I need help with the following:
I understand the gospel to be 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Yet Luke 9:6 says; And they departed and went through the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. Christ death and resurrection had not yet taken place.So what was the gospel they preached?
I believe it at this time to be:" The kingdom of God is at hands"
bohold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the long waited Messiah is now come.
It was the fulfillment of what Jesus read in Isaiah when the book was handed to Him.
The gospel they preached was the same gospel Jesus preached which they carried on even after Jesus resurrection. Paul and all the apostles and the followers of Jesus preached that:
the kingdom of God is coming to earth, and it's nearer now than ever. . . Jesus is the only way into becoming part of this kingdom, and until you repent (turn away from yourself)and be converted (follow God believing on Jesus Christ), you will never see God's kingdom.
*phaney nods his head agreeing with unto babes*
I’m going to get sidetracked a minute but please bear with me DesertRose....
I know there are a few out there in Christian land today who seek “signs” but please take notice that from Luke 9.6, no one then knew to seek signs. This is what happened... strange men came into town preaching and laying hands on the sick and then healing happens everywhere!!!
We say that they were part of the preaching the Gospel (Kingdom) of God... which it was but oh if we expect that today why are we accused of “seeking signs,” “running after signs,” etc.? Just saying.... Its looks to me like the two went hand in hand... preaching and healing.
Why isn’t that same gospel being preached today? Just wondering....
Lisa
We say that they were part of the preaching the Gospel (Kingdom) of God... which it was but oh if we expect that today why are we accused of “seeking signs,” “running after signs,” etc.? Just saying.... Its looks to me like the two went hand in hand... preaching and healing.
Why isn’t that same gospel being preached today? Just wondering....
Lisa
That same gospel is not being preached by most because they don't trust God to do like he has done. . .even though He says he never changes.
What a person really believes will be affirmed by their actions. These are the two aspects of faith(fulness) in God.
Just a guess?????
Maybe this is hardly ever seen because there has hardly ever been those who believe it. . .
. . .then again, Jesus could do no great miracle in His hometown because nobody believed what he said.
Thinking about the post-modern philosophic/materialistic/scientific meta-paradigm most third worlder's adhere to, it's obvious that without God's Spirit working in the hearts and lives of people "ain't nuttin' goin' on."
God's Spirit manifests and operates outwardly in the daily things when we deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus.
(Make it the only lifestyle and watch God work.)
Many times we see God confirms the preaching of His Word with VISIBLE signs and wonders following.
So if there are no VISIBLE signs and wonders following, what is being preached?
Check these things out:
Is what the preacher/teacher listened to encouraging that in Jesus Christ God has appointed you to go tell everyone about Jesus finished work towards it's end purpose?
Do they train (disciple) to do what Jesus says do?
Jesus did not just die for people, and he did not die so we can go to heaven.
Jesus died to legally take back ownership of everything existing in this time continuum that was stolen from Him just before we got ourselves kicked out of The Garden.
God's got this layaway plan in effect right now.
Not willing that any should perish, he's taking just a bit of time before he comes to take possession of His merchandise.
How ashamed will we all be when we, on that great day "knowing as we are known", realize what He had made us to be in this world right here right now?
Shalom,
gregg
Thought I'd recommend this message by John Piper entitled "Did Jesus preach the Gospel of evangelicalism?" wherein he responds to the criticism that modern evangelicalism's gospel presentation(s) is derived more from the teachings of Paul rather than of Jesus.
In short, Jesus' depiction of the kingdom in his sermons and parables IS what one of the receiving end of Justification should experience.
And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Hi DesertRose.......
Luk 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed,
Luk 4:19 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luk 4:20 And rolling up the book, returning it to the attendant, He sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
Luk 4:21 And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears.
Thank you for your input. It is encouraging to my soul to read scriptures of Christ's kingdom come to earth and the manifestation and mission of His kingdom as proclaimed from Isaiah in Luke 4. This by the way is one of my favorite Scriptures.
It is interesting that Christ was born into the chaotic kingdom of Herod's rule.The two kingdoms were in conflict right away as mentioned in Matthew 2:16.
I have learned that when I begin to question certain portions of scripture that I would have just read over without thinking, God is leading me into a deeper revelation of Himself.
I am thankful that I could present this question on this forum. You have been gracious to respond.
I am still digging deeper into the word to understand.
Thank you. I will listen.
Yeah Lisa. It is hard to ignore the pattern but it seems like it happened over and over. Preaching the kingdom of God followed by God healing and delivering the people.
Unfortunately many have adjusted their theology to fit their experience of few if any signs and wonders.Then you will be delivered up to the "Counsel" to explain yourself if you do get healed or something wonderful like that. (sorry)
We are surrounded by diseased, broken, tormented people. We have the "Bread of Heaven" / "Life" that will heal them. Healing and deliverance are "the children's bread" Matt 15:22-28.
Let's focus on the Father's business and feed the multitudes. Watch our God heal and deliver.
By the way, regeneration by the Holy Spirit, being born again, transformed into a new creation, may be the greatest sign and wonder of all. Thanks
Ruf
Jesus specifically gave His Apostles power over the unclean spirits enabling them to do the healing that they did when they did it while Jesus was still on earth. This was different from the power that the church would later exhibit even though the end results were the same
I say that because when they were healing before the crucifixion and resurrection consequently Holy Ghost had not yet been given. Still they were immature with this power as they were not ready to have it by themselves.
We know this to be true because when Jesus was not received by people the Apostles asked "should we bring fire down on them" but Jesus rebuked them (as He often did) and said to them "Ye know not what manner of spirit you are of" (Luke 9: 53-56)
Matthew 10:1
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mark 6:7
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
Still the fact remains that if the same gospel was being preached today that was preached during the first century we would see the same signs and wonders that the first century church did
Blessings
Doug
Our Father in Heaven brought me to a saving knowledge from sin through Jesus Christ when 14 years old. . .praise God!
If that eternal moment came about any later, there is no doubt in this mind that i would have far too much
SELF-dignity
and
SELF-respect
to step out just believing God's promises when i saw what He said do in His Word, and then taking it to the streets by His Spirit's leading.
Many times God has told me to lay hands on another in the name of Jesus and i never sensed anything. . .and neither did the person who was healed. Often, it's been after they have gone to the doctor and given a clean bill of health that they realized what happened that moment.
On the other hand, AFTER following His lead, many times there has been experienced a surge of His 'virtue'.
"For we walk by faith and not by sight" (II Cor. 5.7).
Some think you have to sense or in some way feel God's presence outwardly in order for Him to be present and active to work through us. This is stupid and foolish thinking.
What has been experienced is opposite to this notion.
We do what God says irregardless of anything else
and then we can know His manifest presence present and manifested:
"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal" (II Cor. 4.18).
Lesserlight wrote:
Jesus specifically gave His Apostles power over the unclean spirits enabling them to do the healing that they did when they did it while Jesus was still on earth. THIS WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE POWER THAT THE CHURCH WOULD LATER EXHIBIT (emphasis by Lisa)We know this to be true because...
God bless you,
Lisa
There is something about hearing instructions from the Almighty and speaking forth what we have heard and then signs follow.
Consider Moses, God instructed him to speak to Pharaoh the word of God and then signs followed.
Jesus spoke the word that God gave to Him and people were healed.
We can't take a dead letter and preach from that, we need to hear from God a clear word, a refreshing word that will ignite faith. God can take a scripture and open it wide open and pull out something we've never seen before and deliver a message that heals the soul and brings life to the hearer.
Jesus spent many a night up all night praying, obtaining instructions as to what God wanted for Him to do each and every day. "My meat is to do the will of my Father".
We need to hear from God.
Those old preachers wouldn't dare stand behind a pulpit until they heard from God. If they didn't hear a word from God they would sing a few hymns and send everyone home.
We need to hear from God.
In humble response, we DON’T know this to be true. There is not any Scripture that states the power God used before the upper room was any different than after the upper room. Not one disciple states anything differently either. I’m sorry but this is pure conjecture on your part and we must be careful adding our opinions to Scripture.
Pure conjecture on my part you say?........ You are way out of line!
Where are your witness for what you charge me with??????????
Jesus had all power over all flesh!!!!
John 17 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given
And he gave it to whomever he wanted to but there is a big difference between eternal life and power over all flesh
Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:
Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
All who have believed on Jesus and have received the Holy Ghost via the blessings of Pentecost have been given the power to become sons of God BUT THEY ARE NOT SONS OF GOD NEITHER DO THEY HAVE THE POWER OF A SON OF GOD!!!
Jesus gave the disciples the powers that he wanted them to have right straight from Him...... Amen?........ I think so
Your power to become a son of God is the Christ seed in you but seeds do not produce fruit......... Seeds properly taken care of and fed the correct food will become trees that if God willing can then produce the works and power of Jesus Christ.
Paul and the others were "born out of due time" that speaks of others yet to come that will walk in the same power that the Apostles did. However without one having the Mind of Christ like the Apostles one does not have the power of Christ and you have absolutely no scripture that proves differently because there are none
Had you PM'd me privately in accordance to Matt 18 I would have responded privately and helped you with what you you still need to learn.
However your charge of pure conjecture on my part is not only wrong but you have not taken the necessary steps of when you accuse someone of being in error to provide two or more witnesses in scripture is a sin ......let alone approach me privately as Jesus said in Matt 18 but just went right ahead with a public accusation of me conjuring up doctrines
Next time do your research first
Doug
Wow Doug! Calm down. The Holy Spirit is the One getting the Kingdom works done no matter how we slice it. amen
Ruf
By the way, regeneration by the Holy Spirit, being born again, transformed into a new creation, may be the greatest sign and wonder of all. Thanks
@rufnrust
I believe you hit the nail on the head! :) The things which are unseen are eternal and the things seen are temporal. Other miracles are indeed wonderful and to be desired, but this one is the most difficult, profound and has eternal consequences.
Hello Ruf
I am perfectly calm but as the scriptures say little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump.
The church is a lump that is in the condition that it is in because of the lack of truth and all the false doctrines that have been taught since the last of the Apostles were removed from the scene some 1900 years ago
However in an open forum there is going to be discussions between people not in agreement consequently God gave us ways for determining the truth that need to be adhered to so that in the end we may all become in one accord and in harmony with God.
Healthy discussions even in the face of dissent that reveal the truth can be laborious when they become repetitive but if in the end the unlearned become learned then there is a blessing and patience sees its perfect work.
However accusations of conjecturing up false doctrines is never to be an open discussion ...... at least not from the get until after a considerable amount of effort has been made to correct the person in error without any fruit coming forth.
Thinking that the apostles were/are no different than your status quo Christian baptized in the Holy Spirit is not just totally false doctrine but will prohibit the marriage between God and the church. Not that the christians have not been given a way to become as they were but first the truth has to be taught if sin is to be overcome.
Daniel prophesied of the time when the truth would start to be taught (Dan 12:3,4) just as Paul spoke of a time that when after the falling away there would be gathering that would come to worship in spirit and in truth......... that time is now.
I understand there is going to be dissent within discussion....... after all everyone has a send button on their computer.
However accusations need to be kept in check or the church will descend into anarchy. Unfortunately there are times when accusations are true but they need to be approached and handled in accordance to scripture.
Not only was my accuser wrong in her doctrine and in her accusation but did not even attempt to support anything she said by the Word of God that without respect persons holds everyone equally accountable.
That is one of the reason why we do not see people dropping dead in the church. However beware people are still dying because of false accusation of doctrines that are true........ I have seen that happen twice in the last five years alone and one of them had been a mentor of mine before he fell seriously in error before the Lord over an accusation of someone conjuring up false doctrines.
So it is not for Lysa's discomfort that she be corrected but for her benefit.
Blessings
Doug
Lesserlight,
Perhaps we are having a failure to communicate other over something else because I didn’t say anything negative about Jesus and his power because it is the same yesterday, today and forever...
What I said was pure conjecture on your part was here when you stated that the power was different:
THIS WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE POWER THAT THE CHURCH WOULD LATER EXHIBIT (emphasis by Lisa)
I know this could boil down to be a mere difference of opinion and even though I still stand by my first post, it truly was not my intention to wholly alienate you. Please forgive me.
God bless you, Doug,
Lisa
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