a light in the midst of a dark place. On the other hand wheat will bond with leaven that represents sin thus we have bread made with leaven representing Christians who have the Holy Spirit but are still dealing with a sin issue

A sin offering is without leaven the same as Jesus Christ is without sin who is our sin offering. Meat offerings were also without leaven and this is the fruit we want to offer up and not leavened bread.

Meat offerings were fleshless finely ground flour (fully prepared to do the Lord's work) without any leaven (sin) that is how we are to become

Consequently Paul said that we may be resurrected as some other grain because Jesus was sown into what is mortal so that we can put on immortality by being resurrected without sin the same as Jesus is........ Paul was saying you were sown in wheat for the hope of being resurrected as barley (the other grain that is without sin)

Jesus said to Peter that Satan wanted to sift him like wheat because that is what Satan does to the wheat (christians) that he was unable to do with the barley that represents Christ

However Jesus said to Peter that He would intercede for Peter "until he be converted (changed to barley) and be able to strengthen his brothers, Thus the death that Peter died that glorified God was his death to self that allowed him to be converted and resurrected sinless unto Christ.

Obviously churches that partake of leavened bread for the body of Christ during communion are doing so out of ignorance and are insulting God.

Blessings'

Doug

U

UntoBabes Dec 15, 2010

Paul was saying you were sown in wheat for the hope of being resurrected as barley

):<

Ok, I am done with this thread.

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

Hi Lesserlight,

Lev 23:17 And you shall bring from your dwelling places 2 loaves of bread to be waved, made of 2 tenths of an Ephah. They shall be of fine flour, and they shall be baked with leven, as 1st fruits to the lord.

This is the offering of the first fruits 7 weeks after.the passover. It is called "the feasts.of weeks" or "the counting of the omar".

It is on the 50ith day following passover.

This parallels with Jesus Christ, at the passover the Israelites ate unlevened bread (removal of the leven of sin). The body of Jesus Christ was sinless.

And the feast of weeks, leven was added to the bread waved before the LORD. This parallels pentocost. The body of Jesus Christ grew with new leven.

Remember leven Isn't sinful in itself. It is just something which causes it to spread/rise. It is a physical picture of a spiritual truth

sermonindex Dec 15, 2010

If we are yoked to Jesus Christ we long to be resurrected.as.barley.

Note that barley is the poor persons food,.or for animals. So to the natural man 3 measures or barley do equal the single measure of barley. The spiritual man knows that he needs to yoke himself to Jesus Christ because our Father in heaven values thing differently than the father who rules most of the earth.