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Trouble In Narnia

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dspks Dec 18, 2010

Are Christians being deceived by "NARNIA"???...

C.S. Lewis said: “Christianity fulfilled paganism” and “paganism prefigured Christianity.”[1]

1. Roger Lancelyn Green, “C.S. Lewis: A Biography,” Harcourt Inc., 1974, pages 274 and 30.

I won't post a link but... do as others do here... "copy and paste"


The quote below is from "Kjos Ministries" article by:Mary Ann Collins February 2006

I've been uneasy about the enthusiasm for Narnia. Then one morning I woke up vividly remembering some things in the third Narnia book. And now I recognize the root of what has been troubling me. I had read all of C.S. Lewis' books, including his essays, his collections of letters, his science fiction, and the Narnia books. I read most of the books more than once, and I read the Narnia books many times. I also read all the books of Charles Williams because he was a close friend of Lewis' and Lewis spoke so highly of his books. And I read all of George MacDonald's books because Lewis admired him and spoke well of his books."

"The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" is the third book in the Narnia series. It directly promotes spells and magic. Chapter 10 ("The Magician's Book") features a book of spells that is on an island inhabited by invisible creatures called Dufflepuds. Lucy works a spell to make the Dufflepuds visible. She goes through a spell book, and it is beautiful and fascinating. Then she finds the right spell and says the words and follows the instructions. And then the Dufflepuds (and Aslan) become visible. Her spell made Aslan visible, and he is pleased with what she did. The book of spells is beautiful and fascinating. One spell is illustrated with pictures of bees that look as if they are really flying. In the world of C.S. Lewis’ day, this would not have caused practical problems. However, these days, kids can go to regular bookstores and buy spell books written by modern witches.

Many Christians are treating the Narnia books as being an allegory, with Aslan representing Jesus and the children representing Christians. If you do this with “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader,” then you portray Jesus as being pleased when Christians do magic and work spells. And you support the idea that that there are “good” spells and “good” magic. That belief is the basis for modern “white” witchcraft. However, the Bible clearly forbids any form of witchcraft:

"There shall not be found among you anyone who... practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

In the book, the Dufflepuds are ruled by a wizard. He uses magic to rule the Dufflepuds because they aren’t yet mature enough to be ruled directly by Aslan. So there is good magic and a good wizard. This magic prepares people for relationship with Aslan. Again, if Aslan is taken as a symbol for Jesus, then magic prepares people to become Christians. In our modern culture, that would mean that Wicca is a way to get to know Jesus and become His follower.

Back when C.S. Lewis wrote the Narnia stories, Wicca did not exist. Kids who read the books couldn’t experiment with spells. But this is a different world today. Now kids are surrounded by movies and TV shows that promote witchcraft, and they may know kids at their school who dabble in it. What will happen when Disney comes out with a movie of “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”? Christian kids may wind up feeling free to practice magic. And this could help break down the barrier between Christianity and Wicca. It could “Christianize” witchcraft in the eyes of some Christian kids.

There are some other problems with C.S. Lewis' widespread influence. Blending God's truth with occult tales, he laid an enticing foundation for apostasy. For starters in understanding the man, here is a quotation from a letter that he wrote describing a trip that he and his wife Joy took to Greece in 1960. He wrote,

“I had some ado to prevent Joy and myself from relapsing into Paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn’t feel it would have been very wrong”. Lewis also said that “Christianity fulfilled paganism” and “paganism prefigured Christianity.”

[1] In his autobiography (Surprised by Joy), Lewis tells how at age 13 he abandoned his Anglican faith due to the influence of a school mistress who was involved with “Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, Spiritualism; the whole Anglo-American Occultist tradition.” And Lewis developed a “lust” for the occult that remained with him even after he returned to Anglicanism. He said, “And that started in me something with which, on and off, I have had plenty of trouble since--the desire for the preternatural, simply as such, the passion for the Occult. Not everyone has this disease; those who have will know what I mean. I once tried to describe it in a novel. It is a spiritual lust; and like the lust of the body it has the fatal power of making everything else in the world seem uninteresting while it lasts.”

[2] Lewis said that he described that lust for the occult in a novel. It occurs in the third book of his science fiction trilogy. A man is in the process of being initiated into an inner ring of scientists who are occultists. They worship demons, which they call “macrobes” (huge, powerful invisible things, as opposed to microbes, which are tiny invisible things). “Here, here surely at last (so his desire whispered to him) was the true inner circle of all, the circle whose centre was outside the human race--the ultimate secret, the supreme power, the last initiation. The fact that it was almost completely horrible did not in the least diminish its attraction.”

[3] “These creatures [demons]... breathed death on the human race and on all joy. Not despite this but because of this, the terrible gravitation sucked and tugged and fascinated him towards them. Never before had he known the fruitful strength of the movement opposite to Nature which now had him in its grip; the impulse to reverse all reluctances and to draw every circle anti-clockwise.” (“That Hideous Strength,” p. 269.) Note that Lewis said that he had trouble with that lust for the occult ever since his encounter with the Matron in his boys’ school. He wrote that statement in 1955. By then, he had written all but three of his books.

[4] Lewis dedicated his autobiography (“Surprised by Joy”) to Bede Griffiths, a former student of his who became a long-time friend. Griffiths founded a “Christian ashram” in India. He said that Hindu temples are a “sacrament.” And he said, “No one can say in the proper sense that the Hindu, the Buddhist or the Muslim is an ‘unbeliever.’ I would say rather that we have to recognize him as our brother in Christ.”

[5] What Bede Griffiths did and said is the logical conclusion of a statement that C.S. Lewis made in “Mere Christianity.” He said, “There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it. For example, a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain other points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ’s birth may have been in this position.”

[6] Lewis said that he was strongly influenced by George MacDonald, who was a universalist. MacDonald’s book “Lilith” is based on an occult teaching that Adam was married to a demon named Lilith before he married Eve. By the end of MacDonald’s book, Lilith is redeemed, and Adam says that even the devil will eventually be redeemed. This universalism shows up in some of Lewis’ fiction books. In “The Great Divorce,” Lewis is in Heaven. He speaks with George MacDonald and asks him about universalism, and MacDonald answers that Lewis cannot understand such things now. In the last of the Narnia books (“The Last Battle”), a pagan makes it to Heaven (“Aslan’s Land”) because of his good works and his good motives, in spite of the fact that he did not believe in Aslan and he worshipped Aslan’s enemy, a false god named Tash. Lilith shows up in “The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.” Mr. Beaver tells the children that the White Witch is descended from Lilith, who is the “first wife” of Adam. This could cause confusion, especially for children. Although Mr. Beaver is a fictional character, he is speaking authoritatively about the real world--the real Adam and Eve of the Bible. Lewis spoke very highly of Charles Williams and his books, so I read all of his books. They are novels that mix darkness and occultism with some insights about Christianity. In “The Greater Trumps,” the hero is a saintly woman who saves the day by doing magic with Tarot cards. Williams was as much a mixture as his books were. He started out as a serious occultist. He believed Theosophy and other occult teachings, and he joined the Golden Dawn, a group that practices “sex magick,” which is ritual sex that is done for the purpose of getting occult power. (The notorious Satanist, Aleister Crowley, was a member of the Golden Dawn.) Williams left the Golden Dawn and joined the Anglican church, but he kept some of his Theosophical beliefs. Lewis also had a close friend named Owen Barfield. He dedicated the Narnia books to him and named Lucy after Barfield’s daughter. Barfield was a philosopher who started out with Theosophy and developed his own version of it. According to Theosophy, the God of the Bible is a tyrant, and Lucifer (the devil) came to rescue mankind from him. Even this dark view of God shows up in C.S. Lewis’ writings. After his wife Joy died, Lewis wrote “A Grief Observed,” a book describing his thoughts and emotional struggles as a result of her death. The dark Theosophical view of God shows up in this book, as shown in the following quotations. “Supposing the truth were ‘God always vivisects’?”

[7] “Is it rational to believe in a bad God? Anyway, in a God so bad as all that? The Cosmic Sadist, the spiteful imbecile?”[8] Lewis didn’t stay there. He vacillated between despair and hope. But in his moments of agony and despair, the Theosophical view of God came back to haunt him. There is another problem with his messages. I have read all of his books, and I do not recall any reference to the authority of God and to the timelessness of His ways. Lewis’ worldview seems to be based primarily on human feelings, wants and perceptions (including evolution and Freudian psychology). For example, in his last book, The Discarded Image, he tells us that nothing is permanent; everything changes -- along with human thought, wants, and speculations: "No Model is a catalogue of ultimate realities, and none is a mere fantasy. Each is a serious attempt to get in all the phenomena known at a given period.... But also, no less surely, each reflects the prevalent psychology of an age almost as much as it reflects the state of that age's knowledge...."[5, page 222] Lewis ends his book with this prediction: "It is not impossible that our own Model [for many of us, that refers to the Biblical worldview] will die a violent death, ruthlessly smashed by an unprovoked assault of new facts -- unprovoked as the nova of 1572. But I think it is more likely to change when, and because, far-reaching changes in the mental temper of our descendents demand that it should. The new Model will not be set up without evidence, but the evidence will turn up when the inner need for it becomes sufficiently great. It will be true evidence.'[5, pages 222-223] That unbiblical conclusion could easily wipe out any lasting Christian certainty in the minds of his readers! Now compare that personal and subjective speculation with actual certainties of the God who is the sovereign, all-knowing, Creator of all:

"...in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...." 1 Timothy 4:1

"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-8

"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body...." Philippians 3:20

1. Roger Lancelyn Green, “C.S. Lewis: A Biography,” Harcourt Inc., 1974, pages 274 and 30. 2. C.S. Lewis, Surprised by Joy, Harcourt Brace, 1955, pages 58-60. 3. C. S. Lewis, “That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy Tale for Grown Ups,” Collier Books, Macmillan Publishing Company, 1946, pp. 259 260. 4. “The Four Loves,” “Reflections on the Psalms,” and “A Grief Observed”. 5. Randy England, “The Unicorn in the Sanctuary: The Impact of the New Age on the Catholic Church,” TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., 1991, pages 70-72. 6. There are many editions of the book, and page numbering varies. This quotation comes from Book IV, Chapter 10, “Nice People or New Men,” the fourth paragraph. 7. C.S. Lewis, “A Grief Observed,” Bantam Books, The Seabury Press, 1963, p. 33. 8. Ibid., p. 35.


This and other articles can be found: http://www.crossroad.to/

G
ginnyrose Dec 18, 2010

I cannot speak with any authority on C.S. Lewis' writings. I have read some of "Mere Christianity". Because of the recommendation of other more literacy savvy folks we purchased the Narnia Chronicles for our children to read. I could never get into the books, found their imagery boring and unfathomable, suspecting I am just too dense to see into it.

In recent years there have been people who have sounded the alarm concerning Lewis' writings and now I am beginning to wonder if it was the LORD that prevented me from 'getting into it'.

Interesting article and thanks for posting.

ginnyrose

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HeartSong Dec 18, 2010

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Post removed because dspks fixed the problem. Thank you!

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HeartSong Dec 18, 2010

Isaiah 8:22 says that those that dabble in such things will be "driven to darkness." Daunting.

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mguldner Dec 19, 2010

I read the entire article in your skinny format :S. Good article this is just another thing that likes to blur the lines of good and evil. I have heard and seen so many Christian pick up the Harry Potter Series simply because Harry is a good witch and so can't be evil. I at one time was greatly mixed up in this thought, that as long as you used magic for good such as healing people you were fine. I would play video games with lots of magic content and have no actual conviction about this. Why? because my perspective of what God clearly says become overided by my personal thoughts rather what God says. Its dangerous because its in the grey area that many will disregard the Word because its "not bad"

K
KingJimmy Dec 19, 2010

Interesting thoughts. I have read some of Lewis's works, and have enjoyed them mostly because I recognize he has a profound writing ability. Though I have no shortage of disagreements with some of the things he says, I think one can still find some value in his writings, fiction and non-fiction alike. I think many are wrongly overly glowing in their evaluation of Lewis, and think many Evangelicals are so desperate for somebody with appeal and weight, that we will quickly baptize him as if he were one of us. But don't be mistaken, for all the wonderful things Lewis has said and written, he was definitely not an Evangelical, and his writings aren't without serious errors in them.

But with that said, we shouldn't be afraid of his writings, but as mature people we should read them, weigh them, and embrace the good, and reject the bad. From time to time, I think it is good for us to read things we know we will disagree with, as reading things that never cause us to think will keep our discernment dull.

Keep in mind that Daniel and his companions were forced to go through three years of the University of Babylon, as they were versed in all the wisdom and literature of the Chaldeans. They weren't exactly reading the Torah in that school. But they didn't allow the pagan things they read about and studied to impact who they were as a people living in exile. And being that they continued to be employed by the king after their days at the University of Babylon, it shows to me at least, they didn't show total disdain and scoff at what they read. I would be willing to bet they could have a full blown intellectual discussion about the literature they read about, and tell you what they liked and did not like-- even though it was 100% pagan.

...just some thoughts.

D
dspks Dec 19, 2010


Sip the Poison water to REALLY appreciate the PURE Water???


Daniel was FORCED into the "University of Babylon"...

No one is FORCING Christians to read C.S. Lewis' books.


Php 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

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HeartSong Dec 19, 2010

Personally I run into plenty of error in just day to day things and see no reason to go looking for it. And as for Daniel and his companions, they were forced - it was not something they chose. Now what Eve did was another matter - she chose the evil. God does not teach us so that we can have intellectual discussions, He teaches us so that our hearts will be changed - so that we will choose the good and reject the evil.

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mguldner Dec 19, 2010

Brother Jimmy do you eat food you know is poisonious just to see if maybe you might be immune to it?

Just a thought :)

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KingJimmy Dec 19, 2010


Sip the Poison water to REALLY appreciate the PURE Water???

Everything in this world is saturated with the poison of the world.



Daniel was FORCED into the "University of Babylon"...

No one is FORCING Christians to read C.S. Lewis' books.

The same man who refused to bow before the image of the king embraced the university education he received. Had Daniel a problem with reading the things he did, I'm quite sure he would've taken a stand against it.

D
dspks Dec 19, 2010

"Everything in this world is saturated with the poison of the world" R E A L L Y ? ? ?

"... the commandment if the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes." Ps 19:8

"...Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it." Ps 119:140

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dspks Dec 19, 2010

"Everything in this world is saturated with the poison of the world."

"unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure, but even their mind and conscience is defiled." Titus 1:15

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Areadymind Dec 19, 2010

I cannot speak with any authority on C.S. Lewis' writings.

I can speak with a reasonable amount of authority on Lewis, as I have read a great amount of what he wrote. Some of the things that he wrote will seem odd and bizarre when you do not understand that he was a professor of mid-evil history. His fiction writing was heavily influenced by his profession.

That being said, I agree with Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones that an intellectualized, philosophical approach to the faith is dangerous, Dr. Jones said that "some" people would be converted by C.S. Lewis to the faith, and I happen to be one of those people, during a very vulnerable point in my life, Lewis's books, "The Great Divorce," "Surprised by Joy," "Mere Christianity," and "The Pilgrims Regress," protected me from apostatizing from the faith. (His books did not give me faith mind you, they protected me from intellectual suicide which would have led me away from the faith.) Dr. Jones spoke this in his sermon series on Revival. Jones was rightly concerned that if we condensed christianity to Philosophy, then there would be no atmosphere in which the Holy Spirit could breath revival.

The third problem with Lewis is his Mysticism, or at least what I can honestly perceive as a leaning that way. But in all honesty, I am not convinced that Lewis had any agenda to introduce it into the faith. I think He was rather innocent in an ignorant sense. That sense being that he, along with a great many people who were damaged by the Humanism of the 1800's were lead to adapt scripture to fit with their time. There are many people who have done this type of thing. Dietrich Bonhoeffer is also an example. Many fundamentalists did the same. Many great men of God during the 1800's through the 1900's made a lot of compromises with the word. I believe many of them opened doors that if people opened the next door beyond the door they opened, the second "openers" could go down a road toward apostasy. It is a theological telephone game. This is why Ten Shekels and a shirt is such a popular Sermon. It resonates with many of our generation because we have seen the ripples that have been caused by many of these things.

However, I can still be blessed by many things these people said in their endeavors to make Christianity paletable to those who would repudiate it. I think their motives were pure, in spite of many unbiblical conclusions these kinds of people came to.

And this is my conclusion...It is not Lewis that bothers me. It is the people who build upon his foundation and walk through the next door he granted access to. I believe Lewis, for all intents and purposes built on the rock with some precious metals, but I also think that he built upon the rock with a significant amount of wood, hay and stubble. Now, if someone comes along and builds on top of the wood hay and stubble, with more wood hay and stubble, they end up with a "Shack..."

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KingJimmy Dec 19, 2010


"unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure, but even their mind and conscience is defiled." Titus 1:15

Including the writings of C.S. Lewis :-)

sermonindex Dec 19, 2010

Quite right, Jimmy.

I've been lurking around SI for years, though never registering to post. I suppose yet another ripping into poor C. S. Lewis was enough to make me do it.

With all due respect to the original poster and to the author of the article, I think the points made were weakly argued and give too little credit to well-meaning Christians who would read Lewis.

Quoting the article: "She goes through a spell book, and it is beautiful and fascinating. Then she finds the right spell and says the words and follows the instructions. And then the Dufflepuds (and Aslan) become visible. Her spell made Aslan visible, and he is pleased with what she did."

I think a point is missed here... Lewis is not promoting literal magic or the channeling of occult forces. Such is too literal a reading. The entire episode with the book is a moral lesson, with Lucy doing wrong with the book and experiencing sorrow for her wrongdoing. The poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge wrote of a necessary suspension of disbelief that must occur for one to enjoy fiction of any sort... I think all readers are aware of this suspension on some level - that the world of the book is not the real world. Narnia is a fantastical world (I say fantastical to differentiate it from the "swords & sorcery" image that is evoked by the word "fantasy") and I don't believe anyone can be accidentally deceived into occult experimentation through it.

Additionally, Lewis was writing in a literary manner, infusing his text with literary allusion and ideas which are metaphorical. To judge it based on a face-value literal reading is insufficient.

"In the world of C.S. Lewis’ day, this would not have caused practical problems. However, these days, kids can go to regular bookstores and buy spell books written by modern witches."

The occult has always been available to young people who would seek it.

Quote: "Many Christians are treating the Narnia books as being an allegory with Aslan representing Jesus and the children representing Christians."

Lewis was explicit in saying that this was not his intention. Can we blame the author if readers misunderstand?

Quote: "What will happen when Disney comes out with a movie of “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”? Christian kids may wind up feeling free to practice magic. And this could help break down the barrier between Christianity and Wicca. It could “Christianize” witchcraft in the eyes of some Christian kids. "

Are kids so easily deceived? If they are, it should not be hard for parents or role models to undeceive them. At least, such is my experience with my own kids and with the youth work I do. More troubling, I would argue, is the effect of a potentially "Christian-like" message being projected on a screen - we all have a way of filtering that content out of consideration. I think it a greater chance that any redemptive message, if there is one, in the Dawn Treader movie would be considered as obvious nonsense like the magic book.

Quote: “I had some ado to prevent Joy and myself from relapsing into Paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn’t feel it would have been very wrong”.

The words of a classical enthusiast on vacation. He's like an excited child. Cannot flexibility be granted for words he wrote to a friends who knew him and understood him?

Quote: "Lewis also said that “Christianity fulfilled paganism” and “paganism prefigured Christianity.”

But without giving any context, how can one be sure of how it was meant? To paste in a quote as evidence against him is not just.

Quote: "And Lewis developed a “lust” for the occult that remained with him even after he returned to Anglicanism"

And we all have our struggles, the temptations of the old flesh. Who doesn't?

Quote: "Note that Lewis said that he had trouble with that lust for the occult ever since his encounter with the Matron in his boys’ school. He wrote that statement in 1955. By then, he had written all but three of his books."

I wonder if the author of the article did any research into Lewis' biography and the potential sexual abuse that he, as a child, suffered from this woman. I am not making any simple assertions based on this, but I mean to suggest that there are complexities to his character, and unpleasant things that are passed over by Christian biographers of Lewis. He, however, did seek the healing and sanctification that was taught in the anglican tradition he was a part of. One cannot sum him up with a few sentences linking childhood suffering to misread stories for thinking adults.

Quote: "Lewis said that he was strongly influenced by George MacDonald, who was a universalist. MacDonald’s book “Lilith” is based on an occult teaching that Adam was married to a demon named Lilith before he married Eve. By the end of MacDonald’s book, Lilith is redeemed, and Adam says that even the devil will eventually be redeemed."

The charge of universalism against MacDonald is too simplistic. I am not defending MacDonald's ideas, but a universalist he was not. His theology cannot be ascertained by one literary novel. His sermons are complex and his ideas are deep... and they deserve better than such a summing up.

Let me be clear: I am no apologist for Lewis. I think most of his stories are not well written and his scholarship lacking in rigour (in his "Preface to Paradise Lost", a commentary on John Milton's epic poem, he manages to twist the text into a Christian reading that would satisfy many North American evangelicals). His apologetical works are more significant, in my opinion, but they are very much works of their time and place. How many dozens of threads on SI seem to condemn Lewis because his writings don't line up with a North American evangelical standard, or a revivalist standard of conduct? Lewis was an academic and an Anglican. His exploring of ideas fits into a British late-modernist phase of thought, which was significant in Britain in the years of the Depression, the War, and the post-war years.

I suppose I can sum up by saying this: the problem is not Lewis' writings... the problem, if there is one (which I doubt) is with evangelicals who cannot read critically. I am not suggesting that everyone should read Lewis just to understand the man or the literary history that is embodied by Aslan. I am suggesting that for the author of the article quoted in the original post to line up some context-weak facts about Lewis' life and create a case against his books is not right... it is unfair to Lewis and poorly done by the author.

Let those who want to read them read them and learn from the reading. Let those who do not want to read them not read them and benefit from abstention. Why cut the man down because he wasn't an revival-believing-evangelical from the 21st century? We all can do better than that.

Thanks for your time and patience,
aaron

sermonindex Dec 19, 2010

Quote: "And Lewis developed a “lust” for the occult that remained with him even after he returned to Anglicanism"

And we all have our struggles, the temptations of the old flesh. Who doesn't?

Hey Aaron, I'm with you there man. To condemn a man for such a statement would be to condemn myself. This area in particular has been my lifelong sort of struggle/temptation. This is mainly where I was saved from. At least he was honest for saying so. Each one of us is going to have a personal lust for a sin that we'll need to conquer through the Blood. It's no shame to say that such a struggle exists.

Most will never know this struggle and pull of the occult, just as there are many temptations for other believers that I will never know or understand. I'd imagine if everyone here were totally honest with themselves, they'd admit that they're no different in their own way, regarding statements such as these.

That's if we're being totally honest though...

C
castling Dec 19, 2010

Thanks Aaron for the post. I'm not a C.S. Lewis fan, but it's only God who is the final authority on Lewis' life.

sermonindex Dec 19, 2010

I don't see a big difference from the Narnia series and Harry Potter series. Both use mythical creatures, witchcraft and all sorts of paganism.

L
Lysa Dec 19, 2010


Dear Aaron,

Please do not stay away from this forum; we need your logic!

Lewis was explicit in saying that this was not his intention. Can we blame the author if readers misunderstand?

Your last sentence brought a smile and it could very well be applied to every thread on SI!!

God bless you and please do not stay away!

Lisa

sermonindex Dec 19, 2010


We had a professor over 30 yrs ago that was an old retired missionary and a Greek scholar, who died of malaria, about 20 yrs ago, on summer break during his annual visit to India, where he taught Greek to the Indian students while the rest of us enjoyed our summer breaks. He was in his 70's while both teaching at our college and going every summer to India.
He would take a whole semester just to teach just the first 18 verses of the Gospel of John from the Greek.
As intellectual as he was - he'd still get tears and would have to stop teaching for a moment, because of truths and love of GOD that would hit him, just from teaching from this Book - he also taught Romans and other books from the Greek. To see a somewhat serious man have to stop teaching for those few minutes, after teaching the same books every semester for countless years had quite the impact.

He said - "Some tell you to just 'eat the meat and spit out the bones' - but WHY - when you can have the finest filet and not risk the damage of even the tiniest of bones?"

A whole semester on just 18 verses of John 1 but that class could have gone on forever on just those 18 verses.

Most of us understand that we could never stand before the HOLINESS of GOD Himself and live - but yet we can taint the fact that He is as much TRUTH as He is HOLY.
He is HOLY, TRUTH & LOVE in equal proportions - yet we ourselves decide which proportions of which we will accept.

This is what makes us humans and why we need a True Revelation of the total nature of GOD.
We need to SEE Him, though this experience may feel it will close to kill us.

Many claim to have "seen Him" but unless they come from that "experience" with an awesome reverence for His Holiness, Truth & Love in equal measures - they've had a counterfeit experience - because His Nature cannot be unequally balanced. Using our own scales to measure out His Qualities as we will borders on blasphemy.

The fear of GOD is the beginning of wisdom for a reason.
No one can say that they speak for His Character unless they've seen Him in His fulness (as much as humanly possible).

To mix anything that is not 100% Holy & Truth to represent The Lion of the Tribe of Judah or any other representation of GOD our Savior is a fearful thing.
How far can be push allegory?
How far can we push "symbolism" in His Word?
Can we go so far as to say that the destroyers of humankind through taxation and resulting famine is Jesus riding a horse - when His Word says that He is returning to destroy those who are destroying the earth and it's inhabitants through these things?

If our hearts are not in fear for the babes in Christ - then our hearts are not in the Love of Christ & His Full Nature.
We are giving the OT equivlent of "mixed cloth" when we could be studying to show ourselves able to handle the WORD instead of going whichever way the wind blows to Keep them liking us (normally the case for compromising) which is Not the Love of Christ - it's just "self" wanting to be "liked".

Love speaks the Truth in Holiness.

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